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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

FIGURES LIE AND LIARS FIGURE

By
Neal Boortz
@ December 15, 2009 8:40 AM
Permalink | Comments (48) | TrackBacks (0)

Just this past week The Community Organizer told Republicans that they needed to stop frightening the American people. Yeah .. it's those evil Republicans who are trying to scare people. But wait! Who was it attacking Joe Lieberman yesterday? Lieberman, you see, will not support a health care bill with an early buy-in for Medicare or the government option. The early Medicare buy-in is, of course, the ultimate government option. So ... the reaction of the left? Yesterday Ezra Klein in the Washington Post said that Joe Lieberman was willing to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people to settle an old political score. Yup .. Joe Lieberman is a killer.

The left is getting desperate. This "hundreds of thousands of people" dying shows just how desperate. How did the statists come up with that number? Glad you asked. I just happen to have the answer. Well .. .Michelle Malkin actually did the work here, I'm just going to summarize it for you:

  1. A health survey is conducted between 1988 and 1994. A questionnaire is given to 9000 people. They are asked if they were insured and then asked to rate the state of their own health.
  2. The Centers for Disease Control tracks the deaths of any of these 9000 people through the year 2000.
  3. Along come two Doctors names Himmelstein and Woolhandler. These two are strong proponents of a single-payer government health insurance program. Himmelstein is the co-founder of a group called "Physicians for a National Health Program." Woolhandler is also a co-founder. The group is dedicated to "implementing a single-payer national health program.
  4. Himmelstein and Woolhandler decide to take the data from the CDC study and use it to write a study for the American Journal of Public Health. That study was published last December.
  5. When writing their article for the AJPH Himmelstein and Woolhandler decide that every single person in the study group that initially reported that they did not have health insurance did, in fact, die because they weren't insured.
  6. No verification was ever made that the study who said they weren't insured were not, in fact, insured.
  7. No attempt was made to discover whether or not these people actually got health insurance before they died.
  8. No attempt was made to determine whether or not the deaths of these people could be attributed to a lack of treatment due to their uninsured status.
  9. To make this simple ... Himmelstein and Woolhandler just assumed that if one of these people reported between 1988 and 1994 that they were uninsured, and if they then died by the end of 2000, the only reason they could have died was because they were uninsured.

This, my friends, is the "science" that these power-mad Democrats use to justify their desperate attempts to take over our health care system. The real problem here is that there is no way in hell the ObamaMedia is going to tell their readers what the health care takeover proponents are doing. You won't see this explanation in the pages of the Washington Post or the New York Times. You won't see this shoddy research exposed on any of the broadcast news networks. What you did see was Michelle Malkin discussing this on the hated Fox News Channel.

And you wonder why the looters and moochers hate Fox?



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What others are saying

  • Doc you're not the best example of Libertarian yourself!
    They do NOT put forth the anarchist ideas you do. Point is, not all in a party, any party, agree 100% so attacking Beck just because he doesn't fit your extreme view of libertarianism is just nitpicking.

    You made it sound like the Repub plan was not worth more than 240 pages, if that was not your intent, my bad!

    "yes, we have the best health care money can buy. if you have the money". Or an insurance policy. I had quite a bit of work on my plan, no problems. We just need to get people back to work. Afterall, government involvement in our health care is NOT libertarian. And you are a libertarian, right?

    And this doesn't make any sense: "Murdoch's approach was to deregulate news media to where we can get 4-6 opinions on the news instead of 50-60 opinions. that's competitive. NOT!!"

    Do you seriously think regulation would get more opinions??? OR more likely, just 50-60 rehashes of the same opinion (the states). Kinda like NPR or the BBC.
  • So t- shirt
    You think it OK for you to put a gun against my head and force me to pay for your health care eh? Your nothing but a common criminal and belong in prison. But hey at least you will get your "free" health care there. What would happen if I put a gun against YOUR head and forced you to give me free t-shirts? Absolutely no difference.
  • IVAN.. . .you just keep getting better!
    I mean, really, man...you are a hoot. the EU Times, no less. Son, that is like reading comic books without the pictures. Absolutely hilarious! And I know that you will label me either a Denier or In Cahoots but that is OK so long as you keep this stuff coming.

    Oh, by the way...I used to work at USNORTHCOM so if you want some real juicy tippy-toe-top-real-secret info I can refer you to a guy who's sister dated one of the analysts who is a roommate of one of the J2-OPS folks.

    from: http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/us-forces-plan-direct-action-against-american-citizens/ "Everson suggests such horrifying events could possibly coincide with an invasion by the Chinese from the west and Mexico from the south."

    Dude, where do you get this stuff!!!???
  • American Jihad of Public Health
    So, the AJPH (American Jihad of Public Health) simply assumes that any person who is dead did not die because:

    1. They were 89 years old when they took the survey two decades ago (and no one thought "Hey, we should do the math"), or...

    2. No one got run over by a beer truck, the proverbial bus, or a drunk driver, or fell off a ladder, or crashed a motorcycle while not wearing a helmet, or...

    3. No one died of alcoholic cirrosis of the liver due to two decades of heavy vodka binging, or cancer from years of cigarette smoking, for which no amount of health insurance would have changed anything.

    yeah... Jihad - not Journal.
  • flarp
    If healthcare is eventually defined as a right, so should the real necessities of life: food, shelter & clothing! “Gimme gimme gimme!” “Gimme your vote” “Okay!”

    How much money do these brother’s keepers and lightbearing lovers of their fellow man get paid to secure their party power via legislating popular compassion/welfare votes? And somehow they don’t fall under the category of the greedy rich? Liberal intelligentsia = flarp.

    Madison warned everyone willing to read about factions: http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm. If "open-minded" liberals can read something like this http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm and still push for hopey changeybamaville, they are: A) not as open minded as they say they are; 2) complicit to treason; or D) stupid.

    "'The organizer's first job is to CREATE the issues or problems,' and 'organizations must be based on many issues.' The organizer 'must first rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act. . . . An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent.'"

    Can anyone (Green Beret?) link to any videos or substantiated news articles, or how about any “scientific study” of thousands and thousands of people dying in America's streets due to the so-called "healthcare crisis" or any lack of human compassion from our medical professionals under our current system? If anyone doesn’t like the $$$ amount of a medical bill incurred after a voluntary life saving (or not) treatment, perhaps they should have treated themselves. All this talk about “how can you put a dollar value on life” while excusing people from paying bills for services that SAVED their lives is disgusting. If you don’t value your own life enough to find a way to pay your own medical bills, why should society value your life so much to pay for them? Yup, some procedures cost a lot. And none of them are guaranteed to work. Is your life worth the risk and the money? Then sign a payment contract. Currently, that is up to you. And, guess what? You don’t have to pay ANYWAY. I understand that Obama and his clan will be more than happy to decide for you how best to use other people’s money.

    When the figures are being generated in order to support a lie, or, better yet, an orchestrated crisis, you can bet that liars are figuring that lying figures will stoke the factions to action. See links prior to A), 2), and D) above (while you are doing that, I think I should try to remove my parentheses and “quotation marks” keys).
  • mine work most....almost ....some.....well I get thru once in awhile
    ROCKHOUND.......mine work just fine cuz I don't spend a lot of time typin'....

    if your message is short an' quick no prob.......

    or..........
  • Figures and Lies
    Mr. Boortz, I find your comment that "just assumed that if one of these people reported between 1988 and 1994 that they were uninsured, and if they then died by the end of 2000, the only reason they could have died was because they were uninsured." to be false and misleading. As an independent conservative, we need to be factual. What they reported is that of the people studied, the uninsured had a higher chance of dying. Not that they died because they were uninsured.

    If we are to advance the conservative values of this country and defeat the socialist agenda of our current administration, we must keep ourselves on a higher platform then the moonbats that are running the asylum today.

    Respectfully, Claude
  • re-Joyce please
    i said it was a good idea. and they're not discussing it. do you think they're idiots? because only idiots would spend their time wasted on something that won't be discussed.

    yes, we have the best health care money can buy. if you have the money.

    i do believe you like Fox News. after all, it's got the "libertarian", glenn beck, on it's "news" show. and its head is Rupert Murdoch, another "libertarian". Murdoch's approach was to deregulate news media to where we can get 4-6 opinions on the news instead of 50-60 opinions. that's competitive. NOT!!
  • The coming storm
    Killer: may you be quick and deadly. Thank you for doing one of the most difficult jobs on this planet. You have my gratitude for doing a job that is necessary to protect us.

    Ivan: Survival. There are books out there on the topic. Bottom line, learn how to adapt, to live minimally, and make efficient use of those things around you. If you must defend yourself then you have to be the nastiest, dirtiest, most violent person in the fight. You cannot worry about your own skin until the fight is over and you are the last man standing. There are no second chances and no referees to whistle the play dead when the other side cheats.

    Learn who you can trust and learn to work as a team.

    All those liberals out there mesmerized by their 51-inch plasma TVs are in for a rude awakening.
  • Who's side ?
    Neckid's right, when having a meeting with the local hospital over how to maintain crowd control in case of a pandemic and the mob mentality for "getting my drugs/vacine". The method suggested & approved by the board if it becomes violent, shoot the leader (not kill) when he drops most of the remaining will have 2nd thoughts and back off.
  • To Killer and others
    I am not worried exactly cause I have faith in the resistance, but it still should be talked about. The feeling of revolution is starting to get real for alot of people. That is the only reason I am talking about it.
  • It is getting worse
    For those who just love the idea of the government running health care, try this:

    The government is REACALLING 800,000 DOSES of H1N1 VACCINE

    President Obama is calling his Senate Demoncrats to a meeting.

    The statists are gathering their forces. Our health means nothing to these people. They want absolute control over everyone and the US Constitution is GONE!
  • Doc please
    Are you arguing today just for the sake of arguing? Fox news may not be perfect but they've been covering a lot more NEWS than the lame stream media has. Covering it with a conservative slant is better than not covering at all. So no reason to "hate" Fox news.

    And the Republican plan (240 pages) is short because it doesn't need to be long. It's a phase in plan with benefits available to most IMMEDIATELY, how can anyone argue with that! With the ability to make changes as we go along when we find something that doesn't work and add things we need. As opposed to either Dem plan that is set in confused stone. There are things hidden in both plans that are ways to usurp our rights, that is the only reason they are so long, so no one can read them. Congress did not write either one. Outside progressive think tanks wrote them.

    This whole idea of mandating insurance is wrong, unconstitutional and destined to cost us more in the long run. The real solution is to get everyone back to work, get out of the way of small and medium businesses so they can grow their business and hire people. No one complained about health care when unemployment was low.

    And yes, we have the best health care in the world. The other nations just report deaths differently than we do. They lie.
  • Ivan -- UNforces on US soil
    I pity the UNforce soldier that winds up on our soil. My first thought is drive the guy, face first, to the soil, thrust my knee against the back of his neck, grab the hair on the top of his head with my left hand pulling straight up. Then using the dull Krag bayonet in my right hand, blade at the hair line above his left temple....
  • I pick........
    I want IVAN on my side.......
  • I betcha............................
    TERRY......is that sarcasm I see in you post??????? or are those figgers korect????

    Is we's skrewed????
  • Ivan and Killer
    I'm not concerned about U.S. Troops in the case of a "civil" war. As Killer stated and Ivan backed up, there will simply be too many deserters and Govt.-loyal officers getting shot.

    My opinion: there is a reason why the majority of our military is overseas, incapable of immediately reacting to an uprising in the homeland. Just like in Atlas Shrugged and 1984, those who will police are the one's who are loyal...and in neither case was it the military.

    Look at what is going on...federalization of the police forces nation-wide (and I was a cop - I don't trust ANY of them)....the number of foreign troops on our soil for "training" purposes.

    Frankly, what I forsee in the case of a "civil" war is a mass deployment of our "deserting" troops stationed overseas to try and get back home with the equipment at thier disposal. Such a movement will make current troop deployments look like snails across asphalt. They will be there to back us up within a few weeks if not less.
  • u n forces????????
    IVAN...........I know you are serious.......butt un forces.....let me make it clearer.....UNFORCES.....that means they ain't no way no how a force to sweat about.......

    hell three drunkass redneck lardasses could beat the fry-joles outa most of the units that the un could muster.....just think what a dozen good ol' boys could do.....
  • agreed Ivan
    Absolutely I agree with that sentiment, but U.N. soldiers attacking us are definitely a different topic from American soldiers doing so.
    Those U.N. soldiers will have a hell of a time trying to fight United States soldiers with

    Guerrilla Mode: [on] off

    however. As far as I have studied, U.N. 'peacekeepers' are fairly inadequate soldiers.

    But I digress. My main purpose for replying was that I have faith in (and know personally) that there are soldiers and citizens who are literally stockpiling ammo, food, supplies, and buying property and shelters to take up arms against any form of civil war, invasion, and what have you that may happen.

    Of course, people (usually liberals) seem to think that kind of thing is crazy, but this is the only nation on earth where the citizens of a country simply cannot imagine these scenarios. You think people in Georgia (the nation) scoff at people who stockpile food and ammo?
  • who's side????????
    KILLER.......thank you for your service...you are correct...in your first paragraph.....

    the armed forces of the united states are an awsome force to reckin' with....however they are dependent on us to get most things done.......the yardbirds (civilian workers) control almost everything at a military reservation/base/camp....one small missing part will slow/stop most u.s. operations here.......

    wherever our young warriors are deployed the rules change.....they are in charge.......

    when the revolution comes.....and I do believe it is coming......the folks that we need to be fearful of are the cops......however they are a small force and can be contained......

    the hard part about a revolution is who is the leader that needs to be followed.....and which one do you ignore

    again....thank you and your comrades in arms for your service.....from one vet to another......

    keep your head and ass down.....get wounded one is a purple heart the other is just embarassin'.......
  • By Ivan @ 12/15/09 11:17:16 AM
    Ivan,

    Killer knows what he is talking about. You should heed his advice.
  • @GreenBeret: or whatever you are
    Maybe you can put on the cammies, but know this. There rest of your liberal friends have no clue. Even some of your liberal friends are cracking. People are losing their money and even the liberals are willing to grab a gun and do something about it.

    Think about it. Once people get introduced to the health care that the original inhabitants of this country got from the US Government, it will get bloody. When people cannot get treatment because the government ran out of money or decided that you are not worth it, people will revolt.

    And where will you be, Mr. Green Beret???? I am ready to hunt, are you? You should find that liberal from Wimberley and teach her how to handle that wine bottle. Obviously, she is a little more than just half cocked. But, the liberals are getting fed up too.
  • To Killer
    I do not believe that the entire military would attack their own citizens, but I do know that with us fighting overseas on two fronts Obama could EASILY call in UN forces to "help" if he ever called for martial law in America. Foreign troops would have no problem firing on Americans. You have to remember that Obama is now the head of the UN Security Council (which is COMPLETELY unconstitutional)so getting UN forces to "help" police the streets of the United States is not too far fetched.
  • GOP health care plans
    they were only 200 pages because why work your ass off for something that won't even get voted on.

    they did that for you people who want something to say about liberals saying the republicans don't have a health care plan.

    it was smart of them.
  • By Green Beret @ 12/15/09 08:52:14 AM
    YOU ARE A DISGRACE!

    GO AWAY YOU LIBERAL FILTH POSING... Is this Fontana (however you spell your other names)?

    This bill is all about control. The vast content of the bill covers all sorts of government mechanisms for collecting personal information, financial information, tracking people, regionalizing populations. It is government control creep from the head-mistress creep herself, Pelosi. The Liberal State under the tyrannical oligarchy of Obama, Pelosi, Ried, is concocting more and more laws for controlling people.

    To give you an idea of how the government has destroyed the US Constitution, take a good look at the felonies you might commit everyday without knowing it:

    http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/felonies-you-commit-every-day/

    That is why President Obama is pushing the Demoncrats to pass it at any cost. He does not care about people being provided any health care. He wants this bill because if gives him MORE POWER!
  • to JeffytheQuick and others who take green beret seriously...
    Green Beret is some guy who literally changes his name every day and it usually has some military connotation or rank in it but he's a nobody. This board has had liberals with actual intellect and powers of discussion but this guy is a minor tool at best.
    He has never been in, nor could he ever handle the military. His posts are mindless and intended only to get as many indignant replies as they can from us here, so ignore them (technically, I'm replying to JeffytheQuick so this doesn't count as a reply to wannabe green beret, brian fantana, and so on).
  • TO IVAN
    Let me tell you one thing Ivan. My buddies in the military and I are adamant on this point: we will never turn our weapons against the U.S. populace per orders.
    We discuss this much more often than most civilians think, and if it ever came to war within our own country, most soldiers are ready to take their sizable personal armories and defend their FAMILIES and citizens, hide in the woods and fight the socialist loyalists.

    Sounds like a movie right? Most of us have these events planned out. There will be those loyal to Obama, and some would say the country, but to desert the U.S. Army/Marines etc. if ordered to attack the nation it defends is honorable, and there will be MANY deserters.
    The citizens of this country, were they to defend against an attack by its own military, would have the help of many (former) military personnel.

    In conclusion, I agree that to think this country is immune to some type of civil war is beyond naive (though most of the sheeple think just that), but I believe you are mistaken if you think all the soldiers are going to turn against their own.
  • I must add to this survey:
    I’m just doing liberal thinking here, so these numbers have to be correct… right?
    Out of the number of people surveyed, 625 were virgins, 127 they died after the survey, because they died as virgins, the government will not allow their children to get their inheritance.
    47 black people died because they didn’t get reparations for slavery
    37 died because of guns, with no help from a human, the guns all by themeselves shot and killed them, they would have been saved if there was stronger gun control.
    44 died because of other DUI drivers; because liberal judges thought they could be reformed and let them go with a fine.
    248 died because they dropped out or didn’t go beyond government education, they were just too stupid to survive life.
    350 died because they believed liberal politician and voted for them religiously, they were so reliant on government handout; this caused their quality of life to be far below average which affected their health and caused them to die an early death.

    see... I can come up with numbers.
  • A long-dead Englishman was quoted as saying
    There are lies
    There are damned lies, and
    There are statistics

    B. Disraeli
  • Figures Lie and Liars Figure
    that goes for the right and well as the left. i'm thinking of "the US has the best health care in the world".

    i have some other group who hates FoxNews. people who have removed their government issued blinders. of course we hate the MSM in all it's forms
  • Green Beret:: New Village Idiot
    You can't be this stupid can you? The GOP did come up with their own health plan but it isn't even being considered. It was only about 200 pages which is stark contrast to the 1,500 of the Democrats plan. Be that as it may, the GOP is being shut out of the process. Also, even if they didn't have their own proposal. Are you willing to accept any plan just as long as it's a plan? And why don't you stop with the strawmen anyway and look at the facts. The fact is that the liberals' findings are based on junk science like global warming. These doctors looked at these 9,000 people surveyed, saw how many had died in the 12 years since the survey began, and automatically concluded that the only reason why they died is because they didn't have any health insurance which on it's face is a crock. So get a clue before you sound off.

    And can someone please tell me why these captcha's never work the first time?
  • @Green Beret: You're a moron; do a little research
    Republicans have no input? Why don't you read the THREE bills Republicans have submitted.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

    How about:
    1) Abolish federal ban on buying health insurance across state lines
    2) Make private purchase of healthcare subject to same tax deductions are corporate
    3) Institute tort reform to reduce cost of medical malpractice insurance.

    You keep accusing people of "crying". Well, you sound whiny! Is it because you have no actual comment on this volume of false crap coming from the Democrats, supported by the MSM, and attempted to be forced down our throats?

    I guess you really favor gubmint control over your entire life, and trust that these politicians really care about you. You obviously don't care about yourself.
  • @Green Beret
    So if I bring some of Francisco's catpoop brownies, and you don't like them, and decide not to eat, I should complain like you do?

    Seriously, if you're really a Green Beret from the Army, please join up with the Cubans or the North Koreans. It would make more sense.

    BTW, my brownies wouldn't have any cat poop in them. I'm afraid yours would have no cocoa. Both would be equally brown.
  • @green Beret
    Other stats
    And here we go again, conservatives crying about something but not bringing anything to the table. Is there a healthcare bill they are proposing? Not a one. Is there a book or scientific study that they are showing off? Not a one. Are they just sitting around being angry at the world and whining about every little thing mentioned by someone who has a different political philosophy? well, that is just too obvious.
    By Green Beret @ 12/15/09 08:52:14 AM

    I strongly disagree with you. The GOP does have a plan for the health care reform. The problem in my view is the GOP has done a poor job promoting their plan and the democrats are refusing to listen to the GOP plan. The democrats right now have a groupthink attitude about health care reform so if you disagree with their plan, you are an obstructers or want the poor to die or do not want health care reform or you are a party of no.

    Here are some of their suggestions:
    1. Health care to be truly left to the free market (no gov't health option)
    2. Allow exemptions for premiums
    3. Cross state insurance purchase
    4. Incentives the Insurance industry to create pools for preexisting conditions
    5. Give health care insurance vouchers to individual who cannot afford health care on the own and do not have employer sponsor health care
    6. Make it easier for people to keep their insurance from job to jobs
    7. Leave the universal health care up to the States
    8. Medical decisions are between the patient and their doctor
    10. Create conditions where both the doctor and patient are aware of the cost of procedures and medical remedies
    11. Increase the Medicaid income limitation and relax some of the constraints.
    12. No direct federal involvement. It should only be involve thru minimal (sensible) regulations (it should only regulate it not run it).
    13. Torts reform. Cap punitive (not compensatory) damages issue by juries. The loser should be responsible for the winner’s legal fees. Put regulations in place to hold the plaintiff and lawyers responsible for frivolous lawsuits. Etc…

    Basically, the choice of obtaining insurance is left up to the individual (e.g. thru employer or self insurance with possible subsidies) the choice of universal health care should be that of the State (e.g. Massachusetts)
  • So this is research?
    My first High School Science experiment,breeding fruit flies for a study of genetics utilized better scientific methods than this. Once a hypothesis is developed - through a collection of data and experimentation -it is encumbent upon the researcher to share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, thereby allowing other researchers the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established. In other words - Where's the proof?
  • Chief Butt Nekkid, I am back!!!!
    Had a wonderful time in West Texas and have started moving my equipment. I think that there will be some money in teaching people to defend themselves in a high threat environment.

    Here is a good article on how liberals handle weapons:

    http://www.statesman.com/services/content/news/stories/local/2009/12/15/1215cayton.html?cxtype=ynews_rss

    Essentially, a liberal is pissed off at an investment firm run by someone who used to run a teacher's retirement fund in New York (that should raise alarm bells!). The liberal busts into the office sipping her fine wine and has to take a time out to LOAD HER GUN will holding the office at wine-bottle point.

    Just remember, I am on the side with the LOADED guns and liberals are on the side of the targets. It just keeps getting better!
  • Insurance
    Died because they didn't get health insurance?? Yeah.
    Bet you at least one died in a car accident. If he had only bought auto insurance, he might still be alive!
  • By Ivan @ 12/15/09 09:09:01 AM
    Ivan,

    I read the article a while back. That guy, Igor Panarin, has been around for a while preaching the break up of the US.

    The troop movement numbers really are not there. And, if I was going to suppress a civilian population tanks would not buy me much. A tank makes a wonderful target for all types of incendiaries, or should I say coffin, in an urban environment with angry civilians.

    Is it highly probably that President Obama has a game plan? Yes, I believe that it is. Chances are, it looks a lot more like Chavez's game plan. President Obama is very slick.

    Notice that President Obama is telling the Demoncrats to just pass anything, do not argue over the substance. President Obama wants his control and will take it in small steps. All out conflict is too unpredictable in its outcomes, so I doubt that they really want that.

    So, I think that we need to make it clear that the government faces an all out bloody violent conflict if it continues down the path of statism, liberalism, fascism.
  • The usual from the usual
    I’m only going to give you three links Mr. pretend Green Beenie (a REAL SF recons and you didn’t big mouth or you’d know about these), showing that conservatives do have plans. Like them, don’t like them, we don’t really care about that, we’ll be happy to debate it with you. But pretending they aren’t there is like pretending Pelosi or Reid are any less on the take than the rest of the scum in congress (Dems or GOP), or that you came here willing to listen instead of just be insulting, but then that’s just too obvious isn’t it?

    http://johnboehner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/06172009GOPHealthCareReformSolutionsGroupOutline.pdf
    http://usconservatives.about.com/od/conservativepolitics101/i/HealthCareReform.htm
    http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/hl1124.cfm
  • Green Beret
    The GOP have had MANY proposals to reform Health Care but the Democrat controlled committees REFUSE to allow the proposals to be voted on. Things such as insurance competition across state lines and tort reform. Things that would actually REDUCE costs. Educate yourself prior to making unfounded statements.
  • health care
    Man, liberals must be guzzling that mind altering Koolaid straight from the pitcher.
  • Wanna see something...
    that SHOULD scare you?

    http://www.eutimes.net/2009/11/obama-orders-1-million-us-troops-to-prepare-for-civil-war/

    Scary thing is that there are a few high ranking officers that have supposedly come forward and admitted this is true...

    Course we won't know until the first shot is fired. Remember that when it comes down to it we only need around 3% of the population to take a stand. That would easily be enough to stop the madness.

    An FYI to anyone that might not believe this info needs to look into the recent movement of armor in this country. There have been increased buildup of tanks and light and medium armored vehicles coming from Canada and being moved by train. There have also been C-130's training over civilian areas in the US. You would think that they should be over in the Middle East since the enemy is supposed to be over there. If you don't think civil war would ever come to America again I believe you are very very naive.

    Just remember to stay loose and keep your barrels pointed in the right direction. Patriots are NOT your enemies. We simply defend the Constitution.
  • Will the Real Scientists Still Standing Please Turn on the Lights
    Just another climatgate - figures maniuplated, "lost" or ignored if it didn't fit the leftist agenda. Opponents of this study - I don't know how it could be compared to research - will be ignored by MSM as they continue to use talking points decreed by the most transparent administration EVAH...!
  • Figures Lie and Liars Figure
    What a professor (statistics) once said goes hand in hand with above, "Simulation is like masturbation. You do either one too often and you start thinking it's the real thing."
  • Why do America hating democraps
    Ignore the GOP plans. their too busy trying to bring back slavery per jimmeyfontaindolan.
  • Figures
    some left wing clown already going on about something they clearly don't understand.
  • Other stats
    And here we go again, conservatives crying about something but not bringing anything to the table. Is there a healthcare bill they are proposing? Not a one. Is there a book or scientific study that they are showing off? Not a one. Are they just sitting around being angry at the world and whining about every little thing mentioned by someone who has a different political philosophy? well, that is just too obvious.
  • your figures
    Figuers don't lie but liars figure so show me your figures again.
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