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Today's Nuze

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOUR RETIREMENT

By
Neal Boortz
@ February 3, 2010 8:51 AM
Permalink | Comments (113) | TrackBacks (0)

I've been telling you about this for a while now. This, to me, is one of the most dangerous schemes currently slithering through the crevices and dark spots of the Imperial Federal Government in Washington. What am I talking about? What I believe to be plans by the Obama administration to, in effect, seize your retirement funds and use them to finance their deficit spending. Remember ... there are more than $3 trillion dollars sitting out there in individual retirement, IRA and 401K plans. Politicians just cant stand the idea of this much money sitting out there in private investments ... out of the grasp of politicians. So .... Something needs to be done. And sure enough, something is going to be done. The Treasury Department and the Department of Labor were going to start taking comments on ways to promote the idea converting 401(k) savings and IRAs into annuities or other steady payment streams. Well you can finally take a look at this document for yourself:

Request for Information Regarding Lifetime Income Options for Participants and

Beneficiaries in Retirement Plans

Here, I'll post a little to get you started:

The Department of Labor and the Department of the Treasury (the "Agencies") are currently reviewing the rules under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) and the plan qualification rules under the Internal Revenue Code (Code) to determine whether, and, if so, how, the Agencies could or should enhance, by regulation or otherwise, the retirement security of participants in employer-sponsored retirement plans and in individual retirement arrangements (IRAs) by facilitating access to, and use of, lifetime income or other arrangements designed to provide a lifetime stream of income after retirement. The purpose of this request for information is to solicit views, suggestions and comments from plan participants, employers and other plan sponsors, plan service providers, and members of the financial community, as well as the general public, on this important issue.

That's a lot of government-speak. Can you read between the lines? What is the real plan here? Behind this nonsense about "lifetime stream of income after retirement" language is a lovely little plan to force you to finance the Democrat's deficit spending. The plan is to play into the current economic fears. "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Remember the words of Rahm? The Democrats want you to question whether or not Wall Street is the right place to invest your money. Wouldn't you be safer if the government kept it for you? The government wants you to believe that it can do a better job of investing and managing your retirement than you can. And for a lot of people who believe that government is the answer, they may fine with this. It's not fine with me, and, I suspect, it's not all that fine with you.

Don't believe me? Here is how these agencies present their reasoning:

Accordingly, with the continuing trend away from traditional defined benefit plans to 401(k) defined contribution plans and hybrid plans ... employees are not only increasingly responsible for the adequacy of their savings at the time of retirement, but also for ensuring that their savings last throughout their retirement years ... In recognition of the foregoing, the Agencies are considering whether it would be appropriate for them to take future steps to facilitate access to, and use of, lifetime income or other arrangements designed to provide a stream of income after retirement.

Here is one of the questions asked in this document from the Treasury Department and the Department of Labor:

13. Should some form of lifetime income distribution option be required for defined contribution plans (in addition to money purchase pension plans)? If so, should that option be the default distribution option, and should it apply to the entire account balance? To what extent would such a requirement encourage or discourage plan sponsorship?

Okay, what is this question really asking? First, it wants to know if the government should FORCE you to contribute money to an income distribution option. Then the second part of the question wants to know if this should be the standard retirement option, unless you choose to also put your money elsewhere.

OK .. I'm a little disjointed here. Let me try to wrap up all of this up in one neat package.

Obama's budget is setting records in deficit spending. Obama is proposing borrowing every close to the amount of money that the Republicans borrowed in a single year .. but Obama is proposing borrowing that sum EVERY SINGLE MONTH throughout his term of office and beyond.

Earlier this week I told you of a story from the investment press which stated that investors now look at blue chip stocks like Coca Cola as better and safer investments than U.S. Government treasury certificates. China has signaled that it is not in the mood to buy many more U.S. government securities. This is how we finance our debt! If investors and other nations won't voluntary finance our debt, what does our government do? Well, our government does what governments always do. Fall back on its unique ability to use force to accomplish its goals. There's a problem here. We aren't going to force China to buy more Treasuries ... so where is the force to be applied? YOU, that's where.

The government is talking about some form of "lifetime income distribution" and "lifetime stream of income." (Isn't this what Social Security was supposed to do?) But just HOW does the government provide this "lifetime" income? Simple ... by FORCING you to take all or a portion of your retirement funds and invest them where China won't go; invest them where private international investors no longer want to go; invest them in Treasury Certificates. Oh yeah ... they'll probably come up with some fancy new name for some fancy new type of T-bill ... but the goal and the effect will be the same. You'll see your money seized by government and used to finance the insane spending plans of politicians .. Democrat and Republican.

Stay alert folks. The government has wonderful ways to couch this in language that seams harmless and innocuous. It's a money-grab. Nothing less.



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What others are saying

  • The government wants more than your retirement ...
    It’s worse than retirement. The government is currently defending a case in a federal court in Iowa and contends that Americans have no rights about what they want to eat or what they eat. Incredible? Conspiracy theory? No, it’s true …

    Why the federal government wants to control what you eat

    http://www.helium.com/items/1833311-why-the-federal-government-wants-to-control-what-you-eat
  • EDITED, TOTALLY CLEAN!
    Regardless which theory, Premise, Discussion, Situation, or Scenario one decides to entertain a "belief in" (or how many, which combo is the fav' rav'...) ONLY the most naieve or most retarded of an Ostriche would stake themselves to a claim that at this point, "everything is just amplified scare tactics".

    I do my best to remain 'grounded' to stay 'calm' and 'reasonable'...

    There is NO FREEKING PLACE LEFT FOR MY BUTT to "GO" - should my "LOGICAL and PRACTICLE" side prove rediculously juvinile - and this entire TITANIC breeches, splinters, and tanks; dragging all souls downward with only the warnings which have thus far been sounded.

    I am MYSELF - "AT THE MERCY" of the good graces and decency of a HUMANITY that IS TURNING ever more and more "self survivalist" - even as I TYPE.

    As a parapalegic (complete with "chair"), I AM NOW (have been for some time) at the MERCY of my very own BRETHEREN (SCARY PIC THAT, EH!)

    There IS STILL A RELIEF VALVE to this "Pressure Cooker" - for which to adjust the building explosive forces / cut back those pressures and REMAIN SANE / ATTENTIVE to HUMANITY / and be KIND to one another.

    So a few billion will have to take a powder for this sphere to feed, clothe, and supply the rest - so long as it is a QUALITY CROWD here as the "REST that are LEFT" - MY HAND is ALREADY up in the air - to GIVE UP my future air!

    I would O N L Y "just ask for that ending to be "MY CHOICE" - and I believe MANY MANY MANY more would step up too; just don't make our demise "a mandate" - 'cause - SHOULD BIG BRO go n make that descizzz - why then... I'ma just have to go head on and take a few you bad attitude types out with me; digg.

    BEST CHOICES, best chances; please - for GOD'S SAKE - think on the options with all due dilligence and make INTELLIGENT QUALITY "CHOICES" and not evil - POLITICALLY MINDED, "acceptance in consequence.

    That's my story - I rarely have ever gotten involved with my "OPINION; but feel free to quote me or look my wheelchair ridin butt up to run for Government on the "JUST A FREEKIN GUY" ticket.

    Our NATION of a REPUBLIC filled with quality citizens; well... It has downsized and downgraded into a clusterfrack of idiotic and selfish PIGS; if this is "ACTUALLY WHAT BEING AN AMERICAN" stands for NOWADAYS - I'ma stinkin' OUT bro... This is just tooooo EMBARRASSING!

    As my D.I. kept screamin back in BOOT - circa 1981 - "DO SOMETHIN - EVEN IF IT'S WRONG"!

    Just Lead, Follow, or get the hell out the road.

    gypsy
  • The only thing a politician under stands are the polls and negative vote that hamper his or her career.

    Vote them out.
    By 45 LL @ 02/24/10 02:15:57 PM


    Really?

    The only thing that government understands is the threat of violence and state sanctioned homicide. It has an absolute monopoly on it.

    After all, if it didn't, would you pay your "fair share" in taxes?
  • 401K
    Touch my 401K?? I guess I'll just have to touch back!!
  • 401kIRA
    Well it just goes to show you that our government "allows" us to keep our private and personal property through their own grace. After the fed started to take private property for corporate use, did anybody else think to themselves that if the government can take our land for private use, they can take anything!
  • 401K & IRA
    All those folks that voted for change and promises of a utopian society, this how obama is going to pay for it. Guaranteed members of the U.S. House and U.S. Senate will be exempt from this shared wealth scheme.
    The best way to keep your money safe is shoe boxes and mason jars.

    The only thing a politician under stands are the polls and negative vote that hamper his or her career.

    Vote them out.
  • 401K's, IRA's
    Why is no one else bringing this to people's attn.? There should be petitions across the country on this!So let's get going!
  • Does anyone know where we can put our retirement investments in?? so the government can not get it? If we withdrawl before the age of 59 1/2; we get big penalty?????
    We have 401k and pension.
  • 401K's, IRA
    Pres BO, Nancy P and the rest of you half *#^ed !&*% heads in DC, keep your *&#@ing hands off my money, or you'll draw back a stump.
  • 401k and IRA
    Federal Government wants suggestions:
    Here's mine - Keep your *&^*&^)% hands off my retirement funds and your (*) ^%( nose out of my life.
    Thank you; I really am a kind, gentle, older lady, but these politicians are starting to get my dander up.
  • Obamanomics
    1. Take your money and replace it with a T-Bill which is just a Government IOU.

    2. "You and I" are the source of ALL government funds.

    3. Therefore, your savings are replaced with a You-Owe-You.

    Pure Theft
  • Retirement
    This does it. From now on, I am keeping my retirement money in cash wrapped in tin foil in the freezer under the frozen peas. I may not be getting interest but at least I know where my money is and I can spend it if I need to.
  • Gov't THEFT
    There's trillions in IRA's, privately owned. This bunch of thieves will never rest until they control it all.......for our own good, of course.

    And how long until they decide that like SS, when you die what's left goes to the state? I mean, it's not like your kids put any of THEIR money in.

    And the next logical step is that it's not fair that some people in the system get a bigger check than others, so payments are 'equalized'.

    And of course, all those poor folks who aren't "winners in life's lottery" aren't getting any payments, can't have that now, can we? So let's not exclude our less fortunate. After all, those with the IRA's in the first place already have so much, they really don't need any extra.

    And don't forget the undocumented workers, oppressed by us selfish rich white folks. They deserve their share of our, er, their American dream.

    From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. Can't seem to place where I've heard that before.....................
  • IRA Annuities
    I know that even paranoids have enemies, but some paranoids are just crazy. How does one leap from facilitate to force, or from option to confiscation? How does one conclude that a government option is the only form of annuity that might be allowed. Many financial planners recommend annuitization of some percentage of one's retirement nest egg to shift the investment risk away from the retiree? What's wrong with that? Take a deep breath, Neal, and work on other issues.
  • regulations..?
    you need an agency to follow up on enforcing regulations, good luck..the fees will only exist as an excuse to demand more cash.trust me, cash out and buy a shiny new safe at the rate they are seeking to tax us it will end up costing you money to invest .
  • "Orange" you glad
    Sure, just sit back and wait for them to screw up before saying anything.

    If they start performing more regulations in this area, the fees will sky rocket. They need to stay out of it. All of the "benefit statements" mentioned in this are readily available anyway, you just have to ask for them. Or get a new account manager.
  • @CD
    Convenient, as I am done playing with someone who doesn't know the meaning of 'hypocrisy'.
  • @Joshua
    You word play doesn't impress me. I'm done playing with someone who doesn't see their own hypocrisy. Good luck with that.
  • @CD
    It isn't possible that I proved your point, as it is obvious that you had no point.
  • @Joyce
    Neal is saying this document proves that the Government wants to seize the funds in you IRA and force you into some sort of steady payment option. Even a cursory reading of the document shows that it says nothing of the kind.

    The document is discussing steps that could be taken to facilitate access to annuity type income streams, and one suggestion is to require defined-contribution plans to offer a lifetime income distribution option.

    Maybe such an option would be screwed up in the future, maybe the government will try to use it to seize your retirement, and maybe a wizard will turn me into an orange. Any of those things *may* happen, but to say that document is proof of any of them is just silly.
  • Cause for concern but don't go Tilting at Windmills
    Before I went down to dust off my pitchfork I actually read these docs. This is not a government plot to again pick your pocket. Yet it is about government thinking it should tuck you in at night and read you a bedtime story.

    Because of the increased availability of lump sum payouts from retirement plans, our compassionate government is alarmed that, (and I quote) "retirees will face greater responsibility and choices for managing their pension and other assets at and throughout retirement." (Gee, they say that like responsibility and choice are bad things).

    Simply put: should retirement plans be required to offer an annuitized payout option for your accumulated retirement savings? (Ooh look; ‘required’ and ‘option’ in the same sentence - read carefully)

    It's an option, as in: You have an option to contribute to an IRA. Don't confuse it with voluntary as in: Our income tax system is voluntary.

    Watch agencies vie for the role of guidance counselor and rule maker. That is enough to be worried about.
  • Retirement
    Can anyone say R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N???
  • @Joshua
    You just proved my point....thanks!!
  • It's called the Automatic IRA
    It's even more ominous that you are stating, Neal. Because the start of it is already in Obama's budget proposal. It is called the Automatic IRA. This is the same approach as the income tax withholding system. Here is the scenario as I see it with the Automatic IRA. First, it is currently proposed as an opt-out plan. That is, everyone is automatically enrolled unless they fill out the forms to opt out. Second, it is vaguely proposed that the individual can invest the money in whatever type of IRA vehicle they choose. But all Congress has to do is dictate that some or all of the "investment" has to be in US treasury bonds or some other government security. Third, the proposal has some type of federal matching credit for people below a certain income level, yet another income distribution scheme. All it takes after this is enacted is for Congress to pass legislation to remove the opt-out provision, and the plan is complete.
  • Joshua still doesn't get it.
    @Joyce
    The beauty of options is they're optional. If you think they are going to screw it up, don't choose the option.
    By Joshua

    Too many of his followers will go for it, and they'll make it less and less available to take an option.

    You have more faith in this government than they deserve OR you see a way for you to benefit, the hell with any consequences. Think ahead.
  • retirement
    Closed out my IRA's a couple years ago because I knew the government had it's eyes on it. Took quite a hit, but no doubt it'll be worse later. Thinking of pulling out of the stock market too. Cut back on all my "discretionary" spending by almost 60%. Hoping to get that to 75% soon.

    I haven't busted my a** all my life for what I have just to end up watching the politicians take 30% or 40% of it and flush it down the toilet.
  • My plan
    Forget investing off-shore. You won't be able to get your money back on-shore, where you need it, without the government taking a huge bite out of it in penalties.

    Forget investing it in the market yourself. The government has a thousand ways to tax the living daylights out of it for you. And if the market crashes, you're sunk.

    Forget investing it in gold. If an economic crisis comes, then gold is only going to be worth whatever somebody is willing to give you for it. That puts you, the seller, at a serious disadvantage.

    Invest your money in self-sufficiency. Put solar collectors on your house. Maybe a windmill. Lay in a vast store of firewood. Fill your basement and other nooks and crannies with non-perishable food, soap, large supplies of water, medicines, clothing, candles, oil lamps, flashlights, batteries -- all manner of long-term survival gear. And the guns and ammo you'll need to protect it from desperate thieves.

    If nothing happens and the economy is fine, you're still in good shape. You can eat the food, wear the clothes, use everything you have for your day to day living, while saving your money. After all, prices will most likely only go UP. It's a hedge against inflation. And you'll cut, or even eliminate, your electric bill too.

    And if things go bad -- REALLY bad -- then you'll be prepared for survival.

    Don't invest in your pocketbook -- invest in your LIFE. And the lives of your family. That's all that really matters.
  • the people's money
    the day our IFG (Imperial Federal Goverment) tries to take people's savings and hard earned retirement savings it will be the end of big government as we know it. let them try and just see what happens!!!!
  • Mao would be proud
    They will first steal your money then kill you with their 'health care'. Sorta like Kmer Rouge did in Cambodia to my friends who emigrated here.
  • you are the one
    that is ignorant isomer. this is a socialists dream. take our money and redistribute it. don't you get it. you will be told how much you get in retirement regardless how much you contribute. Then the extra money will be given to those who haven't worked a lick in their lives, or chose not to get educated (yes chose - people have many options) or chose to snort or shoot up their money. I, for one will not allow that to happen. So please put down that kool aid before you hurt yourself and then get educated. barack, steve or barry or whatever his name is needs to be impeached, imprisoned for his acts of treason and deported to his homeland.
  • want to stop this ??????
    start a recall petition for both of your senators & house member. recall them now. you must, however, elect people beholden to your ideals. reading the comments, i get the impression you understand the problem. now, effect the cure!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Obamanomics
    The white house now is a prime example of what you get when aliens breed with sheep & jackasses
  • Discussion about reducing SS and RRR benefits
    An insider said there was a discussion within the Obama Administration that SS and RRR retirement payments will be decreased if a retiree has other retirement income, so their share will be used for those that have not saved for retirement.
  • What do you expect
    When he surrounded himself in the White house with advisors who were pro gun control, pro abortion, pro homosexual marriage, anti-capitalism, anti-free markets, pro government control over everything and wanting to curtail freedom of speech to silence the opposition, People said it didn't matter...
  • Plunder Indeed
    Only the most partisan Obamabot would claim that this administration does not want anything less than 100% capitulation and control over everyone. Even floating this idea is indication that NOTHING IS PRIVATE anymore.
  • The slippery slope
    Dixie Darlin, social security (FICA ) is NOT optional and by definition in the SCOUTUS cases Davis v. Stewart Machine, and Carmichael v. Southern Coke and Coal FICA is an EXCISE TAX ON WAGES (of the employee & employer). Hence it was legal under Article 1 section 8 allowing congress to raise taxes, levies, and excises.
    This all follows the response of Willie Horton to the question, why do you rob banks, “Because that’s where the money is. If anyone thinks Uncle Shyster is any different (except he can legally use leathal force on you) you have been smoking up the profits of your home grown cash crop. The only thing here is government math even if they take all the retirement funds it will only provide 2 years worth of cover for the deficit.
    As Joyce, Ace Commoner and others have pointed out is that it starts as a trickle, just get your foot in the door, and ends like the Johnstown flood with all wondering what happened!
    It’s Uncle Shyster telling you “Bend over I’m Driving”!
  • @Joyce
    The beauty of options is they're optional. If you think they are going to screw it up, don't choose the option.
  • @CD
    You said "you" and "get it" in the same sentence. Does that mean you think I get it? Or is the meaning of a sentence determined by more than just a couple of the words in that sentence?
  • Still waiting for an answer from you far-left national socialist Democrat apologists. Why are they considering this move?
    Now that you've had a chance to think about, what's your answer?

    Along with that maybe you can give us all an explanation as to how the far-left national socialist Democrats can justify this stealing of private property?

    Hint: “Bush also had deficits” or “Bush did it too” aren't REAL answers.

    And if you can't come up with any decent answers, maybe you should question your own devotion to Obowmao and the rest of the National Socialists.
  • 401K
    They can have my retirement when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
  • Wow! If ObamaCare and ObamaStealYourIRA
    can be implemented together then think how the government will benefit. The government will use ObamaCare to ensure that you won't live to a ripe old age and the government, not your heirs, will keep the balance of your IRA/401(k).
  • Re: isomer @ 02/03/10 11:43:07 AM same questions : If they aren't planning on doing this, why talk about it in the first place?
    ..
  • Re: Common Sense Dude @ 02/03/10 11:02:02 AM “All they are doing is looking into something that will definitely not happen. “
    How do you KNOW this?

    If they aren't planning on doing this, why talk about it in the first place?
  • Massive Government on ALL Levels
    "When the Government fears the People, there is is Liberty. When the People fear the Government, there is Tyrany". Thomas Jefferson
  • national debt
    there was a comment posted about selling off the government buildings and land to pay the national debt well.. the govt does not own very many buildings,almost all of the govt office
    buildings are rented by the govt even the post office talk about being a fat cat landlord the govt helps you build an office building for them and then pays you rent for it until they get tired of it and want to move some where
    else
  • Joshua
    How old are you buddy? Do you seriously believe that once they give you the "option" they won't eventually screw it up somewhere along the line? You think they won't spend that money on some other pork barrel want, and then expect the tax payers to ante up when it comes time to pay those "guaranteed income streams" back out?

    I guess you also believe that once they get their hands on health care, they won't keep trying to find a way to slip public option in there.
  • Greedy Government
    "When the Government fears the People,
    there is Liberty. When the People fear the Government there is Tyrany". Thomas Jefferson
  • Joshua
    require and option in one sentence....and you dont get it
  • means testing
    This won't pass-just like all of Obama's / Dems' bad ideas. Just mentioning it is going to cost them votes. The ones that saved the most in IRAs are going to get screwed out of their social security via means testing though. One way or another no good deed goes unpunished.
    GOP is complicit in the $15 trillion ss liability-that is why they don't make an issue of it.
  • laws
    In the context of Jim Crow laws, Martin Luther King Jr. said, "If a law is immoral, it must be broken."
  • retirement accounts
    does anyone know how to avoid this, should we all just take our money out now
  • what about Gore's "lock box?"
    Something occurred to me: Just as Al Gore promised a Social Security "lock box," and 44 and his gang promised to make healthcare coverage "just like Members of Congress have and at the same cost" available to those of us who pay their salaries and subsidize their perks, why has not someone called them on this?
    They are condescending sphincterboys of the lowest order.
    But it is easy to tell when they are lying: the lies come when they are breathing
  • Boortz is waaaay off on this one. He has completely misinterpreted what is in that document.

    Nowhere is it talking about forcing you to contribute money to anything. It is discussing whether the agencies should "facilitate access to, and use of, lifetime income or other arrangements", and whether or not they could do this by requiring a "lifetime income distribution option" for defined-contribution plans.

    Options are optional, and facilitating isn't forcing. Learn to read Boortz and stop overreacting to every little thing.
  • Neal, I think if
    this ever truly gets tried/foisted, there will literally be blood in the streets...and since the leftists have purses, it won't be good.....for them.
  • WAY TO MAKE MONEY..
    Keep up the bad work,lets see you invest 1000.00 over time the investment goes up and down you dont get tax breaks when it goes down unless youre name is tim geitner finally after 10 years it is worth 2100.00 then you find out they want to take 1200.00 of that in taxes..ill keep my safe thanks youre gonna get a higher return on youre investment if you drink a case of beer a week and return the cans for the 5 cents deposit.
  • Annuities
    My take

    I believe the government is looking to "nudge" people to buy lifetime annuities with their 401K's and IRA's for their "own good"

    I believe (may be wrong) that many of these companies (like AIG) that are really government owned or controlled) (tarp money) would greatly benefit from this.

    If the above is true, our government could then seize this money under the guise of a "national emergency" All the Liar and Chief needs to do is have an excuse to declare marshall law, and the U.S as we know it is over
  • No shoe boxes or matresses !!
    The way its going, "dollars" won't be worth the paper its printed on. You might as well buy gold or gems or something that has some value globally.
  • Commoner
    The problem is, just like with SS, that started out at a low rate of your income, the Fed then took the account over and spent it. So now, we are paying an even higher percentage of our income, just to make sure there is some in there to pay out to current beneficiaries. So we are paying for our and paying more to replace what the Fed has borrowed of what we had already paid. So we are paying twice.

    Same would happen here, the early beneficiaries (sp?) would have all the gain, while several generations down the road, we would have yet another unfunded liability to add to our total deficit. Look at the debt clock, most of the $107trillion unfunded liabilities are social security/medicare.

    It's another case of unintended consequences. The really sad thing is, they've seen this happen before and don't care. Too many dumb masses will only worry about getting on the band wagon early on and to hell with the next generation.

    Plus, as Robert pointed out, you would not be able to leave your account as an inheritance or a greatly reduced one.
  • The Government Wants Your Retirement
    Neal,

    Americans already have an option for converting some or all of their retirement savings into a lifetime stream of income. All they have to do is purchase an annuity contract from a life insurance company. People do this all the time. While not all annuity owners choose to exercise the lifetime income stream option by actually annuitizing the contract, they at least maintain the flexibility to do so.

    Having fallen down yet again on their attempt to compete with the health insurance industry, is the federal government now sticking its nose into the life insurance industry tent? One has to wonder, I suppose. If an insurance company managed annuity assets with the same fiduciary care the government has exercised over the Social Security system, they would have been shut down and the company executives thrown in jail in short order.

    As a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER(tm) professional, you can bet I'll do everything I can to steer my clients away from any sort of "government option" that might emerge with respect to individual retirement assets. (Sorry for the caps - the CFP Board of Standards insists on it).
  • 401k
    Let me offer the Federal Government a suggestion; no not that, this - keep your hands off of, out of and away from my money, my children, my job, my house, my life, my health, my religion and to the politicians - go get a real job and see how it feels to be pushed around by the Government if you are a law-abiding, tax paying, middleclass American.
  • if soc sec participation is voluntary how did you become liable
    most people rant and rave about taxes and the government stealing from them. not a big shocker. but many do not realize what THEY themselves did to get trapped in the government's web. we were once sovereigns, a benefit we gained when america won the revolutionary war. but most of us signed it away when we "volunteered" to participate in FICA or social security. FICA stands for Federal Insurance Contribution Act. So we basically agreed to insure the federal government with ourselves and what we do to earn a living when we became contributors through FICA, in other words, "human resources." those who signed up for the "benefit" signed away their sovereignty and became paupers in the eyes of the law. According to Article IV, Articles of Confederation (1777), paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice are excepted classes. So if you signed on the dotted line and did not know what you signed up for or what you gave away when you did, well, you became trapped by your own ignorance. as a pauper, government can do whatever it wishes with you, to you, etc., and you cannot complain. you no longer have the correct status at law to complain. the correct status would be "free inhabitant" but if you signed away your sovereignty, that is no longer your status. unfortunately most of the folks who read this will not understand what it means. like neal says, it's the government schools of indoctrination that have destroyed most people's ability to reason and think for themselves. most just regurgitate what they've read in some high school textbook. it's really sad.
  • THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOUR RETIREMENT
    Honestly, if the GOVT I hope there is an outrage so big in this country it will scare the Liberals Straight. This would be THEFT BY TAKING. I would like to know if the GOVT has EVER handled our taxes dollars properly?? I'm with you Neal, it's gonna happen, but we have got to stand up and say NO, no we need to say HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Cash It in
    I, like some others, will simply cash mine in and pay the 10% penalty. At least then, I can use it to purchase what I want with today's dollars as it's not going to be worth much years from now anyway.

    If you read some of the homesteading blogs, you see where people have done just that. They cashed in their retirement accounts and bought things such as land & housing. They have also went back to growing their own food, something we may all need to do again at the rate the government is bankrupting the country.

    Since there is a lack of business sense in the government, populated mostly by lawyers, they also miss another important fact:

    If everyone does decide to cash them in, look at the impact that will have on the stock markets, which so much of everyone's funds invested there. The government may get their 10% penalty and regular taxes, but what happens to all the company's as the value of the stock goes down as it's being sold.

    They try to plan 10-year budgets but can't see past the next election.

    As someone else said "Hope is not a strategy".
  • Government Takeover of Retirement
    The government is so desperate now that China owns our debt. When this country goes bust, what will China require of us to pay our debt? Retirement funds are just the beginning.
  • Missing Puzzle Piece
    Neil missed a major piece of the puzzle on how they Government will accomplish this. Those documents are talking about "annuitizing" 401ks. Annuities are "insurance products". The Government now owns the largest (Or it used to be) Insurance Company in the world.. AIG. The Government won't come right out and take the money, but they will use slight of hand, just like using a Government option to rid the private health care system
  • Voluntary me arse
    Sure bet. Not for one millisecond do I believe these thugs don't have in mind to pillage every 'fund' they try to create. They did it with FICA to the point that now illegals get to benefit from it (even though there's nothing left in it). Voluntary contribution morphed to absolute bullshit. Now they THINK we can't see through the same damned scheme? Well, maybe some can't. Especially when it's all dressed up with pretty words and frills and crap.
    I've been thinking of yanking my funds, taking my licks with the penalties and hoarding as much cash as I can (save buying food stores, ammo and guns)until I see the dollar going bust then dumping the rest on more food, ammo and guns as there will be few places to hide from the unprepared roaming hoardes looking for whatever they can take using whatever means necessary to take it.

    It may have taken 70 years to get to this point, but at this point we are. I hope there's enough militia out there to keep some semblance of order on the local levels.
  • Over reaction
    I think we have good reason to be worried about some kind of "wealth tax" on our retirement assets, but Neal's interpretation of this lifetime income option may be a bit of an overreaction. This idea has been around longer than Obama.

    Already retirement plan options can include annuities that provide this lifetime income. Even some schools and hospitals require particiaption in an annuity option through a 403(b) plan.

    I don't think the governement needs to get into the specifics of what people invest in, but I also don't think this is some kind of conspiracy to force their hands into our pockets any more than they already do.
  • 401K
    When I retired from the government (I know, I know) 2 years ago, I cashed out my thrift savings plan (Fed equivalent of 401K) and paid my 20% tax (ouch) and put the money into land and guns. Best thing I ever did
  • ERISA "regulations ot otherwise"
    Thanks for the heads up. Congressman Miller tallked about rejiggering ERISA last year and it appears that they are going forward full throttle. I am contactin Rep Dahlkemper and will let you know if she deems it necessary to respond (which is always requested)
  • Yeah neal
    Government - The one word definition of greed.
    It seems to me they're also basically admitting my social ponzi scheme compulsory 'contributions' are long gone and won't be there if or when I retire.

    They already have a name that works fine for what they're talking about, junk bond.
    By CowboyUp

    Add that to your article/book on greed!
  • Pitchfork Time!!!
    This calls for the PITCHFORKS!!!!!!!

    Folks had better start waking up!!!
  • @joyce
    "no inheritance rights" just a big black hole where money disappears.

    And sure I'll put my retirement money in a plan earning 3%.
  • 401-K
    Hey you, Blue Lip Obama, Plastic Face Pelosi and Con Man Harry Reid - leave our 401-K alone and move to China (or for Obama Saudi Arabia). We don't need you here interfering with our lives. Wish I could say - YOU'RE FIRED! Elections come in November - take it back, America!
  • Obama wants my retirement
    I have heard you discuss this for a while now, and so wanted to believe it would not happen to us, but at this stage of Obama's dictatorship, I am confident that he will steal from our 401k just like he said he would not tax the middle class. Can we all just say 'BEND OVER" Sick and tired!!!
  • parkin' money elsewhere
    And I thought saving for retirement in this country is a good thing! If this "Big O Plan" comes to be, I am going to transfer more money back to India as my back up retirement plan...
  • 401K
    Our socialist prez and his goons just can't wait to prey on what's not theirs! The sooner these clowns are out of office the better. Blue lip Obama, Plastic face Pelosi and Con Man Harry Ried are dispicable!
  • Boortz is ignornant. The government is seeking ways to make retirement savings more secure by investing in annuities. No talk of gov. taking your savings. Pure conspiracy theory with absolutely no basis
  • Retirement accounts
    I am aware of the problem, BUT WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT? Other than move my money offshore, and I have no idea how to go about doing that safely, I don't see any solution. I vote for fiscally conservative candidates and do my civic duty to get the word out. Elections have consequences, but why do those of us who do the right thing have to suffer from the ignorance of others? I appreciate Neal catching these things, but some solutions would be nice.
  • I thought
    this was coming down the pike. I will take every penny I have out of my retirement regardless the penalty and invest it elsewhere. I am going to say the penalty will be far less than what barack, steve or barry or whatever his name is wants to do. I have worked hard all of my life for what I have and I am not going to let some narcisstic communist take it away from me. when is someone going to impeach this imposter and fraud?
  • Federal Assets for Federal Debt
    Let's sell off the Federal assets to pay this Federal debt.Land,Buildings and anything else they have.. MAD AS HELL HERE
  • Not for this but hard to argue against the t-bill returns
    China doesn't want to invest in T-bills right now because they believe the US will raise interest rates. When interest rates go up your t-bill value goes down. No investor wants to buy at the bottom. Secondly if you had invested in t-bills 20 years ago, your rate of return would be a lot better (close to 8.5% plus a revenue stream) than had you invested that money in the stock market (close to 7%).

    The government is already highly involved in your retirment. The gov't already forces individuals to take out minimal distributions to do what? Pay taxes.
  • IRS buying shotguns!
    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=8d3b076bd4de14bbda5aba699e80621d&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck=

    Think their gearing up for armed rebellion? If this idea of taxing 401Ks goes forward, there will be a lot of citizens with pitchforks and weapons marching on DC. The only way to avoid bloodshed right now is with your vote on Nov. 2, 2010. Let 'em know what you think!!
  • Tax Deferred Retirement Withdrawals
    I think its more likely that they government will mandate a larger percentage withdrawal on tax deferred retirement accounts at an earlier age. From their point of view, money in tax deferred accounts like a 401K has never been taxed. If you make people start pulling it out it becomes subject to taxation. Its a potentially huge money maker for the government and may have the added bonus of increasing spending by individuals.
  • This is a double whammt
    Not only will this be taking people's retirement, but it will also be a hit on the economy as 401k plans put a lot of money in the market to help businesses grow. If that money is pulled out, it really could push the US into a full fledged depression
  • They are only reviewing the process
    This is called an overreaction and it is common amongst conservatives. All they are doing is looking into something that will definitely not happen.

    Oh, and what idiot would invest in the government rather than Coke? That is the most obvious statement ever.
  • Lifetime Income stream
    As a previous poster suggested, a lifetime stream of income implies that that stream ends at your death. Assuming that some form of ObamaCare is passed and Medicare is "reformed", we can look forward to health care rationing when we get to a certain age. This will limit the time that we can expect to receive this lifetime stream and the remaining money can be used to spread the wealth.
    The only problem with this is what's going to happen when the money is all spent? It's like the ultimate inheritance tax.
  • Thanks Neal
    Neal, thanks a lot for covering this. It seems like this is all being done behind the scenes (in secret), and it's ashame that nobody else will cover this. After my employer suspended our 401k match (it's since been reinstated) I barely contribute to it anymore, and instead favor of a Roth IRA, because it's better to pay the tax now at a known rate, than to have to pay taxes on it in the future at an unknown (and most likely higher) rate.

    But now, I'm just as reluctant with the Roth IRA as I am with the 401k. Who says the government won't change the rules entirely by the time I retire? That's the biggest part. How can I trust the government to keep it's end of the bargain? Okay, so that's a rhetorical question!

    I'm disciplined enough to save and invest on my own for retirement which now seems to be the way to go, because whatever's in those retirement accounts, somebody has their eyes on it, and is slyly waiting like a pick-pocket to get their hands on it.
  • How far must we be pushed before we revolt?
    I'm asking a fair and honest question here.....news such as this prompt the question, "How far will the American people be pushed by their government before they decide to openly revolt against that government?"

    Some of you might read that and think "that guy is nuts". Fair enough. But turn the question on to yourself: what would the gov't have to do in order to prompt YOU to support an open revolt? Come to your house and seize your property? Take your money against your will? Prevent you from expressing your beliefs in public? Prevent you from speaking out against the government?

    Well folks, the government already does all those things. They already steal your property from you (remember that Kelo decision in the Supreme Court?) They already take your money by force (look at your pay stub!) They already prevent you from expressing your beliefs in public (how many "take down that cross" or "take down that American flag" stories have we heard in the last few years?) They already prevent you from speaking out publicly against the government (remember those "free speech zones" at the primaries before the '08 elections?)

    So now the government is going to take your investments that you've saved for retirement, under the bogus guise that you haven't saved enough. Is THAT enough to finally start a revolution in this country? If not, what do you think it will take for the people to rise up and take this country back from the politicians?
  • I hate to say this --
    But this will be the straw that pushes me over the fighting within the law, to - LOOK OUT Washington HERE I COME WITH MY TOURCHES AND PITCHFORKS. When I leave there, the "law abbiding" citizens can start fresh voting in new REPS.
  • Gov't and retirement
    OMG. I am truly in shock of how terrible this regime has become. Can't wait til November.
  • ReJoyce, I sayeth, Rejoice! “How long Can we fight back w/o breaking the law?”
    I think we need to start thinking of ways of “Fighting Back”
    [I put that in quotes because I'm not really talking so much of fighting you understand]

    There have to be ways of stopping this country from running over a cliff, National strikes or whatever, but there have to be ways of stopping this or it really looks like we're doomed.

    The quotation you posted reminds of another:

    “You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence” - Charles A. Beard, Historian
  • YOU'LL DO AS I SAY..........NOT AS I DO!!!!!
    By Mike @ 02/03/10 09:17:56 AM

    I gotta say, if they touch my 401K, I am gonna be pretty PO'd. I will push back against the government in every way imaginable w/o breaking the law.

    That's the way most of us probably feel, BUT, I'm gonna keep my guns loaded and handy just in case..........?
  • ERISA proposal
    Not the first time this has been floated. It is a little less radical than some I have seen.

    It will be interesting to see how far it gets before it is sent to the "study committe".
  • Social Security Part 2
    Read a little history on Social Security. Here's an artical I found on a CPA web site, not political, just some interesting facts:

    http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/2006/506/infocus/p15.htm

    In particular, check out this chart:

    http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/2006/506/images/p18.pdf

    Social Security "Insurance" as of 1937, 1% of your first 3,000 in income.

    as of 2005 - 7.65% of your first 90,000 in income.

    Do you really think this plan would stay "optional" if it was ever passed?
  • Good point Robert Kelly
    There would be NO inheritance rights to this.

    This is getting worse the more I think about it.

    David Cater, if you give them an inch...
  • 401 k idea
    This idea is tantamount to stealing. But dont think they will stop with this if successful. We have to smash this trojan horse and burn the wreckage! No mercy to the socialist!!
  • Uncle Sam Wants
    Your retirement savings.

    Nearly 30 years ago I started my IRA because I figured Social Security would not be there for me.

    Now it appears that SS will not be there. And the government want my investments to cover their incompetent back sides.
  • Government - The one word definition of greed.
    It seems to me they're also basically admitting my social ponzi scheme compulsory 'contributions' are long gone and won't be there if or when I retire.

    They already have a name that works fine for what they're talking about, junk bond.
  • Anybody else old enough to remember
    when Congress gutted the Social Security trust fund back in the 60's? Does not Social Security now represent a "significant unfunded liability" (the term "technically insolvent" comes to mind).

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

    And these butt-heads now want to to WHAT to IRA and 401K assets?
  • Guaranteed income
    Looks like a path to “guaranteed income”… even you are not working. I can see where this goes; everyone not working gets a check from the government. And just like Social Security, you won’t be able to pass it on to your family, you die, the government takes it.

    The Government needs to stop this passing down wealth across generations, just too much independence. And it is just “greedy” to horde more money than you “need” when you’re old. Just sit in your rocker and die quietly.
  • omg!!!!!!!!!!
    I could see a war over this!
  • This would be it for me
    The second legislation like this passes one of the two houses, is the day I empty out my retirement account, pay their BS penalty, move somewhere cheaper, and start over.

    Only a couple of problems with this, though:

    1. I have to quit to get to the funds (by design, we cannot take a loan or access the funds while employed).

    2. I'm the owner.

    Clearly, this doesn't just affect me. There are 23 other employees who will be significantly affected if it comes to this.

    I can't believe that I'm the only one thinking like this. This will NOT end well, and make the health care debate look like a minor disagreement over high tea.
  • Hands off of my dough
    I was going to open up an IRA account this year, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I should just start hiding money in shoeboxes around the house? I'm not sure how else to ensure that O and his band of socialists keep their grubby mitts off of it. I earned it, I keep it. I'm not interested in funding O's loser voters who refuse to get jobs.
  • How long
    Can we fight back w/o breaking the law?

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
  • But Neal, I'm sure WE can Trust that the Far-left National Socialist wingbats of the Democrat Party to do the right thing.
    After all, they've always done so In the past and have Never screwed anything up.

    And Besides, Bush spent a lot of money too!!!

    / Far-left National Socialist wingbat contingent on the board.

    [you can thank me later for voicing your opinion]
  • Possible misinterpretation
    I think you may have misinterpreted this line: "13. Should some form of lifetime income distribution option be required for defined contribution plans ..."

    The language after that seems to make it clear that they're asking if retirements plans should be required to provide a lifetime income *option*, not whether they should be required to disburse the money as a lifetime income stream. They then ask whether that *option* should be the default or not.

    Ultimately, you're still basically correct, in that if all plans are required to have such an option, and that is the default option, then the end result would be money in the government coffers and additional control, simply because that is the nature of a "default option"; most people will choose that option through simple inertia. But this language, at least, doesn't seem to indicate that the government would be requiring that that be the only mechanism for retrieving money from a retirement plan.
  • Yet another prediction come true ...
    Look at all that money! There's too much. We'll never pay it all out in benefits. We could spend it willy-nilly if only ...

    (dateline: back in the 60's, Congress looted the Social Security trust fund)

    He who does not study history is doomed to repeat it. - somebody smarter than I said that (Santayana maybe?)
  • Retirement
    What's wrong? The O just wants to "invest" it for you. "Invest" is the liberal buzzword for steal and spend.
  • My future
    I wish the government would quit worrying about my future
  • Retirement
    I gotta say, if they touch my 401K, I am gonna be pretty PO'd. I will push back against the government in every way imaginable w/o breaking the law.
  • retirement accounts
    The government has had it's eyes on these "tax deferred" accounts for many years. It's only a matter of time before they find a way to get their hands on that revenue. I shut all mine down. Pay now or pay later, and it's going to be a lot more later.
  • I Don't Know What Made Me Think Of This
    For some reason the nasty, brutal conclusion of Mussolini came to my mind all of a sudden. Hm.
    http://home.comcast.net/~lowe9101/mussolini/d7.htm
  • possible solution for freedom lovers
    For those of you who want to keep their money out of the hands of the government, I have a suggestion.
    1) Take a loan from your 401K or IrA and move the money offshore. There are places where the money is safer than in the US and in the US banking system. The Dominican Republic and Panama come to mind for me.
    2) Do your own research before doing this. There are a lot of scammers out there who want to rob you blind.

    Good luck.

    By the way for your Obama voters.. how's that hope and change working for you?
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