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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

THIS ONE ALMOST SLIPPED BY ME

By
Neal Boortz
@ February 9, 2010 9:05 AM
Permalink | Comments (44) | TrackBacks (0)

Why did Bernie Madoff go to prison? To make it simple, he talked people into investing with him. Trouble was, he didn't invest their money. As time rolled on he simply took the money from the new investors to pay off the old investors. Finally there were too many old investors and not enough money from new investors coming in to keep the payments going. Next thing you know Madoff is one of the most hated men in America and he is off to jail.

Some of you know this .. but not enough of you . Madoff did to his investors what the government has been doing to us for over 60 years with Social Security. There is no meaningful difference between the two schemes ... except that one was operated by a private individual who is now in jail, and the other is operated by politicians who enjoy perks, privileges and status in spite of their actions.

Do you need a side-by-side comparison here? Well here's a nifty little chart.

BERNIE MADOFFSOCIAL SECURITY
Takes money from investors with the promise that the money will be invested and made available to them laterTakes money from wage earners with the promise that the money will be invested in a "Trust Fund" and made available later.
Instead of investing the money Madoff spends it on nice homes in the Hamptons and yachts.Instead of depositing money in a Trust Fund the politicians use it for general spending and vote buying.
When the time comes to pay the investors back Madoff simply uses some of the new funds from newer investors to pay back the older investors.When benefits for older investors become due the politicians pay them with money taken from younger and newer wage earners to pay the geezers.
When Madoff's scheme is discovered all hell breaks loose. New investors won't give him any more cash.When Social Security runs out of money they simply force the taxpayers to send them some more.
Bernie Madoff is in jail.Politicians remain in Washington.

Now that was just spectacular. I'm guessing nobody has managed to present this situation to you with such crystal clarity before. Must be the SAM-e.

OK ... I've understood this scheme for some time now, so just what was it that almost slipped by me? For some time now we've been told that it would be 2016 or 2017 before Social Security started paying out more money than it was taking in. Well ... we're here. In 2009 the economy forced many more people than expected into retirement. These people filed for their Social Security benefits. Last year Social Security durned near ran out of money. The benefits paid almost exceeded the taxes collected. There is, of course, no "trust fund" to go to. That money has been spent. For Madoff that was a crime. For our politicians, it wasn't. Now the chief actuary of the Social Security system says that we're going to "go negative" for the next year or two.

Now the politicians will naturally be looking for a solution. They cause the problem because they just couldn't stand seeing all of that money sitting in the trust fund. They just had to get their hands on it ... and leave behind some IOUs. Now the IOUs are due, and there's no money to pay them off. The solution? Well, they'll probably have to raise the retirement age. Then they may well introduce means testing. They'll tell retiring seniors who have done well with their own retirement plans that they may well lose their Social Security benefits. Can they do that? Oh hell yes they can. There is no federal law which guarantees Social Security benefits to anyone who has been forced to pay the taxes.

Then, of course, they'll try to raise the Social Security taxes. The earnings cap for this year is $106,800. My best guess is that the Democrats will propose a change in the law that allows the current earnings cap to stay, or to possibly adjust it to $100,000. Then they will give all income between $100,000 and $250,000 a year a pass .. then all incomes above $250,000 a year will be taxed with no further caps.

Wunnerful wunnerful.



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What others are saying

  • The difference is...
    Madoff would never build a highway or pay a soldier or teach a child with that money. The government does. The government gets a lot of things wrong, but providing Social Security to our elderly population is not criminal.
  • Neal is wrong to make this comparison. SS is much worse!
    Madoff should be insulted to have his perfectly good illegal financial scheme compared to Social Security! Unlike Ponzi schemes, SS has no legal obligation whatsoever to pay out benefits and there is no trust fund or insurance obligations of any kind related to SS. When there were, in the original act, the Supreme court rejected the act because it did not comply to trust or insurance law in its regulation. The solution, remove all trust or insurance obligations! SS is a tax and the government can do anything they want with the money, BY LAW! Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.
  • Social Security & Madoff
    There is a different between the two. With Madoff you have an option to invest, with Social Security, it's force.. Please people, why even complaint about something that we "THE PEOPLE" could nip it in the butt like the health care bill. It's because maybe our grandparents, the disability, or whom ever is depending on this money is making some of us not to do anything about it.
  • Social Security & Madoff
    The parallelism illustrated between Social Security and the Madoff methods are correct. However, anyone currently having Social Security payroll deductions should not count on being paid back at any future time. This is the appropriate opportunity to invest in your own IRA's, 401 K's and other various types of retirement investments intended to produce future retirement income. Do this now. Social Security may not be there for you when you are ready to retire regardless when. I say this since I am a Federal Civil Service Retiree and am pleased so far. However, I have no invested funds in Social Security or other such retirement investment plans. Did I make a mistake? I do not know and hope not.
  • Soc.Sec.
    Social Security is a 'Cesta Qui" trust. There is no 'promise to pay'
  • Social Security - Madoff
    Contact your social security office and ask them if you are required by law to have a social security number. You will be told as I have that social security is a voluntary program!

    At that time you will start asking the questions: How do I get a job? What about retirement? Wait I minute I was told I HAVE to have a number, etc.

    In researching the answers and over time I suggest that you will begin to WAKE UP as I have. We have been lied to. You can live without a social security even though the lifestyle may be inconvenient.
  • Social Security
    Social Security was and is a bad idea. Even if the system put the money in a trust for all these years and didn't touch it, the government would be in control of all that capital (that would border on socialism). I don't know what would be worse, government in charge of investing the trillions of Social Security dollars, or having Social Security as a ponzie scheme.
  • SS vs Madoffs ponzie scheme
    Viola! This comparison has managed to
    slip by all too many people. The government is running the most monstrous
    ponzie scheme ever contrived by anyone.
    And all of them should have to pay it back out of personal funds or maybe support one retiree each for the money the they squanderd on ear marks, bribes
    and bought and paid for voting blocks
    ie special interest groups, lobbyiste etc.
    We worked and sacrificed for decades and
    one would think that there would he something left for us to draw. No, theyve been playing to special interest
    groups through entitlements, bribery,
    ear marks all to keep themselvess in office at our cost. I say throw them
    all out...give someone else try...if they dont tow the mark...poof! Times are a changin. Our fuses are burned out.
  • Your SS issued serial number. (Which FDR promised would only be used for collection and disbursement of SS funds) also created the problem of identity theft.
  • Putting Stay At Home Moms Back to Work
    As a stay at home mom with 2 kids that I homeschool, I'm targeted with all sorts of ads on the internet telling me Obama wants me to go back to school (I already have a Bachelor's degree), so I can go back to work. It is all so I can support those with SS. Can't believe I didn't figure that out earlier.

    I have not paid enough into the SS to get retirement. I'm certainly not counting on my husband's check when he retires or if something happened to him. C'mon, that is why we have other options in place.
  • Great Piece, of crap!
    Of course, as you clearly did not know, Social Security was never set up as "Trust Fund." That is a historical fallacy. It was always pay as you go...ALWAYS. It was a social contract from one generation to the next. The older generations makes our country better and we pay so they do not have to live in abject poverty. Seems like a a great idea except your generation FAILED us and left us with crap. So Thanks! Don't worry we will still live up to our end of the deal. And for the record your "table" would work for insurance companies perfectly, so why don't you right about that, or is corporate ponzy schemes the "spirit of capitalism?"
  • I want out of SS
    I would like to propose to the government that I want to opt out of SS. They can keep all of the money I've already put in, I don't want a cent back when I retire or become disabled. They can keep taking my employer's contribution and waste it any way they see fit. Just stop taking my contribution and let me invest it on my own. If such a system was to be enacted, how many people would go for it? I'm sure any intelligent person my age (44) and younger would like this option.
  • Class Action Lawsuit
    Would there be any support for a class action lawsuit against these clowns? Is there a way to track where all of this money was spent and by whom? Who is accountable? Would anyone reading this support a lawsuit like that? I think this is a very serious dispicable thing that has occured. If everyone knows about this and everyone is aware of the abuse by Congress in relation to SS and Medicare, why are we only complaining? We stopped the monstrous healthcare bill by holding these politicians responsible for thier actions and support of that debt-ridden idea. Why can't we hold these same politicians accountable for thier actions with the PEOPLE'S SS money! Would or DO I have any support with a lawsuit, or is this just one more thing about the government to complain about?!?!?!
  • What??
    Talk about a thankless, useless job: "chief actuary of the Social Security system." It doesn't take an actuary to realize that we took in this much, and we paid out that much. And we already have enough people at CATO, Heritage and other think tanks running the unfunded liabilities numbers.

    It is on this single issue alone that Washington should be shut down.
  • You ssi
    well yes different is people who need cause of accidents n gettin bad knees for bein very fat (i hate that) But it happen doctor did best i got ssi for get stuff done i not size of 6 people now i at 356pds from500+.....But we need a ssi raise to n a nice ssi bonus check of 500.00 for people are disabled n can't work anymore!Please no bad remarks of me
  • I knew they would run out of money before they publicly predicted.
    They always do, and they knew it would too. Their projections were based on continuous and robust growth, with expenses minimized and no leeway for economic downturns. That’s a big reason why they’re so hot to take over health care.

    Like the financial collapse, someone tried to head off the social security collapse and was vilified for it as well. He was called an alarmist, and fear monger, there was no problem the dp assured us, and even if there were, there was plenty of time to fix it. The dp got their way and they'll just blame the resulting mess on President Bush as well.
  • Above the law
    So what you are saying is that since Congress is making the laws, they are above them? How can we ever hold anyone accountable? Can't I go to jail if I refuse to waste my retirement Money with the government mandates? I'm accountable, but they aren't? What is this? How do we change this? Elect more lying lying low-life hypocrites to represent me?
  • Wow....
    People, you should not be demonizing the elderly for this. I am 50 years old, and I have paid OVER $330,000 in SS taxes. That is no joke. If I had invested that money, I would have close to $2 million to retire on. Instead, I have my own 401k and a check from the government coming when I retire.

    Why would you demonize someone for actually wanting a little of their money back?

    I'll give you an example of the real problem: My ex-Mother in law was married to a man who worked a few years... long enough to get SS.. and no more. He died at age 49, and she has lived off of his SS for the last 40 years. By my estimation, she has received about a half million more dollars than she ever paid in. Multiply this times millions around the country.

    I know many people who worked all their lives and paid into the system, and now they depend on that income. We cannot take it away from them now... it is too late and would leave them destitute. It is not their fault.

    There are no easy answers to this. Those of us who saved money will be punished (just like our children are when trying to get financial aid for college). Those who have never contributed much should get less... but that will never happen. There should be a maximum amount that the SS will pay over a lifetime... a single person should not be able to suck a half million dollars out of the system without ever being a productive member of society.
  • Politicians simply did our bidding.
    Sorry, but the politicians are not to blame - the people are. We have known they have been raiding the funds to finance various programs, yet we allowed them to do so because we wanted the programs.

    This is no different than a person who raids their 401K for a trip to Jamaica, then complains when the balance in the 401K is zero. The person wanted the trip, and used retirement funds to provide it.

    The people who now see their social security being taken away deserve nothing. If the program is bankrupt, so be it. They thought they could get their retirement supplement and the government programs that were bought with the funds, but now the cold reality is looking them in the face.

    Tough luck geezers, you should have had more responsibility in the voting booth.
  • Tax dollars at work
    Two and a half trillion dollars at 5% that is what the government-U.S. tax payers owe social security. We have Greenspan in 1983 during the Reagan years to thank. Maybe the Chinese will buy some more U. S. Government bonds to keep this entitlement solvent so that the ever increasing retired population will continue to buy their products.

    Wow, what a great idea, the democrats with their health care proposal would collect tax dollars for three or four years before payouts to the program would begin. Wonder if these tax dollars would be placed into the general fund to be spent immediately or would they be used as an accounting gimmick to make the annual debt look like it is decreasing before the next election?
  • Would old people really be living on cat food without SSI? Or are people capable of providing for themselves? Why did we stop expecting them to? The number one correlator of wealth in the USA is age. I say we just stop withholding the taxes and stop printing the checks. Right now. Cold turkey.
  • wealth envy
    i think neal's got his own wealth envy by negating how much wealth Bernie Madoff accumulated. what's the difference in Bernie Madoff stealing from his investors and the wall street banks stealing from us?
  • What Gov owes social security
    Just how much would the Government be required to pay back if Social security was paid for all the IOU's. Anybody, Anybody?
  • And so it begins....
    And now, in 2010, both SS and Medicare cost more than is brought into those systems. It was predicted decades in advance, and ignored. The Democrats have never tried to do anything at all, other than raise taxes, to secure the system (in this case, they have been the party of "NO", with absolutely no other ideas other than "raise taxes"). As the article points out, raising taxes will not work as it will cause other systemic problems in the economy. On this point, the Republicans can say "I told you so".


    In just a few years, it will become self evident why
    1) no new entitlement programs, including ObamaCare
    2) no protracted military involvements unless we are directly and continuously under attack by some faction. Even 9/11 is not enough to spend a trillion dollars in 10 years.
    3) time to stop subsidizing NATO defenses. make the EU pay their part.
    4) it's time the cost of war comes out of the military's 700 billion dollar budget. That is about 20 time any other country's defense spending.

    Things need to happen and need to happen NOW in order to stop this from getting too far out of control. Unfortunately, I don't think Obama and the Democrats can get it done.
  • SS is real, and if you believe that...
    A democrat told me that his SS account is real because he gets a statement every year showing the balance.
    A couple other things the same guy said are that he wanted to pay more taxes, therefore, he would be rich, and that President Clinton paid off the entire national debt.
    By similarly following his logic WW III was prevented by Monica Lewinsky.
  • trust me I'll take care of it............
    MR. HILL.......your ss money is safe with me......I got my eye on a nice bass boat......
  • And this is why....
    I don't use stock brokers and if I had half a chance, I'd get out of Social Security. I will never get out of it what I paid into it.

    Safe solid annuities, diversified 401K plans, IRAs, whole life and a little gold is all anyone needs- and not all with the same people. SS is already a loss, and I don't count on it being there when I retire. As an old friend taught me, it is a poor rat that has but one hole!
  • the only difference between bernie and the fed is...
    bernie broke the law and the gov. IS the law. IT'S NOT CHEATING IF YOU MAKE THE RULES. The only way to succeed at a ponzi scheme is to out live all your investors,hence the introduction of OBAMA-CARE,to kill off investors.(granted this is not the main reason for Obama-care,just one of the many fringe benefits)
  • Perfect Ponzi Scheme
    If you ever want to start your own Madoff style Ponzi scheme, then you need to find some gullable customers.

    I suggest calling your local Democrat party office and telling them you have an opportunity to invest in a "business" designed with the same structural rigor as the Social Security Administration.

    I assume DEM customers will line up around the block.
  • Yes, people had a choice to invest with Bernie...
    ...but they felt secure in the knowledge that there were "government regulations" in place to prevent what he did. They felt they didn't have to pay attention. A false sense of security is worse than none at all.
  • SS
    You can also ad Medicare to the government's list of Ponzi Schemes.
  • Well said, Neal
    It's very sad that the majority of this country will not accept the ugly truth about SS.

    Thank you, Franklin Delano Roosevelt for
    decades of allowing government to use deadly force on us to take our money to invest in something that was supposed to help us in retirement, but yet it helps the politicians put money in their voting boxes.

    Oh, can't forget about the countless ID thefts that can occur through those SS ID numbers.

    /sarc= "I feel so safe and secure every day knowing that Government is doing their job in providing for me, from cradle to grave. I can't imagine how my life will be without them."

    This is what "fake" politicians love: more citizens who are uninformed about their aganda, and more citizens trusting them all the way.

    BTW: I'm under retirement age. I won't be surprised if I don't get any SS money back.
  • If gummit does it its okay...
    Hey, Gov't does lotteries... if you or I held a lottery, we'd be busted.

    Just like ol' Bernie Madoff.

    BTW is "stephanie @ 02/09/10 09:34:53" (see post below) the voice of the Pot-Hole Girl?
  • suprized???????????
    how can any of ya'll be shocked or awed...you knew it was happenin'.....oh yeah!!!!!

    you kept the same scumsuckin'politician werkin' a'gin ya...dumbass..politicians are scum....or did you think your guy was ok and all the rest were the problem?????

    JONNY......baaa baah baaaa baah baaaah.......dumbass....
  • Neal's Quote Above
    Look no further than the quote from Bastiat at the top of the Newz page. It says it all.
  • Stephanie
    I wouldn't so much call it naive, as maybe just unprejudiced by the bull we've all been exposed to for decades.

    Keep your eyes open and question everything anyone tells you.
  • Bernie Madoff
    Bernie Madoff needs to be the head of the Social Security System instead of in jail...

    Who else is better qualified to run a Ponzi scheme? No One!
  • Rich White Folk...
    It ain't fair that if you be rich white folk, you get ss. if you got means to live, why you need ss? insted we need to suppor black folk who can't afford to save for retirement. They deserve a retirement too for workin so hard their whole life. They worked hard under the previous administration, only to be used by Bush. Bush didn't care about them, just takin their money so they couldn't save for retirment. All cause Bush don't like black folk. Instead he made money for his cronies. It all his fault!
  • SSI
    Let's not forget that if you own a business and "offer a SSI type retirement plan" you will shortly be in jail for perpetrating a "Ponzi Scheme". Don't do as I do do as I say.
  • One is optional, one is at the point of a gun...
    Another glaring difference is that Madoffs investors chose to invest with Madoff. They had choices available to them. The government takes our money at the point of a gun, by force. We have no choice with the Government. Imagine how much angrier people would have been if they would have been forced by someone to invest with Madoff. The Governments crime is much worse, and the punishment for these Government hacks should be worse.
  • Social Security
    Right on about the social security. a giant ponzi scheme at its best!! Add to the government's logic, the ramming down the American's throat for national healthcare whereby limit services are given to elderly, etc. with many dying...hence, they will not draw on social security when dead nor add to the depletion of what was left after government raided it. i BELIEVE there is a grand scheme that deliberately destroying the workforce, few income taxes, national healthcare and Obama and democrats have the nation where they want it.......below 3rd World status.
  • One major difference
    With Madoff, investors had a choice whether or not to invest their money with him.

    With the government, you have no choice.
  • And that's not all!!
    If any private corp ran its business like the government does, the top execs would be in prison, people would be screaming for blood, and NO ONE would invest in that company. They'd be criminally negligent and in jail....

    And yet, because it's government, many people are ok with it...

    I'm not just talking about Social Security. I'm talking about all the "accounting gimmicks" they use, their utter lack of fiduciary responsibility handling taxpayer money, the backroom deals (bribes)...the list goes on. No private corporation would ever be allowed to run it's business this way legally!!!

    But, amazingly, there are still many idiots out there (ie-- NOTW). Unbelievable!!

    What's even more funny is how upset everyone is over the banker bonuses...but have NO PROBLEM handing over their money to these criminals in congress!
  • I am as smart as I thought!
    I've been wondering what the difference is between what the government does and what Madoff did! I am the first to admit I don't understand politics, policies, economics and how the world works according to Washington. I've been told since high school with the first Bush that there will be no Social Security for my generation, and when Bernie made the news, it got me to thinking "well, what's the difference between what he did and what politicians do? Isn't SS just some big Ponzi scheme?"

    "nononononononononoooooo- well, kinda....but it's legal" is the answer I get from family, friends, people I consider in the know (ie, understanding things like, math, politics, taxes, regulations- you know- hard stuff.)

    I know sometimes my questions seem naive, but dang. That's the best way to look at things sometimes.
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