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Today's Nuze

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

NANCY'S HEALTH BILL

By
Neal Boortz
@ October 29, 2009 8:43 AM
Permalink | Comments (109) | TrackBacks (0)

Princess Nancy is going to unveil her healthcare bill today. I'm absolutely giddy with excitement. Just what we need ... another competing blue-print for a government takeover of healthcare and 18% of our economy. It also represents a huge shift in government entitlements ... a shift that will be impossible to reverse. Once you get the people hooked on government, there is no way to end it. This may the strongest and most addicition we have in this country .. and unfortunately it's legal. In fact, addiction to government could very well be the most dangerous addiction America has to deal with. Give me a good old fashioned coke addict any time. What's more, this is an addiction that is openly promoted by many politicians ... politicians who generally, an with inexplicable pride, call themselves Democrats.

The Aging Hollow-eyed Hippy from Haight-Ashbury says her government takeover of health care will cost over $1 trillion over the next ten years. That's a lie. She knows it's a lie. Our government has never introduced an entitlement program that didn't cost at least twice as much as the politicians who forced it on us said it would cost. And just how will this monstrosity be paid for? Taxes, that's how. Taxes levied by the looters on the producers to buy votes from the moochers. That's the recipe for government growth. Pelosi also plans to cut payments to Medicare providers. Medicare providers are, in case you haven't figured this out, are doctors. Under Nancy's plan more and more doctors will certainly decide to opt out of treating Medicare patients. Then the government will come along to tell them they can't. Then the doctors will tell the government to go pound sand and will simply retire. This will mean a shortage of doctors that will come at the exact same time demand for services will increase. This will mean waiting lines. This will mean rationing. And all of this will come along because the Democrats steadfastly and absolutely refuse to consider any private sector options in their health care reform plan. Why not private sector options? Simple ....

... because this has everything to do with controlling you and nothing to do with improving your health care.

So what exactly is she proposing to do with your tax dollars?

Employers would be required to offer health insurance to workers
Employers will pay fines for not offering health insurance
Americans will be fined for not purchasing insurance coverage (no word yet on enforcement)
Subsidies will be provided to poor people who can't afford health insurance
Insurance companies will not be able to discriminate against older people or pre-existing conditions
A government option will be available to "compete" with the private sector

(Can any of you figure out just where these actions are authorized in our Constitution? Oh, wait. I'm sorry. Our Constitution doesn't count anymore. K bye!)

Now these are all of the things that Nancy and the Democrats want us to know right now about Nancy's bill. But like any piece of legislation, there are hidden gems that are impossible to decipher without two lawyers, a psychic and the 3rd floor ward of your local mental institution to help make sense of it all.



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What others are saying

  • re:snarkybird
    Glad that you got over here to read my last post. I somehow knew you would. You didn't think I would let you get in the last word. I think most on here are glad that you are around. Discord is a good thing. What a boring life it would be if we all thought the same.
  • re:Twistedsaint
    No offense taken. I am what Neal likes to say a product of government schools, and that seems like 100 yrs ago.
  • remany
    ah, so this is where all the action is today! :-)

    blue - weird how when someone says you'd be better off dead it becomes a sticking point. and I'll pass on the tour of duty in Afghanistan. I did my time in the military. I'm good. wouldn't wish that on anyone. They need to come home.

    and, what a weird suggestion about joyce. suffice it to say, I'm good here. thanks!

    libhater - no tears shed here chief. but yes, it does make me mad to hear people say that liberals would be better off dead. I am sure I always look like a fool. It's because I am one.

    ACE - ah, see... you just hate Obama because you're a racist. LOL!

    I kid, I kid.

    two points - one, we allow congress (not a mob) to make the laws. Two, sorry you dont like the laws they are making. but, again, your theory of tax burden = voting patterns does not hold water. one election does not a theory make.
  • @Blue-eyed Devil
    Sorry, no offense, but I gotta say it:

    There are no hyphens between the words 'maybe,' 'something,' and 'someone.'

    And you mean 'peace,' not 'piece.'

    Sorry, but it was bothering me.

    I like your thinking though. Maybe a vacation to see the guys Obama holds near and dear to his heart would do Snarkybird some good.
  • re:snarkybird
    take your view of freedom and stick it.
    By snarkybird @ 10/29/09 03:29:16 PM

    Whoa buddy ! Snarkybird lighten up. You sure are the angry one lately. Look you should be happy the liberals control the house and senate you have president jimmy carter jr. All is well. May-be you have been working too much. I only get a chance once or twice a week to check out this site and I notice you post all and every day. Have you given thought of a vacation? Heck I may-be could speak with someone that could arrange an all expense paid vacation to Afghanistan for ya, you could meet some guys that really want you dead they call themselves taliban. On second thought it's getting close to wintertime over there and even with this global warming going on it still gets as cold as an old whores heart there in the winter. Got some-thing better for you may-be you need to find the love of your life. Some-one that has the totally opposite outlook on life as you do. You know like a mary matlin, james carvelle deal. Wow I just thought of the perfect one for ya! Joyce. You and her always go at each other but ya both keep it civil. I saw that Joyce said she was born in 1956. I am hoping that you are still in your 20's otherwise your just an old p!ssed-off hippy, well it could still work. Joyce might go for being the cougar part. So think about it. Tell Joyce that you brewed up a pot of spiced chai tea that you would like to enjoy with her. I just hope you find happiness in this short time you have here on earth snarkybird, and I really mean that. Piece Out
  • reScott
    Your posts are relevant and to the point. Abraham Lincoln actually did the country a disservice by forcefully stopping states from departing the union. This began the process of an overly centralized federal government. Now the "bullies" think they can pass anything for any reason and we have to take it. There's a storm coming.
  • when the doctors retire...
    there will be plenty of cheap doctors from 3rd world cesspools like India willing to work for minimum wage here.

    do you trust your health care to someone who cant speak english?
  • Snarkybird
    What's the matter snarkybird??? Are you upset because you're starting to look like a fool on here? I know how hard it is for you to refrain from whining and crying like a little baby. Need a tissue???
  • Re: snarkybird 'do they have pitchforks and torches? '
    No, just 2 black leather jackets that say 'New Black Panther Party' and a nightstick, intimidating people outside a polling place.
  • crappers
    I meant irreverent. But you probably knew that.
  • I love this site
    They are so deliciously irrelevant. But warning, do not have anything in your mouth or hand when you open this.

    http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2009/10/29/pelosicare-1990-pages-long-plus-comprehensive-list-of-taxes/
  • Hidden message
    Just like Arnold's. Why can't you trust Nancy Pelosi?

    Cause she's
    Untrustworthy
    Never right
    Terribly off the mark
  • two wrongs ya know
    reblueeyedevil
    You said "But we do still have freedom of speech right?"

    umm...yeah, so... OTR can say anything I have to play nice?

    pfft

    take your view of freedom and stick it.
    By snarkybird

    Don't make a right!

    But that was funny!
  • That's why they are called RINO's
    retim
    sorry tim. there are bills out there, sure. but even the GOP is frustrated that their leadership, which promised they'd endorse and put forward a plan, has not done so.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/64877-gopers-impatient-on-healthcare-alternative
    By snarkybird

    And not the point as Frank was saying there weren't ANY. Those that are stopping our bills are the ones that we hope to get rid of.
  • reblueeyedevil
    You said "But we do still have freedom of speech right?"

    umm...yeah, so... OTR can say anything I have to play nice?

    pfft

    take your view of freedom and stick it.
  • retim
    sorry tim. there are bills out there, sure. but even the GOP is frustrated that their leadership, which promised they'd endorse and put forward a plan, has not done so.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/64877-gopers-impatient-on-healthcare-alternative
  • I know I know!!!
    Early retirees?
    — Sets up a $10 billion reinsurance program for insurance plans which cover early retirees (those between ages 55 and 65).


    Who do they think will be able to retire early?
    By Joyce M/Blythe


    I'll answer my own question (weird huh).

    Answer is: doctors!
  • reACE
    You said 'So, what happens when 2 or twenty thousand voters decide to take my property?"

    Depends, do they have pitchforks and torches?
  • We are Citizens, not subjects.
    How quickly and often that is forgotten.
  • @Frank
    Frank I get so tired of that same worthless lying argument, Republicans don’t have a plan. I’m going to give you one link; that because you are a liberal jerk you won’t look at and if you actually HAD a brain you’d already have Google’d along with a dozen others for yourself. http://www.gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/06-17-09_House__GOP_Solutions__Group__Outline.pdf
  • re:snarkybird
    See how you are. OTR made a comment that hurt your feelings and you say "expect me to mock your pathetic ass until you disappear." He did not say for people to take that action. It's how he feels, if he were to act out that thought I would expect that he would be punished under law. But we do still have freedom of speech right?
  • Entertainment
    Reading all these comments has kept me entertained for almost all of the work day.

    Keep fighting the good fight OTR!
  • Re:snarkybird “it's called precedent.” It's also called Judicial activism. Question is , if the Statist Democrats had some precedents they could cite, why didn't they?
    I know why you didn't answer “off the reservation's” question – only a fool thinks that the Statists aren't looking to ultimately have a single payer system.

    That is the ultimate goal, and anyone who states otherwise is lying.

    You didn't answer that question because you know that such a system would be a disaster for the country.

    But whether it would be or not is irrelevant to the Statists, all they want is power, pure and simple.

    If they really wanted to do something useful they would have Tort reform, competition across state lines, expand health savings accounts, etc.

    But they don't want to do that because it doesn't expand their power.

    Now, back to my question on "How can it be your property and the governments at the same time?"

    So, if I interpret you correctly, it is your contention that we control our property through our One vote correct?

    It is your thesis that we Maritain ownership of our property through the sole vestiges of One vote.

    So, what happens when 2 or twenty thousand voters decide to take my property? What recourse do I have against that kind of mob rule?
  • Early retirees?
    — Sets up a $10 billion reinsurance program for insurance plans which cover early retirees (those between ages 55 and 65).


    Who do they think will be able to retire early?
  • reblueeyedev
    You said "The real snarkybird has raised its ugly head for all to see. This is why liberals should not be able to possess any type of weapon. They know that they have no self control. They believe we all act on our emotions like they do. I only want liberals around me that have plastic forks and knives in their homes."

    Hmm..so, someone says that the only good liberal is a dead one, I call them (essentially) pathetic and subhuman, and somehow I'm scaring people?

    that's funny! truly!

    dont start nuthin, wont be nuthin

    it's really that simple.

    but, tell me that the only good liberal is a dead one? expect me to mock your pathetic ass until you disappear.

    and yet - I've STILL debated offtheres on the issue he brought up because, frankly, he's essentially arguing that govt run healthcare for indians isnt funded properly. he's right.

    me thinks it's you with the problem with emotion.
  • rescott
    You said "[Gibbs] I don't believe there's a lot of case law that would demonstrate the veracity of [questions about constitutional authority]." (Case law supplants the Constitution? Interesting judicial philosophy.)"

    He's saying there is no evidence of previous court cases challenging the veracity of this authority.

    it's called precedent. judges tend to look to it quite often. and he's right. and he's right for a reason. there aint none.

    be the first! please!! I wanna watch.
  • It was only a matter of time
    The real snarkybird has raised its ugly head for all to see. This is why liberals should not be able to possess any type of weapon. They know that they have no self control. They believe we all act on our emotions like they do. I only want liberals around me that have plastic forks and knives in their homes.
  • WTH is in that thing?
    10) Well-baby and well-child care and oral
    21 health, vision, and hearing services, equipment, and
    22 supplies for children under 21 years of age.

    The above is in it( all insurance MUST include it.
    There is also a provision for some abortions are to be paid for with taxpayer money, but I haven't figured just what those are yet

    Back to reading Nancy's folly
  • Nancy's bill
    Is over 1900 pages. WTH is in that thing?
  • Health Bill?
    Naw, A 1,900 page suicide note by the Democrat Party.
  • Right Twisted
    Snarky's in a mood today lol
    Just sayin'.....

    Usually he doesn't bring himself down to the level of our good friend Jimmy Dolan...but he's going all out today.
    By Twistedsaint

    I think off the res got to him!!!
  • Snarkybird: Government is not a charity
    You are most certainly a scum sicking liberal! You want to help people in your community, then God Love ya. But how DARE YOU make it a requirement upon me to support anything you find charitable!

    There are good causes everywhere and I give to support the ones that I believe in. But D@mn You to H3LL for putting the big government gun to my head to support you!
  • Since congress has exempted themselves
    that's enough for me to be against this plan. Splain that America hating whining libtards
  • Constitutionally Challenged
    Last week, three leading Democrats were asked during news conferences to cite the constitutional authority for their healthcare proposals. Here are their responses.
    "Are you serious? Are you serious?" replied House Speaker Nancy Pelosi when asked specifically about the constitutional authority for Obama's health care proposal. Pelosi's spokesman later clarified, "You can put this on the record: That is not a serious question. That is not a serious question."
    Democrat House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer attempted to answer the question: "Well, in promoting the general welfare the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect [a mandate that individuals must buy health insurance]. The end that we're trying to effect is to make health care affordable, so I think clearly this is within our constitutional responsibility." See my post below for a Madison quote on "General Welfare"interpretations run amok. Madison also said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents..." (That is government healthcare in a nutshell.)
    Patrick Leahy, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, responded to the question of constitutional authority by insisting, "We have plenty of authority. ... I mean, there's no question there's authority. Nobody questions that. Where do we have the authority to set speed limits on an interstate highway? The federal government does that on federal highways." (Actually, the states set speed limits, and only misinterpretation of the Commerce Clause could be construed to give the federal government that authority.)
    As for Obama, his publicist, Robert Gibbs, claimed, "I won't be confused as a constitutional scholar, but I don't believe there's a lot of -- I don't believe there's a lot of case law that would demonstrate the veracity of [questions about constitutional authority]." (Case law supplants the Constitution? Interesting judicial philosophy.)
  • snarkybird: Answer the question
    Snarkybird: you never answered my question for the simple reason that you and all of the rest of the people on this thread know, that the Pelosi plan is a step toward a single payer system. The end game will look just like Indian Health Care. Various groups will be provided exceptional coverage because of their political affiliation either by region, race, or ethnicity. Others, like my tribe, will be left to die.

    I realize that nobody here can verify that I am or not Native American. I can recount cultural adventures of my tribal culture for an anthropologist out there if you thought that it would help. I realize that you cannot verify that when I was 11, Indian Health Care left us without any treatment for a Tuberculosis outbreak, and I watched seven others of my clan die. I survived with that memory of being isolated to a block building by Indian Health Services, the night sweats, choking in the middle of the night, being so tired that I just wanted to be left to die with the disease. There was no treatment because IHS had no money.

    I do not want sympathy or pity from anyone. I do not want gifts. I have been out from IHC for almost 35 years now. I do not use any of the so-called government perks out there for Native Americans. I have put my children through private school and college, without any assistance.

    All that I want from this country is to be left alone. The liberals right now want to shove another useless program down my throat. For that, they want to take what I have worked for.

    It does not matter that in a group of two wolves and one sheep that the majority select sheep for dinner. It's still wrong and should not be allowed. By the way, I like the analogy and first heard it long after I left the reservation.

    All you liberals need to think long and hard. Maybe the right thing is to just say no. Maybe you do not want to come after me and others like me to plunder what we have. You do not want to enslave me.
  • nancys bill....................
    I want them to vote now and vote often..

    healthScare is needed for amerikans NOW.......
  • Snarky's in a mood today lol
    Just sayin'.....

    Usually he doesn't bring himself down to the level of our good friend Jimmy Dolan...but he's going all out today.
  • reofftheres
    You said "Every lousy liberal in this disgusting city called Austin, Texas, is singing the praises of Government Health Care. So my Anger has drawn a bead on the correct party."

    LOL! Well, every "lousy" conservative where I live is ranting and raving just like you.

    But I dont hate them for it. I just disagree with them.

    "but they aren't trying to take away anything from you!!"

    right?

    I have health insurance. And I've seen what not having it or not being "acceptable" for getting it can do to people, their families, and their lives.

    Those conservatives who think like you are ranting to keep things the way they are which is, in fact, taking a great deal from many I know and love.

    So, I share your frustration with govt who doesnt listen. But, I'm not the majority where I live so, while I try to change that, I have to live with what gets passed or find a new place to live.

    it hasn't come to that yet.

    but again, this is the process. this is what we all signed up for as members of this representative republic.
  • Unconstitutional
    James Madison, wrote, "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined [and] will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce."

    Thomas Jefferson asserted: "[G]iving [Congress] a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole [Constitution] to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please. Certainly, no such universal power was meant to be given them. [The Constitution] was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect."

    Madison added, "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one. . ."
  • It isn't about health care...
    The government doesn't care about our health. They certainly don't care about the health of the alleged 45 million without insurance.
    But maybe they should be concerned about keeping the 40% of tax payers who pay 90% of all income taxes healthy. (FYI - 20% of taxpayers pay 80% of all income taxes) That means allowing them to maintain their own health insurances, Cadillac or otherwise, without penalty. Newsflash: Poor people don't pay taxes! Go ahead - eat the rich. Then tell us all how that's working out for you, Nancy. Who's going to pay for your "public" jet then?
  • That didn't even come close to answering the question
    reofftheres
    You asked "Is your view that Government Health Care will be better, the same, what???"

    You seem to be misinformed. "govt healthcare" does not exist except for IHS and the VA. Healthcare reform, with or without the public option, is not govt healthcare anymore than Medicare is govt healthcare.

    The reforms being proposed are for the existing health insurance market's regulations and potentially for a govt subsidized option for insurance.

    So, the answer is - it will be nothing like it because it isn't what's on the table in any way or form.
    by snarky

    WHATEVER you want to call this NancyCrap, how will it compare to what is offered to the Native Americans? Forget about the IHS funding, just answer the question.
  • Will do!
    Just remember, it's a fight for a reason. You have opposition.

    bring it.
    By snarkybird
  • reofftheres
    You asked "Is your view that Government Health Care will be better, the same, what???"

    You seem to be misinformed. "govt healthcare" does not exist except for IHS and the VA.

    Healthcare reform, with or without the public option, is not govt healthcare anymore than Medicare is govt healthcare.

    The reforms being proposed are for the existing health insurance market's regulations and potentially for a govt subsidized option for insurance.

    So, the answer is - it will be nothing like it because it isn't what's on the table in any way or form.

    That being said, it sounds to me like the problem with IHS is funding.

    So, I'm not sure how you can argue on the one hand that the govt sucks and needs to go away and on the other hand argue that your govt provided healthcare needs more money.

    seems to be an argument with yourself there.

    You're essentially asking for more govt funding for govt run healthcare so that it works better.

    I agree. It needs more funding.
  • snarky bird
    Right now, the people talking about seizing my property to give me back yet another health care system that will fail is:

    a) The Liberal led Democrat Party
    b) The lost in the wilderness Republican Party
    c) Who????

    Again, Indian Health Care. That's the example that I have lived with. So, tell me what about the Government Health Care BS you are feeding me is different? In the case of Indian Health Care, millions and millions of acres of land were taken. The return, by treaty, was Indian Health Care. In the case of the Government Health Care system that you are peddling, it's an entitlement program that penalizes successful people.

    My Anger is appropriately aimed at the correct target. The target is proposing to enslave me because I became a productive member of society despite the hurdles the government puts up. Every lousy liberal in this disgusting city called Austin, Texas, is singing the praises of Government Health Care. So my Anger has drawn a bead on the correct party.
  • That's an ignorant assumption
    So, in your world, we'd have states that still allowed segregation and abortion was illegal... just as a couple examples.
    By snarkybird
  • Nancy's Bill
    After reading the first 100 pages of Nancy's bill, it is full of "The Secretary of Health shall do this, shall establish that, shall decide" Thus it is just an instrument that give's the control of our health care to the whims of 1 individual. But it does make health insurers provide health care to the dead beat children (up to age 27) under the parents plan, and the really great thing is these dead beat kids don't have to live at home to get it.
  • rejoyce
    you said "Which is exactly why we are pushing our reps to say no to this crap of a healthcare bill and will kick as many out as we can come 2010. Gotcha."

    and nothing makes me happier than an involved citizenry holding their reps feet to the fire.

    Awesome I say!

    Just remember, it's a fight for a reason. You have opposition.

    bring it.
  • snarkybird: Answer the question
    Is it your view that government health care is to be like:

    Indian Health Care

    Come on snarkybird. Your liberal avoidance tactics do not work here. Again,

    Indian Health Care

    Is your view that Government Health Care will be better, the same, what???
  • You're right Snarky!
    "OR, you decide you dont like it and while still obeying the law, work to change it through your rep."

    Which is exactly why we are pushing our reps to say no to this crap of a healthcare bill and will kick as many out as we can come 2010. Gotcha.
  • reofftheres
    You said "The tyrannical oligarchy that you argue for like that fascist pig bass turd in the White House is turning this country on itself"

    did you catch the comment about opinions being like a**holes?

    the ironic thing is, the basis for your anger is something I agree with.

    and last I checked, it was liberal and conservative screwing you.

    I know it feels good to have a single point to direct your anger at but, what you're doing is being an obnoxious jerk spouting hate.

    I'm just giving it back because I think talking about killing anyone is insidious and you deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for saying it.

    do more for your cause that spout your anger here. it deserves better than this.
  • Re: snarkybird @ 10/29/09 11:40:21 AM What was that in response to this question: How can it be your property and the governments at the same time?
    Or this question: "What's to stop those people from voting in the party that will promise them the most plunder from their fellow citizens?"

    Do you understand how dangerous that can be?

    Instead of voting in the best person for the job, people voting for plunder will go for the highest bidder.

    Politicians responding to this will bankrupt the country, does that sound like a good idea???????

    The fact is that it has happened, and will happen again, but somehow you don't see any problem with it.

    Why is that?
  • Oh yes I do
    Do you know what "tilting at windmills" means?
    By snarkybird

    It's what your followers have been doing for decades.

    And as far as did anyone think of it before us, uh no. They didn't. Because they were believers in the government, not that they were less intelligent, so no there is no arrogance inferred here. Just a group of people waking up to the fact that the government lies and has been lying to us for quite some time and it has people like you perpetuating those lies.

    Whether anyone thought of it before or not is moot anyway. Entitlement programs period are unconstitutional and we have to stop having any. States and local governments can have programs to help those who truly need help if the voters agree.

    You seem to think that we are totally against healthcare for people. We are not at all, we just do not want another giant government bureaucracy.

    And yes Frank, the Republicans have put forth their own health care plans.
  • AH...
    I love ignoring snarky's comments. He makes no valid contribution to any discussion. I don't see this bill going anywhere...
  • reAGM
    you said "the contention that liberal moon bats not only distort facts, but on many occasions actually make them up."

    right...so, is this where I call you out for name calling and just bloviating about how you hate without providing any substance?

    ah, the loose standards of conservatism. "what is good for me is not good for you"
  • snarkybird
    Snarkybird, you are the most vicious of all filthy lying liberals. That's another authorization bill, AMONG MANY! It means NOTHING!!! Except that some filthy demoncrat gets another chance to utter filth.

    You do not understand a thing about AUTHORIZING and APPROPRIATING!! I have had it with all of your repugnant AUTHORIZING. You suffer from obvious government education syndrome.

    Do you realize that almost less than half the money ever AUTHORIZED is ever APPROPRIATED?!?!?!?

    Just like both the Republican and Democrat parties of the past, you play your good little showcase Indians while screwing other tribes. Tribes are played off on other tribes. One tribe gets the lion's share of the APPROPRIATED funding while the others are left to starve for political expediency. You are a repugnant vile lying sample of behavior.

    Know this you filthy liberal. When it comes to the point that you take away what I earn and I can no longer take care of my family, take a guess where I am going to turn next. I do not want your money. I do not want your gifts. There is a lot of anger in this country. The tyrannical oligarchy that you argue for like that fascist pig bass turd in the White House is turning this country on itself. If I have nothing left for my family then who do you think I will come after?
  • reACE
    You said "How can it be your property and the governments at the same time?"

    are you really this obtuse?

    we vest, through our power to elect representatives, our power to levy taxes to the govt so that it has revenue to operate.

    our representatives decide how to do this.

    "the govt" doesn't own your property. You own it. Through your power as a citizen, you allow the govt to dictate how it will collect taxes and that may mean that, ultimately, you give up more than you, as an individual, like to.

    but at that point, you either agree with our current form of governance as a representative republic, pay your taxes, and move on. OR, you decide you dont like it and while still obeying the law, work to change it through your rep. OR, you disobey the law and face the consequences in the hope of litigating changes. OR, you leave the country in the hope of living where the laws are more to your liking.

    either way, it's still your stuff.
  • Your Time is Up
    Hey mocking bird, Markos Moulitsas called and your Tour of Duty trying to irritate people and sound intelligent is over (not that you would be familiar with an actual Tour of Duty). He feels you have made enough of a fool of yourself and prefers that you quit providing credence to the contention that liberal moon bats not only distort facts, but on many occasions actually make them up.
  • Population Control
    The healthcare bill is less about saving lives as it is about thining the herd.
    Liberals believe we (HUMANS) are a blight upon the earth, and we are bad for the environment. Also, we as Americans have a great healthcare system and they want to make it more "equal" to other nations.
    The answer to their problem is to impose a healthcare plan that will allow less people to live longer, if at all, and to make us more like the third world. And then their is the rationing of healthcare as well which is going to be an "equality" issue. Health care will be distributed equally to all races. If to many white people get a treatment for the day and you show up , you will be denied care.
  • reACE
    oh man, this is rich. You were saying about those federalist papers again?

    This concept was laid out by Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78:
    “ If it be said that the legislative body are themselves the constitutional judges of their own powers, and that the construction they put upon them is conclusive upon the other departments, it may be answered, that this cannot be the natural presumption, where it is not to be collected from any particular provisions in the Constitution. It is not otherwise to be supposed, that the Constitution could intend to enable the representatives of the people to substitute their will to that of their constituents. It is far more rational to suppose, that the courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.[8]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_States

    Now, my guess then is you think this power belongs with the states?

    So, in your world, we'd have states that still allowed segregation and abortion was illegal... just as a couple examples.
  • Health care
    Why is everyone talking about the cost over the next ten years. This thing will never end. The conversation needs to be how much this will cost every year and show it will go up every year. Its not like it will stop being a entitlement program after ten years. Let's stop it now.
  • Flabbergasted
    Let's examine some examples:

    us post office: currently competes with private sector firms. Taxpayer subsidized to do so due to yearly losses. They even go so far to spend money advertising overnight services which we have to, taken by force, pay foreach and every package sent. Why are the us tAxpayers in this business?

    Amtrak: reports yesterday stated that the us government subsidies pay more than $400 for every passenger trip from san Antonio to LA. A flight would cost $160.

    Now we are going to put the government intotal control of health insurance. We have historical evidence of our success in this business through losses in the Medicare program, losses so big they are the whole impetus behind the need for reform. Our solution is to do more of the same.

    How can so many intelligent people be in support of this? Even if it is 49%, it is scary to me that people do not comprehend something so obvious.
  • oh yeahhhhhhhh.........................
    mental masterbation?????? wow!!!......sign me up!!!!!

    bet it cuts down on the mess......
  • Re: snarkybird @ 10/29/09 11:13:24 AM That didn't answer the question. In case you didn't know that statement lays out a dichotomy – you can't be said to own something if someone else owns it ?
    How can it be your property and the governments at the same time?
  • Gubmint Helfcare
    Is it true that if you put a million monkeys in a room with a million typewriters that they could turn out a dozen or so democrat healthcare proposals a day?
  • reoffthereserve
    http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/national/northeast/65775747.html

    http://www.socwk.utah.edu/pdf/IWIC4.pdf

    I'll leave it to you to tell me where I'm missing the part about liberals killing people.
  • My opinion doesn't matter, what does matter is what was clearly and succinctly written down for everyone to see in the founding documents.
    Are you now claiming that Judicial activism doesn't happen?

    That adding enough language to a ruling can pretty much make a precedent for whatever an activists judge wants it to?
  • reACE
    You asked (again) "How can it be said that we own property when the Government has an unlimited claim on it?"

    I'll reply (again)

    the limits of govt are imposed by voters and the other two branches via the power granted by the constitution.

    it's a system and it works.

    you inaccurately presume that because "the govt" has the power to levy taxes and change how it does that, that there is unchecked power there. It's not unchecked. It's just not setup how you'd like it to be.
  • Snark, Res boy, I think it's kind that your doctors are allowing you free internet time, but maybe y'all should go find that nice lady with the pretty pills and settle in with the arts and crafts helpers for awhile.

    I'm just sayin'...
  • Re: snarkybird @ 10/29/09 10:39:04 AM You asked for an example of where this has happened, I provided some.
    Other people reading these comments can clearly see that you are obfuscating the issue.

    The fact is that it has happened, and will happen again, but somehow you don't see any problem with it.

    Why is that?
  • snarkybird
    There it is, Indian Health Care - perfect example of Government Health Care that we have in the US, today. Can you comment on that? I gave you some real meat to really grab onto.

    Try it Snarkybird:

    Indian Health Care

    Comment on it? Can you really do it? Is it too hard for you to comment on? Is it fun to take away from people and kill them in return? Come on liberal. Stay with the point. Let me try again:

    Indian Health Care

    Go ahead, give it try. The government plan, how's that going to be different?
  • reACE
    You said "try reading the Federalist papers and other writings of the fathers of our country."

    Right, because no one thought to do that before now.

    cmon man, get over yourself!

    there is no tidy little secret part of the truth that you have that one day will shed some new light on how we got here or where we're going.

    this is it. it's here because we voted for it and it's all very legal in form and in process.

    it just so happens that you think it's all wrong.

    that doesnt make you right.

    you know why opinions are like a**holes right?
  • re:Nancy Peligroso
    Eff her and the white horse she rode in on. That goes for all her partners in crime...Reid, Shumer, Frank, Hoyer, Grayson, the whole bunch. It also applies to candy a$$es in the GOP like Graham, McCain, anybody who is allowing this farce to continue. This Congress is a disgrace to this country and I hope there is a real change over the next two election cycles. We have better people in this country, we deserve better representation at the highest levels. We aren't getting it and it's time to kick their a$$es to the curb. The right way, of course. I'm not a bloody anarchist.
  • Re: snarkybird [yesterday's discussion] How can it be said that we own property when the Government has an unlimited claim on it?
    Which is it?
  • Re: snarkybird @ 10/29/09 10:29:03 AM Did you actually Read what else I put in that posting?As in: That is why the Writers of the our founding documents put them in simple and straightforward language.
    They knew that given enough words, one can subvert anything.

    Hence, they kept it simple and straightforward.

    As to how to interpret how the founder thought things should be, try reading the Federalist papers and other writings of the fathers of our country.
  • rejoyce
    You said "And snarky that comment was unusually crude even for you"

    LOL!

    "A good liberal is a dead liberal."?

    I'll stand by my comment.

    offthereserve needs a good smacking around. here's to hoping his mom gets off work early today and gives it to him.
  • rejoyce
    Joyce,

    Do you really think there will be a court case at some point where all this gets ruled as unconstitutional? That all this time, there just wasn't someone like you or people who think like you to make it happen?

    seriously? 44 years and counting and you think this is still "brewing"?

    I mean, doesn't that seem just a bit arrogant? and "faith" like...

    "one day it will all be judged as illegal and we'll be rid of it!"

    meanwhile, medicare has helped millions. I'm all for changing it so that it can be solvent and I think that's possible.

    Do you know what "tilting at windmills" means?
  • reACE
    regarding your obsession with voting, I dont know how else to say this...

    were you alive for previous elections?

    or are you so far gone that you see this last one as "the beginning of the end"?

    I mean, you understand that you're giving Obama and Dems a WHOLE lot more credit than they deserve if you really think that.

    It's an election. There will be others. And history has shown your theory holds no water.

    heck, if the GOP wins big in 2010, what of your theory then??
  • Any plan is better than just saying "No!"
    How about someone,anyone direct me to the "Republican Plan for Health-Care!"
    "Just saying No" is not considered to be a viable plan against the Democratic Health-Care proposal, except on this site and others just like it!
  • reofftheres
    You said "For in your bravado to proclaim your greatness in thought and word, not one of you have done anything morally right in deed."

    I dont ever proclaim my greatness in thought. I'll tell you straight up I'm a moron. Said so many times here.

    So, let me get this straight - you think liberals (a general label for people with varying viewpoints that tend towards some commonality) should be treated like american indians were because of what they believe?

    You wish violence against liberals because of how the US govt has treated american indians?

    I thought "off the reservation" was just a play on words.

    You need help. Hope you find it but, given how you feel about me, as a liberal, I'm torn on how much.

    you're slowly drowning....
  • Serving
    Thought of the day: Are Pelosi and Reid doing this for their own power, or are they serving the interests of those who WANT to be servants to the government? Remember: TheY got there because the people put them there, and Obama got 50+ percent of the vote. SO, WHO REALLY IS TO BLAME? What you are seeing from those two should not be shocking.
  • Fantana
    One minute you sound like a liberal and the next minute you protest things about liberals. Which are you? If I am mistaken about your identity then I apologize.

    Me a regular reader of the Huffington Post? If I could shoot every liberal in Austin that shoves that Huffington filth in my face then there would be 800,000 dead liberals in Austin. I would call that a good start, if only I could. Unfortunately, I go where there is work. I take nothing from the government.

    I use the Huffington Post against liberals every chance that I get.

    Regarding the internet, I can know nothing about you either. You could be some fat blob sitting in front of the screen taking welfare checks.

    If you do not like my identity, fine. I do not believe that I presented anything here that is dishonest and not verifiable. If at heart you truly are not a liberal then I apologize.
  • reACE
    You said "Did you understand my point that with enough BS anything can be justified?"

    unless it's your BS, right? Or your own BS view of how things "should be" or how you interpret how our founders thought things "should be", every other person's view on that be damned, right?
  • Off The Reservation
    Off is more right than either Brian or snarky. And snarky that comment was unusually crude even for you. Smack you both.

    Brian you may claim to be keeping your own policy but you support this bill or so your stupid "cry baby" posts always indicate.
  • Consequences.
    To anyone who doubts that doctors will leave if any form of this garbage is passed, I'll refute your claim right now: I'm a practicing physician who will leave. I work with 23 other doctors and 16 of them are already making their departure plans. Every single one of the doctors willing to stay on is under 40 and still paying off student loans. The ones who can afford to leave are going to do so en masse.
  • Re: Benny Sokoloskis You at least have choice with private industry, what kind of choice will you have with the government?
    Been to the DMV lately?

    Any choices with that bureaucratic monstrosity?
  • Snarky now you are just being moronic
    Sorry...Medicare is how old now?

    We waited...we saw...where were you?
    By snarkybird

    Social Security August 1935

    Medicare July 1965

    Now let's see, I wasn't born till 1956. I have a feeling most of us on this board either were not yet born or were too young to vote. So what is your point? Believe me, if I had been able I would have protested both of those and now we see where they have gotten us. Both are BROKE.

    That is one of the stupidest points you continue to make. Just how old are you if you waited, you saw.

    This healthcare monstrosity being proposed is unconstitutional and will be challenged if it passes.
  • Re: snarkybird [yesterday's discussion] In response to my point that "What's to stop those people from voting in the party that will promise them the most plunder from their fellow citizens?"
    You responded: “nothing. please show me where that's happened? “

    I gave you the some prime examples:

    The one we're I referenced a woman saying that she was looking forward to not having to pay for mortgages, etc.

    And the other one from Chicago where several people waiting in line said something to the effect that the voted because of what Obama was going to give them.

    Just because you chose ignore evidence that right in front of you doesn't make it any less valid.

    Do you understand how dangerous that can be?

    Instead of voting in the best person for the job, people voting for plunder will go for the highest bidder.

    Politicians responding to this will bankrupt the country, does that sound like a good idea???????
  • snarkybird
    You are the essential liberal. I am glad that there are liberal people like you out there willing to reveal your soul to us. Everyone, take note of liberalism at its finest. It has nothing to do with morally right. It has nothing to do with giving back to anything.

    Liberalism is about selfishness. Once they get an opportunity for some power, they immediately want to take everything away through their new-found powers. Snarkybird has done nothing with his life and now sees an opportunity to take away from people that have worked hard to make a difference.

    Snarkybird, I wish to offer a prayer for you and many of your sanctimonious hypocritical liberal friends out there.

    I pray that you and your liberal friends are rounded up and beaten like was done to my ancestors and me by the KKK. I pray that like it was done to my ancestors that you and your fellow liberals are bound and have red hot irons thrust into the orifices of your bodies. I pray to the Great Spirit that your offspring are afflicted with horrendous diseases so that you can cry out in the night in anguish begging,
    “why will not this nation do one thing after taking everything from us.” And finally, I beg of the Great Spirit in my prayer that you and your liberal friends have your souls condemned to roam the parched lands of your labors, forever lost, lonely, grieving, and deafened by your own empty words. For in your bravado to proclaim your greatness in thought and word, not one of you have done anything morally right in deed.
  • Health care
    I was inform the my policy for Blue Cross is going up 11% next year. The next day they send me a letter that they want me to contact my congressman to vote against healthcare reform. Of the two evils in health care I will take the goverment over the insurance companies. I do feel it will be cheaper then the companies and I will not have a boardroom deciding for me what healthcare I can only to get.
  • gimme, gimme, gimme
    Medicare is how much in the red?
  • Off the reservation is NUTS
    I have never read Huffington Post, so how is it mine? If you dont like it so much then why do you read it?

    I also am not a fan of government/public healthcare. In fact i have consistently said that I will keep my own private healthcare.

    Enjoy lying and hating Americans Off the reservation who claims to be an Indian. Isnt the internet great how you can lie all the time?

    "Make Love Not War"-everyone but off the reservation

    hahahahaha
  • Re: snarkybird So you think we should just let the Statists destroy the country overloading it with entitlements that can't be paid for and justified by Judicial activism, the Constitution be dammed?
    Did you understand my point that with enough BS anything can be justified?

    That is why the Writers of the our founding documents put them in simple and straightforward language.

    They knew that power hungry tyrants would come along and try to subvert the country internally.
  • rejoyce
    wait and see?

    Sorry...Medicare is how old now?

    We waited...we saw...where were you?
  • In your opinion
    frankly, you just become noise at that point.
    By snarkybird

    Let's just wait and see.
  • Healthcare
    This has an only slightly better chance than a snowball in hell. The tea party machine is already getting fired up about it.
  • reACE
    LOL

    So, you've just jumped ahead to the part where the courts rule this as legal and started complaining about judicial activism?

    talk about intellectual masturbation.

    ""It's unconstitutional!" (SCOTUS rules it as constitutional) "Judicial activism!"

    frankly, you just become noise at that point.
  • Let them do it
    Neal,

    You and I both know sooner or later some form of government takeover of the healthcare system will happen. Why not now? The faster the parasites (moochers and looters) start draining their hosts (producers) too much, the faster the hosts (producers) will realise they need to get rid of them.
  • HR 3200
    Remember my last words from "The Wrath of Kahn". "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one". If you keep up denying this you will never be able to join the Federation. And ignore what Kirk said in later movies it's not relevant.

    Live short & prosper, Nancy needs the money but not the liability costs.
  • Brian Fantana
    Mr Fantana, you seem to be such a big fan of Government Health Care. So explain to me this. We have Government Health Care today for Native Americans. This is not an entitlement program. This is an OBLIGATION, by treaty, and by the Snyder Act of 1921. Your very own Huffington Post has this to say about Government Health Care known as IHC (Indian Health Care).

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090615/us-health-care-s-forgotten/

    How do you fix that? You want to subject everyone to Government Health Care??? Here is an example of Government controlled health care. After reading that article, how is Government Health Care that you are proposing going to be different Mr. Fantana? Why would you not fix those things you are OBLIGATED to before taking on greater responsibilities????
  • reoffthereserve
    You need to be smacked like the baby you are.

    how pathetic. lose an election and can't take it.

    does mom know you lie flat like this for everything that makes you mad? why don't you walk upstairs and ask her?

    I know dogs with more sack than you.
  • Impacts of the bill.
    If any of you think doctors will not leave your sadly mistaken. After a fund raiser recently for our "Open Door Clinic" (Dr.s who volunteer evening hours for those who have no insurance). Several Drs. I sat with who are in their 50's are already cutting back in prepartion for the comming assault. The surgeon who will now take 3 months off every year to go hunting, the Pathologist who now takes one week a month off to protect her eyes from the growing case load (and is required by CMS (Medicare) to take a recertification exam every year with slides that look like they were left outside and bleached at Alamagordo by an A-bomb), and a third who will only work 6 months and spend the rest of his time in Iraq & Afganistan,and Landsthul where he feels his time is BEST SERVED because these folks (Soldiers and residents)really appreciate the service he provides. Just wait!
  • Speaking of overstating, has Obama saved your job?
    Welcome to the government. If it's to their benefit, it's overstated and under estimated:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091029/ap_on_bi_ge/us_stimulus_jobs

    And even though the White House acknowledges there are errors, the overestimate is still being displayed to the public as the accurate count.

    Liberal: liar, cheat, thief.

    A good liberal is a dead liberal.
  • This Is Good News
    Bring it, SanFranNan. Put your money (ok...MY money) where your acid-eating, lie-spouting mouth is, and bring a vote to the House floor, and after it fails, you're DONE, sister.
  • There is a way...
    Neal, you say that there is no way to get people off the government dependence once they are on. I disagree - there is a way - you promise them so many entitlements that you bankrupt the federal government trying to provide them. Then the 50 states start over, hopefully with a serious conversation about the original vision of our country and the lessons learned in our sinking our country...
  • Where these actions are authorized in our Constitution? The leftists would simply reply that due to the wonders of Judicial activism, they can spew so much BS in a court decision that blue can mean yellow.
    It's not right and it's certainly not what the fathers of the country meant to set up, but the leftists don't give egret excrement about that.

    Power over the people, that's all the Left cares about.
  • Why government healthcare is a bad idea, simply put
    Neal said:

    "more doctors will certainly decide to opt out of treating Medicare patients. Then the government will come along to tell them they can't. Then the doctors will tell the government to go pound sand and will simply retire. This will mean a shortage of doctors that will come at the exact same time demand for services will increase. This will mean waiting lines. This will mean rationing. "

    Succinct and eloquent, this is exactly the case against government health care.

    The most intelligent rebuttal to this is "no that won't happen". Sorry, yes it will. Want proof? Look no further than Canada. The exodus of doctors from Canada (principally to the US) is well documented and is fact.

    It WILL happen here folks. Hey AARP, have ya 'splained that one to your members???
  • *sniff* *sniff*
    I think I smell a trip to the supreme court if this passes.
  • BORING
    This wont pass, the public option is the only thing that will pass. This is just getting boring now w/ all the crybaby conservatives crying about every piece of paper the government prints out.
  • Health Care
    Can't opt out of medicare what about can't retire...

    can an insurance company charge a higher premium for people with pre-existing conditions. they do for smokers...
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