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Today's Nuze

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

BOY DID I STEP IN IT --- BUT NO APOLOGIES

By
Neal Boortz
@ October 26, 2009 8:57 AM Permalink | Comments (159) | TrackBacks (0)

Webguy and Cristina tell me that I have a lot of thongs in a wad over a caller to the show on Friday. We haven't seen hate mail like this in a long time. Someone went to the Church of the Painful Truth and apparently didn't like the sermon. I love it! So if you want to hear how I stirred the puddin', listen to Nealz Nuze today during the Information Overload Hour at 12:35PM ET. Or if you missed it, just listen here. In the meantime, here is a taste of the emails:

  • Name: john
    Subject: your attitude
    your conversation with the unemployed construction worker with 4 kids was so degrading!!! not everyone can be a college grad nor does that guarantee success in life. you are such a snob. i could see you treating the poor & unfortunate as hitler did the jews. my grandaughter just graduated gov school with a 4.2 average & started univ of central fla as a sophmore due to college accredited honor classes in high school. her parents were not irresponble but wonderful loving parents. not everyone can afford a private school. get real neal!!!
    Right ... invoke Hitler. That's always a good move for small minds. And would someone please teach John where the "shift" key is?
  • Name: Robert
    Subject: todays show
    Today I was unimpressed with your show, in paticular the call from the construction worker, the one you cut off and railroaded for have 4 kids. You called him uneducated which just because someone didnt or couldnt go to collage does not make him stupid. I myself am a electrical contractor and take alook around your office and tell me could you do what you see? I bet not. We, like it or not are middle class America so you slamming us that make your privileged world go around isnt helping a thing, most times I can listen in , Today I think you crossed a line that I found offensive
    Huh? Slamming construction workers? This has nothing to do with the things in my office. It's about people, construction workers or airline pilots, having children they can't afford to raise. So many of our national problems can be blamed on this one behavior.
     
  • Name: Jo
    Subject: Food stamp caller
    Your tirade against the father of four who now uses food stamps was a disgrace. His taxes, for years, went to pay for others to eat; now that he has need, you dare rail against him like he is some low-life deadbeat? You shot yourself in the head as far as I am concerned, pal. This listener is gone for good.
    Ahhhh ... another one of those "I'm never going to listen to you again" emails. If I lost a listener for every one of these emails I get I would have been off the radio years ago. By the way ... there is no evidence this man has ever paid income taxes.

  • Name: Cecilia
    Subject: unemployed construction worker on today's show
    Iknow part of your spiel is "in your face" dialogue, but I just want to say I was disturbed with your message to the construction worker who called in and said he was currently unemployed. Your diatribe against him personally was shameful. Whenever one has to belittle someone and attack their personal integrity to try and make a point, really in my opinion has no valid point to make ... Your words to that gentleman were cruel and unnecessary. You could have given your perspective without the name calling (Mooch?) and insults. Blatant disrespect towards any human being will never further your agenda because it reveals a degraded heart. I hope you are really not that bitter towards your fellow man. I will pray for you!
    Sorry, Cecilia. I had a point to make, and it wasn't going to be made by me stroking this guy and telling him everything was going to be OK.

Well ... there's the reaction to that call from the construction worker. Now .. my response:

THE CONSTRUCTION WORKER VISITS THE CHURCH OF THE PAINFUL TRUTH

As you can see from those emails, more than a few of you were upset with my conversation with the construction worker last Friday. To recap: We had an out of work construction worker with six mouths to feed ... and he had made the decision to use the police power of government to seize someone else's property for his personal use. In other words .. he was on food stamps.

Ohhhhh .... that upsets you? Aw ... I'm sorry! Want me to kiss it and make it all better for you? What are you here for? Do you want me to just say things on the air that will make you nod your head and say "attaboy Neal!" You don't like your way of thinking challenged? Tell you what, why don't you write a set of rules and parameters for looters? Why don't you tell us when its OK to use the government to force the transfer of wealth from someone else to you, and when it's not. The world awaits your list of reasons that it would OK for you to use force to seize someone else's property. Theft is theft. Looting is looting .. no matter whether you do it for yourself, or use an agent like the government. Need is not a defense that will help you to escape punishment for your crime. If you hire someone to kill for you, you're guilty of murder. Why is it so different when you hire (vote for) someone to steal for you?

Your whining and moaning emails reminded me that this poor construction worker was out of work. He's not alone. You were upset that I have him a hard time for having four kids he couldn't feed.

Let's look at this situation without all the emotion for a minute. You ready? It's time for the PAINFUL TRUTH!

The estimate of what it takes to raise a child from fetus to 18 ranges from $200,000 to $250,000. That means our construction worker needs up to one million dollars to do an adequate job or raising his four kids. More than a million if he wants to put them through college.

I spent some time over the weekend on the Internet trying to learn a bit more about just what the average construction worker brings home. CareerBuilder.com has a website where you can research salaries and wages for thousands of jobs. The average salary for construction workers across the country is $29,805. In Atlanta that number is $26,746.

The United States Department of Health and Human Services issues poverty guidelines referred to as the "federal poverty level." Our construction worker has a family of six. The federal poverty level for a family that size is $29,530. In other words, the average wage in Atlanta for our construction worker with his family of six is below the federal poverty level. And that is IF he can find work.

You want some reality? Try this: Looking at these average wage figures, this man needs to work steadily for over 37 years just to pay the cost of raising those four children. He's a construction worker! What are the chances for this type of steady employment year-after-year for 37 years! No construction worker with any sense expects to be employed week after week, year after year. Oh .. and buy the way, that 37-year figure is somewhat bogus. Let's say these kids are three years apart. The oldest was nine when the youngest was born. That gives him 27 years, not 37, to earn that million bucks ... or end up over his head in debt. That $37,000 a year. You're not going to do that on a construction worker's wages.

Here's the bottom line. Our construction worker made a conscious decision to have four children. He knew, or he should have know if he had paid any attention at all, that his chosen field of construction work was not barley going to allow him and his family to live at the poverty level. A college education for his children? Well, you can pretty much forget that unless they excel in sports, or they have a rich grandma somewhere.

Well here's someone who deserves our pity, right? Look at the decisions he's made. Education? Maybe high school. If there was a college degree in the picture he wouldn't be a construction worker. (Well .. he could, I guess, be one of those brainiacs who pursued a degree in English or history.) Then ... after deciding to forego higher education, he gets married and starts downloading children - each with a $200,000 or more price tag - at a pretty fair clip; stopping at four. He's chosen employment in an industry where continued and steady employment is, at best, problematic, ... and he starts having children like a hamster; children that he cannot afford to raise. Then the inevitable happens. The work dries up. He can't feed his family ... and he decides it's time to take advantage of the willingness of the political class to seize property from private citizens and give it to him in return for his support and vote. Then, of course, I'm the bad guy when I point all this out!

I'm sorry folks, but you can meekly submit to this looting, but I'm not going to. If a person asks my help, that's one thing. Most Americans are more than willing to step forward and offer help to people in a tough spot; especially when children are involved. There are many private charities out there; and a community of churches, synagogues and mosques more than willing to help. But that's not what our construction worker has done. Instead, he has gone to the government - the only entity out there that can use deadly force to accomplish its goals - and, pointing a finger at his more productive neighbor, tells the government to "take that guy's money and give it to me. I have mouths to feed." One person's good decision-making and hard work should not set him up as a target for plunder by someone who has made poor decisions.

No excuses. If you're using food stamps - by whatever name - you are using the government as an instrument of plunder. You are instructing your political representatives to steal - to transfer wealth from those who earned it to you. Make all the excuses you want .. but you're a thief. Ditto for Section 8 housing and a variety of other government welfare programs.

One more thing ... there's this argument which says "Well, he paid his taxes, so now there's nothing wrong if he goes on food stamps for a while." Oh really? How about a shoplifter saying "Hey, I shopped at this store for years and paid for everything! Now I don't have the money, so it should be OK for me to take a few things I need." Yeah .... Works for me.

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What others are saying

  • Construction
    Neal, I agree with you for slamming the construction worker for having the government pick my pocket to feed his kids. I am writing this comment because it seemed you were slamming the construction industry along with the moocher. In your conversation, you made a few comments I would like to address. The first is that he is not educated. Construction workers may not go through the traditional college route to aquire an education but there are many specialized training opportunities to develope skills that you will not find in college. Education comes in many forms. Over the years, I went from laborer to Senior Construction Inspector. I live comfortable and well within my means, no mooching off the government and overall I am happy with my life. I have taken a number of certification classes throughout the years and am currently enrollled in a certificate in construction management program offered by Washington University. This will help me climb the next rung of the construction industry ladder. With that said, if you respond to this comment, please give your definition of "educated" or "not educated".
    The second comment you made, was that he was a sheetrock worker or someone carrying hot loads of brick. It does not matter what he did for a living. But the tone in your voice seemed disparaging to the construction trades. I take great pride in the construction industry. It was not the caller's choice to work construction that turned him into a moocher but his choice to live beyond his means or his refusal to go where the work is ongoing. Bash the moocher not the construction industry.
    The third comment you made was with regards to the state of the construction industry. I agree the industry has had many changes over the years. The biggest change is that small localities/towns do not have enough work to sustain a large pool of available workers(skilled or unskilled). Many construction workers need to travel or move to maintain success. It may not be the type of life some people would want but if you do not like it go to another industry. Over the years, I have travelled throughout the southeast and have made new friends, worked on a wide variety of jobs, never mooched off the governement, earned an honest living and loved every minute of it. I truly love construction. A sense of pride knowing I was a part of building something that would be profitable and benefitial to others. I guess it is in my blood. I may not get my hands as dirty as I once did. But every day I do express my appreciation to the crew for a job well done. Construction jobs are out there, especially for those who take pride in what they do. It all depends if you have the motivation to go after them.
    With that said, Neal keep up the great work. But, please bash the moochers not the construction industry.
    By Brian @ 11/04/09 09:57:35 PMreport abuse
  • Re Michelle
    Please get your tubes tied for the betterment of all mankind.
    By theoneyouforgotabout @ 10/29/09 05:54:37 PMreport abuse
  • Jobs!
    People always say "I can't get a job", this is not true. What you mean to say is "I can't get the job I want". Life is not always about getting what you want. My mother once worked three jobs just to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. If you asked her today if she wanted to work those three jobs she would say "no". You do what you have to do, you don't have to be on food stamps you choose to be on food stamps. Those that are old enough and are able bodied need to get a job. ANY JOB is BETTER than no job. If you have bills piling up and your browsing through the paper looking for that perfect job. Then you are being nit picky and you deserve getting kicked out of your house maybe you need to fall flat on your face in order to pick up the peices. I appreciate the one guy "Things that make you go "hmmmm"." he actually did the honest thing he downsized, he picked himself up and he started over. Everyone has bumps in the road it is how you handle it that matters.
    By JS @ 10/28/09 01:44:47 PMreport abuse
  • Construction
    Gee Neal, you can put together a hypothetical situation for anybody. Unfortunately we'll never know if any of this applies in this case since you cut the guy off and went on a rant.

    I'm sure I'll still tune in on occasion but most days I'll flip over to WLW where they're a little less elite and always entertaining.

    In summary, keep on raving about any thing that affects YOUR pocket book and don't worry about the fact that as long as you live in a society you have to pull your own weight and fulfill you obligations to that society. (Just as we support civil aviation so you can enjoy flying your own private aircraft.)
    By Tom @ 10/27/09 06:29:57 PMreport abuse
  • Construction Worker
    Neal, if you would shut up long enough and listen the guy told you he usally pays the IRS $30,000 a year, he was making over $100,000 per year until the economy went south. He could have had one child and still be in the same situation. I feel he paid into the system enough so it is his time for the system to help him out.
    By Gwen @ 10/27/09 03:25:06 PMreport abuse
  • Painful Truth
    That is exactly what it is. Church of the Painful Truth. I have made many poor irresponsible decisions, none equaling four children, but I believe Neal is right. I would imagine this man gave no consideration or thought to these children before conception. And yes, paying thirty some thousand dollars a year to the IRS is a burn, no doubt. But a person has to stand by his principles. We are forced, strong armed to pay taxes. That does not mean we should take from others. Even if the government says it is ok and it does so themselves. The fact that we are forced to pay taxes should be indicative of the fact that the government is rarely right and should never be used as an example.This guy made poor choices and we (taxpayers) are paying for them. He is not alone, obviously. But he should have known better than to call Neal and ask for a hankie!
    By Michelle @ 10/27/09 07:48:32 AMreport abuse
  • Missing the point...and there are way to many of you.
    I have read most of these posts over the last two days during my lunch break and before work. The one thing that sticks out is the how easily so many of you miss the point.

    So fast are the masses to jump on the "boo hoo bandwagon" that Neils major point is missed. It is very evident in the posters that try to compare Neil's bashing of this man to him defending the talent of the CEOs. If you actually think about Neil's points...they are the same.

    Neil is bashing this mans decisions but it is mainly directed at the fact this man is using Government to steal from the masses for his own needs. Neil said the same about the bail outs. The company's made stupid moves and used Government to steal from the masses for thier needs.

    Neil's defense of the CEO's is only in the aspect of the GOVERNMENT STEPPING IN AND FORCING THEM TO TAKE A PAY CUT.

    Now let's say if this Construction Man started working again. This time for a salary above what other construction workers are getting paid (this is after he forced Government to steal for his family's needs)and the Government stepped in and said "Nope, sorry you are getting paid way to much. We are going to tax you on 99% of your pay because it's not fair to the others" and Neil defended gubments actions....then you people would have a good comparison.

    Neil's not saying that...he is just saying stop using governmetn to steal....its wrong...and I agree.
    By NavyBuckeye @ 10/27/09 06:03:40 AMreport abuse
  • Bastiat on Plunder
    In "The Law," Frederic Bastiat writes that "when a portion of wealth passes out of the hands of him who acquired it, without his consent, and without compensation, to him who has not created it, whether by force or by artifice, I say that property is violated, that plunder is perpetrated." He goes on to say that "he who profits from the plunder is not responsible for it; it is the law, the lawgiver, society itself, and this is where the political danger lies."
    Even the great Bastiat would agree that it is not the individual's fault for taking part in a program or society which takes wealth from the few. Indeed, it is the state and the politicians who "represent" society who are mainly at fault as they create the instrument of this coercive power.
    By thamanjimmy @ 10/27/09 12:17:23 AMreport abuse
  • Where the heck did you pull these numbers Neal!?
    $250k to raise a kid?! Perhaps if you buy them every darn Wii, XBox 360, cell phones, etc. And then feed them steak and lobster!

    But of course you have to use the puffed up number to prove your point that this guy should not have kids, because he couldn't afford them.

    But that $250K to raise a child is a load of crap! That sounds like some sort of figure from a government agency. I don't think I would rely on it too much.
    By Scott @ 10/26/09 11:51:11 PMreport abuse
  • Couldn't have said it better myself
    You go Neil!
    By Dave @ 10/26/09 10:18:18 PMreport abuse
  • Sorry Neal, you're wrong on this one.
    First point: no one would calculate precisely on the cost of have children; not even you. You are doing it now because you have the time, money and a point to make.
    Second point: It's the system. Our government set it up. For most Americans, we would do whatever it takes to provide for our family; it's our responsibility. It isn't stealing or mooching because chances are most of us paid into it (involuntarily) already.
    If you're voting against the system and you're taking the money then you're not a mooch because you're getting your money back, but if you're voting for the system and you're taking the money then... you're a mooch!
    Just take away the system.
    By Vaugh @ 10/26/09 10:17:10 PMreport abuse
  • Best Quote Ever
    "The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is... legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay ... If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system." - Frederic Bastiat
    By Scott @ 10/26/09 09:05:43 PMreport abuse
  • ...so many waaaah comments
    What I notice, Neal, is all the whining, and how you were 'lucky' and 'got breaks' and are 'more fortunate'. Life 'throws curve balls' and 'nobody wants to be on food stamps' and all that kind of malarky.

    BS, whiners! John said it best, I think: 'this country was founded by people who never expected a handout in a world that couldn't imagine it.'

    You are where you are, in the circumstances you have, by your own decisions, at whatever level. TONS of people have had it rough without sticking out their hand to anyone, and learned something from it, to prevent it happening again, and if it does, how to deal with it then.

    I don't need or want government to assist me, and the handouts have crippled this nation, as evidenced by the League of Extraordinary Compassionate Reasonable People here represented.

    Man up, people! Sheesh.
    By Martin @ 10/26/09 08:50:55 PMreport abuse
  • Disgusted
    After reading all the comments, I am disgusted with Neal and most of you. I posted up earlier but this time it is personal.

    I am on Food Stamps. I lost a job in the construction industry. I was an executive with the company and made a very good living. After losing the job I worked three jobs and was injured on one of the jobs. Due to the way the laws are written due to the very strong insurance lobby, I am paid very very little.

    I am in the battle of my life trying to get surgery, so I can get to back to work and get off this assistance.

    If that makes me a mooch, then you can smooch my @$$. I suggest all of you try walking in another man's shoes before you are so quick and arrogant to criticize.
    By Me @ 10/26/09 08:48:16 PMreport abuse
  • Come on Neal Really?
    OK don't get me wrong I love Neal's show but we definitely have our disagreements. Now I also didn't like Neal's comments toward the construction worker, my dad has been in construction since before I was born (1979). I think the problem lies in this "he probably never even paid income taxes CRAP".

    Neals quote "By the way ... there is no evidence this man has ever paid income taxes."

    OK Neal By the way ... there is no evidence this man has ever NOT paid income taxes.



    My father made his way from a poor construction worker to owning his own company. Did he always have money? NO! BTW I am a twin and I have a older sister. My parents split when I was about 3 or so. He remarried and now has a step son and 3 step daughters as well. So thats 3 of his and 4 of hers. He didn't have his own home till he was about 35 or so. He now has about 50 acres with a nice 3500 sqft house all paid for. Did having so many kids hurt him financially throughout the years? Sure... but should he not have had any?

    Arguing this with Neal is surprising.. Being such a hard core libertarian.
    By Lesley-TN @ 10/26/09 08:03:17 PMreport abuse
  • robbing peter to pay paul
    I find it funny that anyone would go on such a tangent over the government taking money from one and giving to another in one instance and applaud it in other instances. Gov is force no doubt, but lets have a little consistency
    By greg @ 10/26/09 06:58:53 PMreport abuse
  • @ JBB
    Wait until every adopts your attitude. Hey, look at all of that free money! Why work when I can just take, take, take, take. Continue to punish the rich and reward the failures.

    The construction worker is living at the expense of another human being, it matters not that some how we have justified legalized theft. Individuals have no moral right to live this way.

    We are suppose to be set up as a government based on delegated consent. Government can not have any right that I don't have. Since I can't, at the point of a gun force my neighbors to fork over their money for my kids/healthcare/food, I have no right to hire someone to do so, nor can I vote for someone to do so.

    This is why I'm pessimistic. Everyone is anti-government until their pet program gets questioned, then suddenly government becomes grand.

    We have entered an age of government dependency where there is no more shame in going on the doll.

    Failure and hardship is a virtue, success and profit are evils.

    Atlas is shrugging, you have been warned.
    By VTHS @ 10/26/09 06:54:20 PMreport abuse
  • construction workers and kids
    I am not able to listen to the show so I've only been able to read whats posted on here, but did the caller actually say what he does in the construction field and/or what his income is? Or is Neal basing this off of a very broad def of a construction worker? Sure there are some people who make very little in construction, but there are also people who make a lot of money in construction. And I think Neal made a mistake assuming he'd make the same income every year. I would think most people would strive to move up or own their own crew, etc if they stayed in the industry. Therefore his income would go up through the years.
    Also, about the kids, did the caller say they were trying to have those kids? Because birth control isn't perfect. Believe me. I have three kids and my wife became pregnant with the first two while on birth control (pill for first, patch for second). So they came way before we ever expected to have kids. If you would have taken my income at the time and assumed I would make that every year for my life, then I never would have been able to afford my kids as Neal was saying. But guess what, my income has since gone up as is typicall with most people through their working careers. I currently make more than 2x what I was making when I had my first child.
    Now if the caller wanted those 4 kids early in his life dispite only making that much money, then thats different.
    By Kenneth @ 10/26/09 05:10:33 PMreport abuse
  • Things that make you go "hmmmm."
    I understand the point being made here by you Neal, however I just wanted to add my $0.02 worth.

    Does this man have a cell phone? Does he have a wide screen LCD (or Plasma) Television hooked up to Hi-Def cable? Is him and his wife running around in a new automobile or two? Is he a smoker? Is he a drinker? Is he going to movies, going out to dinner, or going to the store on Friday to buy that "beer" that most construction workers do these days?

    I once was a construction worker. A roofer if you will. In Florida of all places. It was tough, the pay was low and it was a job that pushed me to my limits physically and emotionally. I had 2 children at the time and they downsized, resulting in me getting being let go. We thought about getting food stamps, but I just couldn't bring myself to do so. What did we do? We sold our home, we sold our car, we had a yard sale that got rid of all of our nice TV's, etc. What we didn't sell, we kept and moved into a small duplex and then payed off all debt owed. We also quit drinking.

    I then took the opportunity to go to College, and I got my degree. I am now in another state sporting a somewhat decent paying career that I absolutely enjoy waking up and going to do everyday. We had our 3rd child a year ago and my wife is now toying with the thought of going to college herself. (Although she doesn't have to work, but is choosing to do so on her own accord).

    My point in all of this is:

    Most people that hit rock bottom will not give up their "material things" or their "obsessive habits" when push comes to shove in today's society. They would rather retain their items and keep their bad ways, than go looking for hand outs. In this case, it was food stamps.

    People need to do the "right" thing. Not the "easiest" thing when it comes to the responsibility of ones actions.

    @ Aaron: If a parent can teach a kid about the importance of good grades and the importance of a college education, then maybe his crappy job and crappy decisions will not transfer to the kids.

    I guess once white trash, always white trash in your eyes...
    By Ted @ 10/26/09 04:44:24 PMreport abuse
  • Bill and Scott
    Thank you for validating my position that your original argument was childish. Your response including the name-calling is something we have come to expect from liberals who cannot compete in the arena of ideas. The only thing that surprises me is that you did not call me a Nazi. I’m glad your family worked hard after the depression and is now prosperous. Apparently you did not have to worry about an education and are able to live off their assistance. As a synonym of prosperous includes “welfare,” I am sure it applies to your situation or does your government education tell you that prosperous only means rich? Thank you again for validating my position. No you did not hit a nerve. My original comment was to Neal. My response to you was mostly to suggest that you should mind your own business when you do not know what you are talking about but I guess it was too difficult for you to understand how anybody can object to anything Neal says. Sorry I did not get to listen to him today. I was at a job. You should try it sometime. Ca-ca, po-po…how quaint. Maybe you would feel better about yourself if you found work at a day-care center…the children would not be too far ahead of you intellectually. I’m sure you could catch up in a short time and you will be glad to know that most daycare centers also serve Koolaid.
    By Bill @ 10/26/09 04:37:55 PMreport abuse
  • PART II
    "One more thing ... there's this argument which says "Well, he paid his taxes, so now there's nothing wrong if he goes on food stamps for a while." Oh really? How about a shoplifter saying "Hey, I shopped at this store for years and paid for everything! Now I don't have the money, so it should be OK for me to take a few things I need." Yeah .... Works for me."
    Neal, did the store establish a rule or norm of providing free food to those who "need" it? I would think such action would eventually lead to the demise of the store. Government, however, through our wonderful representatives create programs that do provide free food etc. for those who "need" it. For this reason I believe this argument is fallible.
    Again, it seems it would be in the best interest of anyone, regardless of education or wealth, to take part in programs that offer "free" materials (whether it food stamps or corporate welfare). The difference depends specifically on your power to vote - whether it is used to support welfare programs or not.
    In conclusion, people please take advantage of the system as it can only be used to further strengthen the argument for a small government. Until that day when the power of government is reduced (which will never happen) just keep on living as a "thief" and act in your self-interest by taking any benefit that is provided to you. Hopefully one day people will realize what is happening...
    By thamanjimmy @ 10/26/09 04:24:40 PMreport abuse
  • Welfare Is Not Stealing
    "No excuses. If you're using food stamps - by whatever name - you are using the government as an instrument of plunder. You are instructing your political representatives to steal - to transfer wealth from those who earned it to you. Make all the excuses you want .. but you're a thief. Ditto for Section 8 housing and a variety of other government welfare programs."
    I believe this argument is weak as an individual can only control who he votes for, he cannot control who other people vote for.
    In addition, it is solely in your self-interest to take part in a program if it benefits you. And while it is in your self-interest to take part in the program it may not be in your self-interest to vote for someone who supports such a program. Why should this individual not be allowed to take part in a program that was created by and with the support of the American people? I can rest easy knowing that I voted for a Libertarian and yet, at the same time, take part of a "welfare" program established (most likely unconstitutionally) by the government.
    If you take food stamps you are only taking part in a program that is paid for directly and indirectly through federal schemes such as tariff controls, Medicare and social security taxes (taken directly from your paycheck even though you will most likely not be receiving such assistance), the ever increasing and growing budget of the federal government, etc. etc.
    Regardless of whether you pay "income taxes" or not, you are paying for these programs indirectly as your wages are lowered and the money you earn is worth substantially less thus lowering your standard of living (due to the above federal schemes).
    I do, however, support your conclusion only IF the individual using food stamps voted for a representative who supports such use. This is why I vote for only a few, if any, people in US elections.
    By thamanjimmy @ 10/26/09 04:24:11 PMreport abuse
  • I am amazed at the level of righteous indignation in this crowd. How easy you find it to preach down to others from your positions of security. You scream, "Don't have kids you cant afford... Don't complain... Where's your savings? Get a job… You’re just a lazy bastard... Welfare Mooch!!!" That line of diatribe is annoying and irrelevant. Anyone of us could find ourselves in the position this construction worker is in. Right now things are great. Big house, fancy car, steady job with a decently high salary. Savings and retirement. But lose that job, get sick, experience a family tragedy, and see just how fleeting all that is. You folks shouldn’t feel so smug. Things change in a flash, and then it will be someone else who’s calling you a welfare broodmare.
    By Common Sense @ 10/26/09 04:18:08 PMreport abuse
  • As usual, both sides have merit.
    I am usually unable to listen to the show but based on Neal's writing, I find both sides with merit.

    It is obvious that the choice to have four children when your only source of income is inconsistent and low paying work is illogical. However, life choices such as reproduction cannot be made strictly on the basis of logic. To do so is to inevitably reduce the value of human life to a number. The consequences of such are easy to conceive.

    Neal's argument is solid on the point that using the government as a means of charity is unwise. Charity exists in many other ways and to give the power of monetary redistribution to the government leads inevitably to people being forced to vote not for what is best for the country, but what will fill their stomachs.
    By MH @ 10/26/09 04:15:48 PMreport abuse
  • Construction Worker Tirade
    Jeez! Neal, what's next? Berating Nuns because they aren't producers in our society?
    Neal, not everyone is as 'lucky' (yes, I AM using that term because that's just what you are to get started in that business!... LUCKY!) as you. I know, once you get the job you have to be able to produce to keep it; which by the way, is not luck. Neal, I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that 'it takes all kinds for this world to work.' I know, you had a "point" to make. (Which I agree, if you are planning your career to work at McDonalds then maybe raising a lot of hungry mouths to feed isn't a good idea!) We get it! That message could have been conveyed with more tact is all. Besides, if it bothers you THAT MUCH then would it not make sense to convey your message in a tone that is paletable so it can be accepted easier rather than with the 'SOUR' after-taste you had given it just to satisfy your expression of frustration with the issue?
    Let me know what you think Neal.
    By James Bowen @ 10/26/09 04:14:58 PMreport abuse
  • WOW CONSTRUCTION OWNER
    You were totally out of line.... I live in a community that has many construction families out of work due to some very smart college educated bankers who gamed the system. Before you cut off that hard working father of four who ponied up his 30,000 in taxes you should have just listened to what he had to say. Hope Obama's boy Chavez doesn't have a treat for you in the way of a pink slip when we adopt his way of silencing radio personalities with college degrees. Maybe you could call that father of four when he picks up some work and get some advice on where to stand in and get some of that money you've paid in to the goverment all these years of your success. Wow Neal , we are all upset with the redistribution of wealth but don't take it out on someone who has worked no matter their education level... we are all in this sinking ship together. America was built on the backs of people just like your caller.. many self educated, self directed, self employeed ... remember that next time you call your electrician, plumber, trim carpenter, roofer, etc.
    By Cathy @ 10/26/09 04:10:42 PMreport abuse
  • @Twisted
    Thank you for reminding me of why I am not Libertarian anymore.

    Liberals give the undeserving to enslave them.

    Libertarians give nothing to anyone so they can go out and die in the cold.

    Neither place I want to live! The person that gives nothing of self to a person in need will also yell out in need one day, and their call will go unanswered.

    The Founders pledged their lives and their fortunes. Today's America either pledges someone else's fortune or nothing at all. Very sad.
    By Matt @ 10/26/09 04:09:13 PMreport abuse
  • Do'nt use the Duggar family as examples of deadbeats
    "Well, Neal, what do you think of the Duggar family with the 18 kids? Are they deadbeats too?"

    You are an IDIOT. The Duggar family is debt free. That was due to sacrificial choices they made early on. They aren't a welfare-biting family, don't use food stamps, and never have. They sustain themselves. THEIR choice.
    By Greg @ 10/26/09 03:53:29 PMreport abuse
  • Question for Neal
    Neal, what kind of work would you do if you lost your voice?
    By Jim @ 10/26/09 03:51:22 PMreport abuse
  • @ Tim - Ohio Libertarian
    Tim, that's my point exactly. Some guy loses his job without having a 100k saved in the bank and needs food stamps. Neal will blast him. A CEO sells D- high risk bonds as A+ causing a financial meltdown needing tax money assistance, and Neal will kiss that CEO's ass calling them "talent" when the Obama admin comes in cutting salaries.

    Both require Federal assistance. Both made bad decisions (though the worker's probably not nearly as bad as the CEO's) and Neal thinks one guy has talent while the other is a loser.

    If these CEO's didn't cause so many lost jobs and a market meltdown, I wouldn't be so burnt from people kissing their asses. Especially when, as you pointed out and I agree, Neal and most here thought the bailouts were a bad idea to begin with. Back then, I believe Neal was referring to these CEO's as making poor decisions.
    By Samael @ 10/26/09 03:36:20 PMreport abuse
  • The real problem...
    What I just can't get over about this whole situation and the thousands of stories just like it is the fact that the kids are the ones who genuinely suffer.

    While the dad was at the 7-11 every Friday buying a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon he should have dropped an extra $3.00 and got himself some Trojan-triple-ply condoms too (since the money used to flow like water, of course...)

    But no, instead this douchebag has 4 kids who will never have a chance in life... They'll never afford college, they'll marry white trash because their old man can't break off a $20-spot for them to take a "proper" date to McDonald's on a Saturday night, and the gift goes on and on...

    But hell, at least those kids will all be Democrat's so - everything has actually gone perfectly to plan!

    This construction worker fellow is a douchebag - unfortunately for his family, it's too late and they'll just have join the beggar class of society...

    Thanks for having the nads enough to call this guy out Neal! Cheers!
    By Aaron @ 10/26/09 03:19:52 PMreport abuse
  • Temporary Safety Net
    I'll concede food stamps as a TEMPORARY safety net, although I didn't apply when I was out of work for 3 months. There are plenty of part time jobs available, many that provide tips, so there is no excuse for this guy to milk the system. I did go to college, and I am gainfully employed - I even have the flexibility to change careers if the need should arise - and I still shop at Goodwill. My sob story is at least as emotionally draining as his. The big difference between us - I admit that my bad decisions got me into a hole, and my good decisions got me out of it.
    By Woody @ 10/26/09 03:07:42 PMreport abuse
  • Scott's take on Bill's take on Scott's take
    Wow Bill. Hit a nerve? I don't believe I made any personal attacks on you. I pointed out what you said, inferred that one cannot prove that he gets his meals for free and then gave my opinion on the subject. You said I'm childish, that I painted yo with a broad brush, that I am part of some kiss up group, and ask if anyone can see what Neal had for lunch by looking into my mouth. WOW! I hate that you felt you had to go to that level. I come from a family that after the great depression got themselves out of poverty with hard work, making the right choices, and sacrifices and now we are pretty prosperous. I will not lower myself to your level of discourse except to say that you are a ca-ca, poo-poo head (IMHO).
    By Scott @ 10/26/09 02:56:39 PMreport abuse
  • Construction Workers
    Neal I normally agree with you 100%, although in this case it is only 80%. I think the mistake lies in the fact that you cut the caller off without asking for more information. Now chances are that he was full of it about his past income, or else he would not be in his situation. But by your reasoning, NO ONE should have children until they have a quarter million in the bank, per child. And this isnt just construction workers, after all, as smart as you are, the day our wonderful government re-enacts the Fairness Doctrine, you and many others will be out of a job. I would hope you have enough that you could survive (or buy a private island), but what about your staff? My point is that no person, educated or not, regardless of career choice, has guaranteed income. If Congress has the authority to regulate it (and until they are voted out, unfortunately they do), there is a huge potential they will ruin it. So no job is safe - unless you work for the IRS. I can not argue that the lack of a formal education lowers your odds of making a living, but I would have loved for you to have asked him a few questions before ripping him a new one.
    By the way, I have a degree, chose to work in construction and have made a nice career of it. How much I make is none of anyones business, but I will say I can afford the children I have.
    By Josh S @ 10/26/09 02:44:57 PMreport abuse
  • Stuff Happens
    It's kind of hard to get a job when no one is hiring. Just saying.

    I am certified in Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, InDesign, the entire Microsoft Office Suite, have experience working for SIUs, law firms, proofreading companies (textbooks), hospitality, secreterial/reception work, and have been published twice. I have an outstanding performance record.

    I've been out of a job since May 2008.

    I've been applying everywhere possible, with the exclusion of minimum wage jobs, and have come up short. I've only had one interview. Thank God my boyfriend works and that his business is doing well, otherwise we'd be in a similar situation.

    I know a lot of people sit around on welfare because they don't want to work. But a lot of people want to work too. There just aren't any jobs, thanks to the Feds.
    By Konstantine @ 10/26/09 02:34:51 PMreport abuse
  • WTF
    WOW! Sounds like old neal is a real tough guy. I did'nt hear the show that day, because I stopped listening years ago. I do enjoy reading Nealz Nuze. So neal did a beat down on a unemployed constuction worker, did you boast about it with all your metro buddys at the country club? On my travels I exit the inter-state, and at one location their is always a homeless person with card-board sign in hand. I can always be the first at the light of the two lanes since all of the good people move to the lane furthest from him. I tell the guy soon he will have a lot more competition, so he should start carrying a windex bottle filled with dirty water and a greasy rag and look for the guys driving the foreign made autos. Those cheap S O B 's may fork over a buck just so you don't clean the window. I am from a large family we always did alot more laughing then crying. Those were the days before LBJ.
    By Blue-Eyed Devil @ 10/26/09 02:30:14 PMreport abuse
  • Joyce...
    But Joyce, if the only reason you are employed is from laying on your back and keeping in stock of lipstick and the treadmill at the gym, does that still count? Even though you can't do your job???
    By Joyc'e #1 fan @ 10/26/09 02:30:08 PMreport abuse
  • Statists and thier emotions
    When you encounter a Republican or Democrat, even the supposedly moderate types, they still advocate the state and it's power to take the bread someone has earned to give it to someone else. The programs the state starts to help out unemployed people are morally correct to the untrained mind because the untrained mind only looks at the surface of an issue before deciding its morality. Once you know what liberty is, what the purpose of government is in the American tradition of limited government (oxymoron?) then you will find that welfare when forcibly taken and distributed by the government is morally wrong and leads to other hazards.
    By Ross W @ 10/26/09 02:28:30 PMreport abuse
  • Two minds.
    We Get it
    A struggling middle class worker did EVERYTHING wrong by his/her own doing but a CEO screwing up their company needing tax dollars to survive should have all the sympathy from the Talk Master when his salary is cut.
    By Samael @ 10/26/09 09:35:16 AMreport abuse
    I seem to remember the talkmaster being against all the bailouts.
    I didn’t hear Neal rip this guy, but from the reading I’m still not sure what my response is beyond the fact that Neal is definitely right about this guy having way to many kids. When I graduated HS I went straight into the Army, ended up getting kicked out with my left knee torn up and had to be on assistance for a while until I almost finished college. I think it would be a little hypocritical of me to bitch about the assistance when I was forced to use it when the VA took 3 years to approve my claim. On the other hand the system can be abused and that really stinks!
    By Tim - Ohio Libertarian @ 10/26/09 02:28:09 PMreport abuse
  • Meat sacks
    At some point it's just meat sacks popping out democratic voters.

    This nation was built by people who never expected a handout living in a world that couldn't even imagine it.

    This nation will be detroyed by the masses demanding handouts, the festering cancer that they are. The revenge for their pathetic excuses for lives will the downfall of everyone.

    How long did Rome last after the mobs turned to circuses and bread handouts to occupy their lives?

    Big man can squirt four kids out? Big man can support them with hard work. It sounds like a construction industry job amounts to nothing more than flipping burgers with a hardhat on. Don't expect to raise a family on it. (Hey, if they can find enough folks willing to work so hard for so cheap, more power to them. This isn't China, they aren't slaves.)

    Between his kids or my discretionary spending, I'll choose my spending anyday.
    By John @ 10/26/09 02:27:43 PMreport abuse
  • @Matt
    Hey, if you want to help this guy, then that's terrific: Send him a check or have him for dinner or whatever.

    But forcing ME to help at the point of a gun (govt. force) is not charity. That is stealing and all your moral grandstanding won't change that. It is just as wrong as if you went and robbed a bank so you could send this guy some money.
    By Twistedsaint @ 10/26/09 02:24:35 PMreport abuse
  • welfare as a tax benefit
    I've recently come to regard some forms of welfare as something of a benefit to everyone. Just as my taxes go to pay for roads, police officers, and firefighters that everyone (taxpayer or not) benefits from, my taxes also go to keep this gentleman's family (and thousands of others everywhere) fed so that he doesn't act on his own to secure what he needs by possibly stealing from me and possibly hurting my family in the process. Somewhat akin to paying the mobster for "protection". In this way, I can more easily stomach the idea of the government stealing from me to prop up the bad decisions (or sometimes truly just bad luck) of others.
    By kdavismd @ 10/26/09 02:22:21 PMreport abuse
  • Well.....
    I think most Boortz listners would agree that folks should try to stay off food stamps.
    However, the worker did not create the system, he is simply playing his part. He used to pay $30k a year in income tax, and now he is the beneficiary of his own taxes. Big deal, if you don't like it, don't scream at the guy feeding 4 kids, instead go change the system!
    For example, if you get laid off, wouldn't anyone go file for their unemployment benefits? Of course no one would refuse due to 'welfare stigma'! We pay into the system, and when we need it, we take from it.

    We're in a big recession right now, 10% unemployment...so no matter how educated or how many job skills you have, the jobs are just not there for alot of people. This is what food stamps are for...pay your taxes and when you need help, your kids don't starve on the street.

    Neil's problem is with the broodmares...and that is understandable.

    But Neal's analogy of the worker conspiring with the government to rob another person is unfair.

    Neal, this is actual what happened. The worker AND the alleged robbed man BOTH elected representatives who acted on THEIR behalf to setup this system. The govt is simply carrying out BOTH person's wishes.

    A long time ago they put time limits to get these benefits, and now it's just fine with me. In fact, with over 10% unemployment out there, they should go ahead and extend the time for these folks.
    People simply don't make careers of collecting stamps like they used to.
    By JBB @ 10/26/09 02:15:04 PMreport abuse
  • unemployment
    You are right about the construction worker. I heard this comment on your show Friday and thought you were right on. Since when has it become my responsibility to take care of people who 'download' all of the kids and then don't financially plan for trouble in case it pops us. When the economy was booming, why wasn't that construction worker putting money in the bank for just such an emergency? Because he is irresponsible and negligent in taking care of his family, now I have to do it.
    By WendyinOK @ 10/26/09 02:08:45 PMreport abuse
  • Hit the nail on the head
    Been think this for years. Just didn't know how to put it so they would understand. I am going to send a link to my wifes coussins on welfare. They all have new cars, new big screen TVS, shop in all the high fasion stores in the mall and yet they never worked a day in their life. Each have four or five children with many diffrent men. Theifs is what they are and should be in jail!
    By Dredge @ 10/26/09 02:08:34 PMreport abuse
  • Hits home
    I feel like Neal is throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one. It's one thing to blast the guy for being bad with his money. If I had $100,000 like he said he did, I would like to think I would have saved more wisely. But I think Neal implied that no one should go into construction- and then where would we be? Diversify one's income? Yes. Save 6-12 months of income? Yes. Avoid going into a profession one potentially loves just because it isn't "safe"? No.
    By rune1im @ 10/26/09 02:03:45 PMreport abuse
  • Agree 100% w/Neal!!
    Neal, as always, you are RIGHT ON with this painful truth!!!! We HAVE to STOP coddling people and making excuses for bad choices and poor behaviour in our culture.
    By Redheaded Texan @ 10/26/09 02:02:26 PMreport abuse
  • reliberalhater
    You said "Snarkybird
    Snarky, you are a pathetic waste of skin. Stop whining like a typical liberal crybaby and man up for a change. When you start taking responsibility for your own actions, then you may have a leg to stand on when your peeing in your pants over every little bump in the road you cross. Go change your diaper and shut the hell up."

    OK, I'd be happy to respond to this drivel if I had even the inkling of a clue what you were referring to. Care to share?
    By snarkybird @ 10/26/09 01:42:05 PMreport abuse
  • Re: snarkybird It was You originally said “I agree with you neal - we should end all these programs. “
    You came up with the false premise, I simply Refuted it.
    By ACE @ 10/26/09 01:41:59 PMreport abuse
  • WOW!
    Neal- Even though this is you, I can't believe you would say something like that. That really is jerky, and I think inside you know it is too. Why else would you pick the most inarticulate letters to put up against your own 1 page diatribe? Not everyone in this world can be as blessed, talented, and fortunate as you have been. How do you know that this guy wasn't forced into construction to support a dying relative or otherwise?

    This is one guy who probably worked his ever-loving rear-end off in a construction job only to fall on hard times. This isn't a welfare breeder, it is a guy who lost his job and now needs a little help. My goodness, THIS IS THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WE NEED TO HELP!!!

    Are we so Libertarian and so Godless in this country anymore that we lack any compassion at all for our fellow man? Sure, this guy can use charities too. I hope he is using them, but I know personally that many charities are absolutely tapped out.

    Chastising the guy for having 4 kids is ludicrous anyway. People years ago who immigrated to the US had several large broods and worked their fingers to the bone for everything they had. I come from one of those types of families. Lord knows we also need more good, strong Christian families to face the Muslim scourge. Were simply being outbred.

    Let's do what we can to help this guy. If he is your neighbor, make him dinner, send gently used clothing to his house, and lend him a hand. Peace to all.
    By Matt @ 10/26/09 01:30:03 PMreport abuse
  • Joyce..Joyce..Joyce
    My point is that Neal always likes to beat the drum about "I got here because of the decisions I made" which I agree with. However, life throws curve balls and sometimes the pitch gets hit/homerun with the bases loaded --- and sometimes the runner gets hit right in the, well, "nether regions". Neal just happened to be up to the plate, in the right batting order, for that grand slam. Well, congrats to him. I would just hope that he quits pointing at the other guy that got nailed in his privates and preaching "oh, you didn't make the right decisions" as he flaunts his world series championship ring.
    By NealsClimb @ 10/26/09 01:28:57 PMreport abuse
  • Lysander Spooner
    Yeah Lysander,
    That is an excellent point you make. You notice how Neal won't even touch the subject of HR1207 and ending the Fed?? He needs to get his head out of the @ss of Herman Cain (Mr. ILoveTheFed) and start seeing things for what they are.
    By LiberalHater @ 10/26/09 01:24:10 PMreport abuse
  • Snarkybird
    Snarky, you are a pathetic waste of skin. Stop whining like a typical liberal crybaby and man up for a change. When you start taking responsibility for your own actions, then you may have a leg to stand on when your peeing in your pants over every little bump in the road you cross. Go change your diaper and shut the hell up.
    By LiberalHater @ 10/26/09 01:19:30 PMreport abuse
  • Hey Neals Climb
    and did Neal ever plan for a suicide?
    Herb Elfman's suicide was a turning point in Neal's career... Did he "plan" on Herb's death? I don't even think the corpse was cold before Neal showed up at the front door requesting Herb's spot. Had it not been for Herb's death, Neal would most likely not even be in his current gig. Hope for the best, plan for the worst, and don't let a good crisis go to waste....right Neal?
    By NealsClimb

    Neal and Herb were friends, I imagine Herb would have liked the idea. Are you trying to diminish Neal's initiative? If this hadn't happened, I'm sure Neal would have gone on to practice law so what's your point again?

    I bet I could find a similar post on the website of every talk show host in the country. Conservative that is...
    By Joyce M/Blythe @ 10/26/09 01:16:21 PMreport abuse
  • Bank bailouts
    The point of the bank bailout comparisons is to point out how misdirected our anger is. The construction worker and those like him amount to a pittance when compared to the true welfare queens on Wall Street. Again we spend less on food stamps than we spent on AIG. So much focus and energy on one man who is supposedly gaming the system for a few hundred bucks, while the hundreds of billions being tossed around elsewhere are yesterday's news. Neal NEVER really gave a darn about that, but you can count on a daily dose about some poor sap like this.
    By Destin @ 10/26/09 01:16:17 PMreport abuse
  • reACE
    You said 'Re: snarkybird He either said that or he didn't.
    No amount of BS is going to change that Fact."

    dude - that's just lame. You're better than that.
    By snarkybird @ 10/26/09 01:10:06 PMreport abuse
  • @ whoisthetrizzle
    Have you not been paying attention the last two years? Whether or not they have the "right" to extract tax money from the populace to do with as they please, they CAN and HAVE done EXACTLY THAT with their lobbying efforts and big money campaign contributions, not to mention the revolving door between Wall Street and DC evidenced by where these elected officials and so-called regulators get their paycheck after leaving public "service" (for lack of a better word). I am a degreed & licensed professional engineer, yet find myself unemployed currently and when i'm not jobhunting i'm studying the financial markets with the goal of preserving the wealth i have. And let me tell you, the level of corruption that binds Wall Street to K Street, from the Fed to the capital building, will make your head spin. The financial oligarchs are pulling the strings, all of them. Another poster recommended checking out zerohedge finance blog and Max Keiser and I wholeheartedly agree. I would also throw seekingalpha in there when it comes to getting an alternate take when it comes to exactly what the big monied interests are up to (no good, I can tell you that).
    By Destin @ 10/26/09 01:06:24 PMreport abuse
  • @ whoisthetrizzle?
    I'm not sure what we are disagreeing on. If we go backwards in time, just about every person here is/was against the TARP funding. And many folks here stated that the companies should have failed. Bad decisions = BK. We all agreed with that.

    BUT now, TARP did happen to our dismay. The banks basically threw themselves at the feet of government.

    So Neal and many others here are upset that the same CEO's we all said should fail due to their bad decision making, are now whining that there's some sort of "brain drain" that's going to happen if the government cuts their pay. If this argument structure isn't hypocritical, then it's definitely giving CEO's a pass for entitlement while crucifying some guy that fell on bad times whom had the misfortune to call in.

    In other words, if these folks here are going to stand up for a CEO's rights to an entitled salary the free market can't bear while begging for a bailout when said CEO clearly didn't perform to begin with... none of these same folks have the moral or intellectual authority to pass judgment on this other man just because he was honest about his situation. That's what burns me up about this whole thread. You could change my mind about this gentleman if you can show that he was building sub standard homes causing him to lose his job. Much like these CEO's bundling sub standard mortgages into bonds calling them A+ rated.
    By Samael @ 10/26/09 01:00:25 PMreport abuse
  • Breeders
    Who knows if this construction type was telling the truth or not, that's not the point, I have no problem if a family has to use the system for a short while, but I do have a problem with welfare breeders dropin' out kids faster than the Iranian scumbags are breedin' uranium.
    By booger @ 10/26/09 12:56:38 PMreport abuse
  • Re: snarkybird He either said that or he didn't.
    No amount of BS is going to change that Fact.
    By ACE @ 10/26/09 12:54:56 PMreport abuse
  • Construction worker facts are fishy
    Neal,I am usually with you buddy,but you are off on this one.
    You investigated the earnings of construction workers online.That is a flaw.You sit at your desk in comfort and try to find out the facts online.That is so quaint.
    In reality,a construction worker can and does make upwards of 50 to 75 thousand a year when times are good due to other factors that you will not find "online".When this man decided to have a family,I would bet that he was doing quite well financially and saw no problems on the horizon.S--t happens!
    Try to put yourself in another persons shoes.We all don't have the same blessings in life.Whether you are insightful enough to admit it or not,you have had certain "breaks" that led you your success.Those "breaks" put you over the top on the income ladder.Thank God for them,but don't try to denigrate someone who has not been so blessed.
    Our own success depends 90% on us.The other 10% is beyond our control.It effects us all in different ways.
    By mailman @ 10/26/09 12:50:19 PMreport abuse
  • "Contruction Worker"
    1) The caller never said he was a construction worker, he just said he was in construction. That could be anything from an unskilled laborer, contractor, or supplier. There is not enough data to even assume an average salary.

    2) Did the caller not say "I paid $30,000 in taxes after all my deductions.."? I'm pretty sure that is what he said at the start of the call. If that's true, then this guy was not making 'average construction worker' wages. And I would assume that he would have been making an income more than sufficient for a family of six.

    I only heard the call once, so I may be wrong.
    By Frank @ 10/26/09 12:49:44 PMreport abuse
  • @Frank Sanders
    Frank, where to begin......

    First, if you don't like what you are getting from you bank...you can stop giving them money. You have that freedom. But if I don't like what the government is doing with my money, I have to keep giving it to them.

    Next, as I said before: We don't agree with the bank bailouts either, so stop comparing it.

    Lastly: You don't know the first thing about intellectual capital. The top 10 highest paying jobs dissapearing would be a catastrophe-- Eliminating them would ALSO eliminate the top 10 lowest paying jobs and more.

    Your "contribution to society" idea is backwards, progressive thinking, uttered by someone who has no clue about the value of intellectual capital.
    By Twistedsaint @ 10/26/09 12:40:23 PMreport abuse
  • ""government assistance that is meant for her"
    uhhhh...well, this "government assistance" didn't cover everything. Not sure what your point is, but isn't this whole discussion based on "government assistance"? So, it's ok for a dying lady to use "the government assistance that is meant for her" but not ok for me to leverage for a couple months via food stamps so I can get back on my feet? Once again, if your old - then it's ok (medicaid, etc), but if you are young, well then you are just an incapable, stupid, mooch?
    By NoSocialSecurityForMe @ 10/26/09 12:38:49 PMreport abuse
  • 4 Kids and No Job
    Since he isn't working, is the Mrs. out there doing anything to bring home the bacon? Kids are in school, dad's at home (so he can clean and cook)...no excuses for mommy.
    By Kitty @ 10/26/09 12:34:13 PMreport abuse
  • If you don't mind...
    Hey for all of you people posting saying "I don't mind helping him..."

    That's fantastic. Then send him your checks. Great. But keep your self-righteous hands out of my wallet.

    Yeah, it's easy not to mind helping when you're using someone else's money...but when it's time to write your own check everything changes.

    Or, more succinctly: It's easy to be generous with someone else's money.

    Charity is fine. Government force is not charity-- it is legalized robbery.

    Oh and to all you guys comparing bank bailouts to welfare.... stop and LISTEN. Neither Boortz, or anyone else on this board agreeing with him agree with the bank bailouts either!!!
    By Twistedsaint @ 10/26/09 12:33:41 PMreport abuse
  • and did Neal ever plan for a suicide?
    Herb Elfman's suicide was a turning point in Neal's career... Did he "plan" on Herb's death? I don't even think the corpse was cold before Neal showed up at the front door requesting Herb's spot. Had it not been for Herb's death, Neal would most likely not even be in his current gig. Hope for the best, plan for the worst, and don't let a good crisis go to waste....right Neal?
    By NealsClimb @ 10/26/09 12:32:30 PMreport abuse
  • Not Yours to Give
    At one point it was understood that the government is not a charity.
    "Not Yours To Give" by Colonel David Crockett

    http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/Not%20Yours%20to%20Give.pdf
    By MeFein @ 10/26/09 12:19:29 PMreport abuse
  • @ NoSocialSecurityForMe
    I don't pretend to know your entire situation, but why on earth would you spend $60,000 per year of your own money for several years to take care of your Mother-in-law. If she did not have the money to cover it, then she should have been on Medicaid. Run out her assets, then use the government assistance that is meant for her. Don't ruin your families future because of something like this! If there are other things that are needed, then there are other ways to get them. Go to her church and ask for help, local charities that help, Pharmaceutical companies donate billions worth of drugs, you have to go and ask for it though.

    The point is, you effectively took on your mother-in-law as a dependant and lost all of your money because of it. Is that really what she would have wanted? Or would she have wanted a better life for her grandchild?
    By jsday @ 10/26/09 12:18:27 PMreport abuse
  • reACE
    Ace, he either said these programs should end or he said that stealing is something that should continue.

    You cant have it both ways.

    If it's stealing, uh...I'm gonna assume you want it to end - period. He didn't qualify it.

    So, either I'm right and Neal wants the theft to end by ending these programs or you're right and he thinks a little stealing, under the right circumstances, is OK.
    By snarkybird @ 10/26/09 12:15:29 PMreport abuse
  • And further more...
    All those people that think that the profit margin of companies is too much, especially insurance companies...

    Keep a few things in mind.
    Without them making that kind of cash there would be a lot of people out of work.

    If you collect a paycheck from anyone you provide a service. That service is paid, to you, for your work. It is taxed in general less than 21% State and federal combined for less than 50K a year. With MUCH of it going back for people who are married and have kids. But lets keep that 21% to show you the hypocrisy here.

    21% - 100% (or the total of your income) = 79%.

    You make a 79% profit on the money you work for.

    Since... 4.5% to 6% whatever lame number the media has come up with and the sheeple believe is too much... perhaps... you the individual should also only be able to profit 4.5% to 6% on the total money you earn.

    on 50k... that would be.. 3,000.00 at 6%. I was feeling generous. Don't you love my benevolence?
    By RonE @ 10/26/09 12:15:18 PMreport abuse
  • Construction Jobs
    Construction jobs are good ones...for what they are. I worked as a Carpenter/Framer for 4 years. I put myself through 4 years of college with that job. Know what I did when I graduated?

    I QUIT AND GOT A BETTER JOB.
    By Jeffrey @ 10/26/09 12:08:43 PMreport abuse
  • What Neal FAILED to touch on is this...
    That BS line about paying into the fund...Not true...

    If he paid federal taxes at that level of income he qualified for the EIC (Earned Income Credit) below $41,646.

    Which means 19 out of 20 chances he didn't pay income taxes to the feds, got more than he paid in back, and is not and had not "contributed to the fund."

    Most people have no idea how little they really pay in. Most people think companies do not pay their "fair share." I am here to tell you, private contractors, small businesses, and small to moderate businesses pay MORE than their fair share.

    right along with the government robbing the dead via the death tax, money that was already taxed, etc.

    It is a load of manure what people actually pay in versus what they think they pay in. Hell most people with kids don't even pay enough taxes to send ONE of their curtain climbers to public school let alone FOUR.

    You hit this on the head Neal. Keep on preaching the pain because it cannot hurt enough because if it did people would not allow the federal government to print money to wipe rear ends let alone control a federal deficit to cover cradle to grave care for people.
    By RonE @ 10/26/09 12:08:23 PMreport abuse
  • construction worker with 4 kids
    I'm sorry but I have to agree with Neal. One or even two kids I can understand. But four!. It's very irresponsible to have that many kids without having the ability to financially support them.
    By Larry patty @ 10/26/09 12:06:44 PMreport abuse
  • Idiocracy
    If the comments on this page are any indication, the price of success in this society is to not have children. Almost all of the people commenting to brag about their great financial situation seem to be also bragging about the fac tthat they decided not to have kids or to have only children.

    I find myself wondering what this country will be like in a couple of generations....all the successful people and families dying out, to be replaced by welfare families or overgrown illegal immigrant families......do you all suppose that there will be LESS people on public assistance under those circumstances?
    If poor and middle class people daring to have children are just contributing to the problem, than so are successful and prosperous people who decide not to have children or to have only children.
    Successful parents will teach their children the habits they need to be successful adults. Poor people will teach their kids the habits they need in order to be poor adults. Right now most of our nations children are learning how to be poor, and childless successful people are a big part of the reason why.
    By varelse @ 10/26/09 12:06:00 PMreport abuse
  • I agree with Neal in part
    I am a responsible person. My wife and I waited to have kids until we could afford them. We have one son now and are considering more. We make good money and have no debt aside from our house. We have a emergency savings and know where we could cut our budget to save money if neither of us could work.

    What if after all of that we bother lose our jobs? What if I need to get on foodstamps to feed my kids? I would probably go to family first, but there is always the possibility.

    Neal shouldn't judge someone without knowing his entire situation. If these people live within their means, they can have a pretty good life on a construction workers salary. If he has a big screen TV, iPhone and wastes money on cable and other things, then I understand getting on his case, but if he is truly scraping the bottom of the barrel, then we as a society should do what we can to help him feed his family. Are foodstamps the right way? I would prefer private donation, but frankly our tax system is not set up to promote such a thing.
    By jsday @ 10/26/09 11:57:58 AMreport abuse
  • @ Destin and Samael
    Clearly neither of you pays too very much attention to what is said here. I'm sure there are a couple of posts here made by people who support the Wall Street bailouts, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. From what I've seen the general consensus is that the government has no place whatsoever in the marketplace. I for one am just as, if not more, outraged at the federal government's meddling with the free market.

    Destin, I thoroughly enjoy your usage of the phrase, "fraud and plunder perpetrated by Wall Street," as if they have they have the ability to confiscate our tax dollars and spend them at will. Industry has the authority to neither collect taxes nor pass legislation regarding the collection of those taxes. These powers are reserved to our legislative branch, and the legislative branch should be held responsible for its actions.
    By whoisthetrizzle? @ 10/26/09 11:52:47 AMreport abuse
  • If Boortz...
    wants his ratings to skyrocket he should start paying attention to www.infowars.com. That is where you will get uncensored information that matters.
    By Ivan @ 10/26/09 11:52:38 AMreport abuse
  • It's obvious why Neil went into law and not engineering
    Because he clearly cannot handle statistics or statistical analysis.

    If the "Average" construction worker earns $29,000 a year that means that some of them earn $15,000 a year and others earn $45,000 a year. Some might even make it as high as $60,000 a year.

    Additionally these averages already take into account the seasonal nature of Construction work meaning that since most Construction workers are between jobs because of inclement weather between November and March on average they earn this salary in just 7 months and can easily supplement their salary with other part time seasonal work in the winter for a much higher income level which would not be captured in the career builder statistics.

    In other words, while the "average" construction worker in Atlanta may earn ~$26,000 a year AS A CONSTUCTION WORKER, most of them take home well north of $32,000 a year and some could easily be bringing over $50,000 a year either because their experience and skills allow them to command more money than average or because they supplement their income with side jobs or both.

    Another flaw in Neils analysis is that he assumes that this guys wages will only increase in step with inflation (as the cost of raising a child does), however we all know this is rarely the case. For 95+% of us our incomes increase steadily relative to inflation from the time our careers start in our late teens/early 20's until they peak in our early to mid 40's. It also assumes that he will always be a Construction worker and will never move into related better paying fields (for example working as a facilities manager for a corporation) or work into management.

    Now is this construction worker one the ones who busts his butt, earns a higher than average salary, works a second job in the winter, and somewhere in the middle of his career move into a better paying position? Who knows, but it is clearly not the simple open and shut case that he cannot afford 4 kids that Neil tries to make it out as.
    By Rasilio @ 10/26/09 11:50:21 AMreport abuse
  • Patricia...
    Patricia..

    I will have to say that we do help others.

    My husband paid for one of our neighbors to have his tooth extracted.. drove him to the appointment he made for the guy.

    We regularly give food that we have left over from events to the homeless.

    We will also give food to our neighbors and have given clothing and free rides to dr's appts too.

    I wouldn't call these people "unfortunate".. many of them are on disability/welfare (who can tell the difference these days).. all the men have children (by diff baby mamas) they can't afford to support. I in no way am condoning the way of life these people lead.. but we do what we can to help (in addition to the dollars looted from our salaries).

    So... yep.. I see Neal's point entirely.. this guy had kids he can't afford.. Unfortunately, our schools don't do much in the way of preparing our kids for the real world..
    By qhgirl @ 10/26/09 11:49:51 AMreport abuse
  • Scott's take on Bill
    I cannot prove Neal gets free meals when he goes out to eat. Can you prove he does not? Your argument is childish but is worthy of talk-radio logic. Neal has worked hard for everything he has, harder than most people. I do not begrudge him his airplane or his free meals (if he gets them) and I am well aware of his work for charity. No I do not know what he gives to charity. I know what I give to charity. When is the last time your tax prep software red-flagged your charitable contributions warning you such an amount could trigger an audit? Don’t paint me with your broad-brush. I’m might be making some assumptions but they are for Neal to judge, not you. Did he ask you to defend him? Does he eat free and give that amount to the waiter? If not…snob (IMHO). Has his tax-prep software flagged his contributions as something that could be audited…if not, snob (IMHO). If he gets a break on a job around his house from a vendor, does he tip the worker that amount? If not, snob (IMHO). I do not think Hannity and Limbaugh are heartless snobs either but I do wonder about Neal. Whining about children in restaurants, gripping about rift-raff on the airlines…these are indicators of a snob (IMHO). If Neal thinks I have misjudged him, then he’s not a snob but that’s between him and his conscience. As for you, my first thought is that you fall in the kiss-up group (IMHO). Congratulations…if I look in your mouth, can I see what Neal had for lunch today?
    By Bill @ 10/26/09 11:49:25 AMreport abuse
  • False Premise
    Neal's premise that a college education would prevent unemployment is ridiculous. There are now thousands of educated engineers, software developers, and others that are out of work. When they were employed, with every reason to believe they would continue to be employed, they had children they COULD afford (at the time).

    There are no guarantees in this life and we need to make the best of what comes our way.

    It's not that Neal was insensitive (which he was), it's that his logic is severely flawed.

    If people only had children they could afford at the time (with money banked for their first 18 years), our birth rate would be a fraction of what it is now.

    Hey - Neal can't be right ALL the time.
    By Tadpole in KS @ 10/26/09 11:49:16 AMreport abuse
  • Low birth rates
    I am really tired of hearing how low birth rates among indigenous peoples is responsible for all world problems. I assume the indigenous people we are referring to are white since they seem to be the only ones (well some of them at least) that realize the kids have to be paid for. The ones who are causing most of the problems are the ones popping out a kid every nine months who expect them to be paid for from conception on (plenty of whites in that catagory too). Need to do something about that problem not get in a breeding war with them.
    By Betty @ 10/26/09 11:49:12 AMreport abuse
  • Well Done Welfare
    Man, if so many people are peeing their dungarees over ONE construction worker getting 600 a month in food, I can't WAIT to see how much fun we're gonna have when we all start paying each others' doctor bills. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
    By Randy @ 10/26/09 11:40:27 AMreport abuse
  • To the "He should have planned" crowd...
    This year, I was out of a job from Jan 5 to Aug 29. I did everything right, used every bit of my savings and still almost lost it all. I have two degrees and applied for over 125 jobs, but no one was hiring. Things broke loose at the end of July, as I started getting interview after interview. I was working by the end of August. When I look at this, I know that I have excellent skills. I know that I saved and had my ducks in a row. With all that, I know that I was within one month of missing my first house payment EVER, and within several months of losing everything. The thing was: THERE WERE NO JOBS. It does not matter what your area of expertise is if nobody is hiring! I was applying and interviewing anywhere in the country that I could get an interview. For 6 months, employers had stopped hiring and THERE WERE NO JOBS.

    You can't plan for everything. Like that 500 year flood in Austell GA, sometimes an economic catastrophe comes down and lays your best laid plans to waste. I did everything right and by the book and still almost lost it all.

    Another example: all of these construction workers who got slammed by this recession are also slammed by the Lake Lanier/Allatoona water ruling. Even if they had planned for a 6 month recession, they could not possibly have planned for a Federal ruling that is going to take away the water needed for living and economic expansion of the Atlanta area. Those jobs were killed by the economy, but buried by that water ruling. Construction will NEVER come back to Atlanta like the last 30 years, and construction workers could not have forseen it.
    By rdh @ 10/26/09 11:38:45 AMreport abuse
  • Lysander Spooner
    he don't wanna talk about Ron Paul because Ron Paul is a true libertarian. if he talked with him, people might guess that neal isn't the libertarian he claims to be.

    are you an anarchist?
    By tshirt-doctor.com @ 10/26/09 11:38:32 AMreport abuse
  • military adventurism...
    True we pay for the military through our taxes, and that's in the constitution. But is it really necessary to pay for military adventurism and America trying to police the planet to the tune of bankruptcy? And saying that 3rd world nations with no standing armies are a threat to America while the same guys saying there's a threat leave the border wide open? Just sounds like nonsense to me, in order to distract and confuse the American taxpayer.
    By Red Leader @ 10/26/09 11:37:22 AMreport abuse
  • used ta be........................
    not so long ago a construction worker made some good money......

    so he bought stuff and boinked his ol' lady and knocked 'er up........he could afford it........

    hell he was union right.....he might have voted for osamabama.......or at least he was told to........

    now things have taken a dump in his lunch box........nobuddy buildin' anything 'cept stock piles of guns and ammo.......

    sorry pal join the crowd of the great unwashed or should I say unemployed.....

    and makin' $100k a year????? hmmmmmmm aaaaaah ummmmm well that would require one hell of a lot of OT.......

    did he save??? did he invest??? huh.....whaaa.....no?

    so here is my point.....finally.....not every dumdass should go to college....start doin' odd jobs.....get into politics you will eat free for life and your kids will become lobbists.....life is tuff all over....
    By butt neckid @ 10/26/09 11:35:36 AMreport abuse
  • re: VTHS's comments
    well, if you read my post, you would have seen that I HAVE NOT YET applied for any food stamps/dole/etc. yet. I've spent the last 4 years spending over $60,000 dollars of my life savings to assist my wife and her dying mother who past away a couple weeks ago.
    Thank you very much for labeling me "A drain on society". Want to pony up any of the money I've invested in her health care? I'll be more than happy to accept any donations you care to make? I'm sure you would, you sound like a fine, caring individual.
    By NoSocialSecurityForMe @ 10/26/09 11:22:04 AMreport abuse
  • Missing the points
    1 - don't have kids you can't afford and plan for emergencies.

    2 - if you do get caught unawares and unprepared don't be stupid enough to complain to employed taxpayers.
    By Joyce M/Blythe @ 10/26/09 11:18:42 AMreport abuse
  • Hugo
    Hugo, what is that saying that everyone knows? Oh yeah, "lack of planning on your part does not constitute any emergency on my part". Get real, man. How are people supposed to learn if they always have something given to them? And since you think Neal does not care about us, what then determines when a person DOES care?
    By Mark @ 10/26/09 11:16:42 AMreport abuse
  • Neal and many others here do support Welfare
    For example, if you are a CEO of a failed company needing tax dollars to survive, you should get to keep your entitlement of a salary the free market can't pay.

    BUT

    If you are an employee of said company needing tax dollars to survive, get laid off without a severance, don't have 100's of thousands in savings to cover medical, job loss, or your kids' needs you are entitled to NOTHING.

    It makes perfect sense.
    By Samael @ 10/26/09 11:11:22 AMreport abuse
  • pay for the US military?
    The military is one of the FEW things spelled out in the Constitution that we the people are to pay for
    By booger @ 10/26/09 11:10:41 AMreport abuse
  • By Dean @ 10/26/09 10:43:54 AM
    "Don't you want to use the police power of government to steal to pay for the US military?"

    You really showed your ignorance...the Constitution:

    Section. 8.
    Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

    Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
    By Cav Trooper @ 10/26/09 11:09:02 AMreport abuse
  • Do you have the audio on this?
    Cristina 7 Webguy,

    Could any of you please upload the audio on the conversation between Neal & the construction guy and resulting Neal's rants? I want to hear the Talkmaster at his vintage best!! Thanks.
    By Josh @ 10/26/09 11:09:01 AMreport abuse
  • @Patricia...
    As soon as the income tax is abolished I will have more money in my pocket to give away for charity...until that day comes the federal government forces me to have to watch every penny very cautiously....particularly with Obama overprinting money and causing inflation and federal reserve notes being off the gold standard.
    By Red Leader @ 10/26/09 11:08:54 AMreport abuse
  • Ron Paul....
    Curiously Neal, if you are even remotely interested in ending the looting in this country by ending federal programs, then why do you persist on talking about people like Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee? At what point do you begin to talk about someone who is serious about the constitution and ending federal programs...like Dr.Ron Paul...? That way we believe that you are serious about small government?
    By Lysander Spooner @ 10/26/09 11:05:31 AMreport abuse
  • The Real Neal
    See, Boortz myrmidons? This is how your hero really is-he doesn't give a damn about you and yours. He honestly believes none of you, his most ardent listeners, have anything to do with his success. You are nothing to him. And trust me, it doesn't take a college graduate to figure out that if Neal continually insults and belittles his customers (the listeners), his bosses (and yes, he has them) will start to figure out why his ratings are tanking.
    By Hugo's ghost @ 10/26/09 11:01:47 AMreport abuse
  • Okay, here's a question
    How many of you, "mad at Neal" types, have opened your own homes to unemployed strangers? How many of you have paid for a complete stranger's groceries out of your own pocket?

    Okay, okay.. we know you're not doing that but you're perfectly okay with having your neighbors wealth confiscated to support someone who was irresponsible. How are YOU any different from the moochers?
    By Patricia @ 10/26/09 10:59:27 AMreport abuse
  • No work -- you deserve to starve to death
    Well, that is what a true Ayn Rand Libertarian would spout. A true Libertarian's only morals are dollars. They should be exaulting the Mafia since it is the very epitome of Libertarian values. A true Libertarian despises all charities as encouraging poor performance. Those that cannot should die, not at the hands of the state or an organization but by their own action or inaction.

    Neal, you are such a loving warm person, we know for certain that Global Warming can't occur as you keep Atlanta, the U.S. and the world in a near moral deep freeze.
    By Bill @ 10/26/09 10:59:04 AMreport abuse
  • Boortz wants the same kind of looting...
    Just listen to the nonsense Neal talks of on foreign policy. He wants to use the force of govt to apply people's money to something that doesn't truly exist (the war on terror)....if there was a war on terror we would see the Mexican/American border closed and illegals being shipped out. It is not sane to believe there is a war on terror going on, if the border is wide open to islamic fascists to come in and do harm. Particularly since we know the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired passports.
    By Red Leader @ 10/26/09 10:55:41 AMreport abuse
  • Not a laborer
    Neal,
    The guy said he was "in" contstruction. You assumed he was some type of low income laborer. How do you know he wasn't the owner of a home building company? He said he was making over $100,00 for years. No matter how good the economy is, a "construction worker" won't make that much. I would love to hear from him again to see exactly what he does in construction! But the way you talked to him, I doubt he would ever call back.
    By Scott @ 10/26/09 10:55:07 AMreport abuse
  • Re: snarkybird “I agree with you neal - we should end all these programs. “
    Did Neal actually say that?

    [No, he didn't] So much for your logic on the argument, try again.
    By ACE @ 10/26/09 10:54:53 AMreport abuse
  • Construction worker w/4 kids
    So this guy thought he could raise four kids on $20/hour pay? I'll bet ANY of you $20 he is a product of the local government/public school system. Because that is exactly where that kind of stupidity emanates.
    By Big Joe Williams @ 10/26/09 10:47:11 AMreport abuse
  • Neal
    Don't you want to use the police power of government to steal to pay for the US military?

    Isn't that theft of someone else's property? You're no better than the foodstamps guy.
    By Dean @ 10/26/09 10:43:54 AMreport abuse
  • Construction worker w/4 kids
    I guess that's not so bad. After all, there are plenty of welfare broads in this country who sit around and get knocked-up every chance they can get. Another baby means another welfare check! Hooray! These people remind me of "Eddie" on those Vacation movies with Chevy Chase. The dumbest people have the most kids. Just look around you.
    By Big Joe Williams @ 10/26/09 10:43:22 AMreport abuse
  • The Constuction Worker
    Sorry I missed that phone call but I agree with Neal on this. There way to many kids being born to people who can't afford to raise them. I work in healthcare & see alot of this. People who CAN'T AFFORD kids are spitting them out left & right all at the expense of others. They can't even afford most of the basics to get by in life & yet they have 4 or 5 kids. These people are relying on the Goverment to provide housing, food & clothing oh yeah & their Healthcare. If you can't afford to feed a kid why are you going to have them. All this comes down to common sense.
    By Steve l @ 10/26/09 10:40:28 AMreport abuse
  • Agreed!
    Ironically I had the "luxury" of being in line at the grocery store yesterday behind a food stamp participant. She had at least 5 separate checks for various NAME BRAND items (no rice & beans, no store brands). She was about 20 years old, 2 kids under 2 with an illegal alien boyfriend/husband, who I'm sure pays zero taxes. We stood in line behind her for 10 minutes & finally switched lanes. The checkout clerk kept having to leave her register to get approval for the WIC checks. My 16 year old was with me. She got a good lesson of what LOSERville looks like.
    By Lori @ 10/26/09 10:38:49 AMreport abuse
  • Welfare?
    Well, Neal, what do you think of the Duggar family with the 18 kids? Are they deadbeats too?
    From what I understand, desperation does not look good to a potential employer. If food stamps take just enough of the 'edge' off so that someone gets back to work faster, why not?
    Desperate people tend to have little to lose and do more irrational things.
    I know I'd prefer not to get bludgeoned with a hammer over the $5 in my pocket. They would be no where near me if they were at the welfare office applying for the food stamps.
    Saved money for hard times? Listen bad things happen to good people all the time. Medical bills, car accidents, you name it could have drained his savings and there would be NO MONEY left. Construction guys bidness aside...
    I thought Section 8 was to harrass your neighbors when you rent out on section 8. haha!!!
    By Lannie's Way @ 10/26/09 10:38:15 AMreport abuse
  • Misdirected anger
    The AIG bailout alone cost more than what we as a nation spend annually on food stamps. I can only wish that we collectively held half the outrage towards the fraud and plunder perpetrated by Wall Street. When it comes to billions & trillions being looted we (at best) blame the system that made it possible. Yet there is no end to the derision & scorn we'll heap on the little guy trying to make ends meet. Two years ago Neal would probably have a lot more cheerleaders on this issue than he does today. In these tough times I for one have a renewed sense of humility, as many people who made ALL the right choices (myself included) are facing huge challenges.
    By Destin @ 10/26/09 10:37:53 AMreport abuse
  • BAD analogy
    "One more thing ... there's this argument which says "Well, he paid his taxes, so now there's nothing wrong if he goes on food stamps for a while." Oh really? How about a shoplifter saying "Hey, I shopped at this store for years and paid for everything! Now I don't have the money, so it should be OK for me to take a few things I need." Yeah .... Works for me."

    This analogy would only work if the grocery store had a stated policy of overcharging every one of its customers so that when someone needs help they can give them food for free. The people that shop there would know what was happening and would make use of it when necessary. It would be like an insurance policy. The grocery store analogy falls apart because people could choose to shop elsewhere, but they can't choose to not pay taxes for services they don't use.

    That does NOT, however, make the guy wrong for taking advantage of services for which he and his employer paid for many years specifically for this possible situation.

    Your $30K estimate is complete BS. The guy said on your show right before you cut him off that he was making $100K when he had his children. That's not som,e guy banging a hammer on a framing job, that's artisan tile work or something along those lines, which requires high levels of training and expertise.

    DO NOT confuse not having a degree with being uneducated. If he were uneducated, anybody including yourself could just walk onto a job site and do what he does and make the kind of money he was making. That is decidedly NOT the case. The man IS educated, he just didn't get his education from a degree-granting institution.

    The real point here is you made a lot of assumtions from a very short phone call and proceeded to paint this guy as something he may or may not be, but none of us have the information necessary to make that decision because you didn't bother to talk to him, you just jumped on a soapbox and started preaching. Get a little more information the next time you decide to demonize someone.
    By Brian @ 10/26/09 10:36:10 AMreport abuse
  • Store analogy
    You missed out on logic with shopping at a store and then shoplifting when needy. I put merchandise on the shelves of your hyphthetical store. If my job goes to Puerto Rico as scheduled, I'll be getting my merchandise back with interest. If your government wants to borrow my money, I'll feel free to be repaid whenever I choose to go out of work for a few months. TY.
    But, I would prefer that my government get out of the charity business completely. On that we agree 100%.
    By sammy4231 @ 10/26/09 10:35:50 AMreport abuse
  • Bill's take on Neal
    Bill, you think that Neal made a valid point but is a snob because he flies around in an airplane, eats at nice restaurants, and you say probably for free, and get stuff at a discount. Well Neal worked hard for everything he has. He made the right choices. Can you prove he gets his meals for free for PR bumps? If so, is Neal forcing them to do this for an exchange in what is perceived to be publicity? And how often does Neal lend this fame to charity work? Do you know how much he gives to charity? Guys like Neal, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. are blasted because they are thought as heartless snobs, but they have worked for what they have and have made the right choices. Some have worked the blue collar jobs. But they all made efforts to improve their situation and not just be satisfied with where they were.
    By Scott @ 10/26/09 10:32:54 AMreport abuse
  • Don't confuse gov't welfare with private charity
    "We have to have some level of support for those impacted by the economy."

    Sez who? I am making plans to handle impacts to the economy. Its called SAVING UP MONEY. Heard of it? Pretty simple idea. This guy may claim he can't save up. And why would that be? Because of 4 kids! His choice.

    "Drop your ploy for ratings, open your heart, think about it for a few minutes, say a pray in what every way you prefer and understand in some cases kindness is needed."

    Yes, we all need kindness and generosity from time to time. That is why there are private charities. These charities do a much better job of donating to those in need. And many people contribute, including me and my wife. But we get to control where our charitable donations go. I'm not giving charity to someone who wastes things. What about you? Gov't welfare != private charity!

    "And don't give me this junk you were doing him a favor and showing kindness be telling him the truth. Trust me he knows the truth. What he needs now is an apology from you."

    No, what this guy expects is for all of us to bow down and hand him money because he thinks his needs are more important than ours. If someone got in your face and said "give me money!" with a gun in your face, what would be your reaction? That is what he is doing.

    Why don't you go watch Extreme Makeover Home Edition, and see some real charity. People across the nation are ready to help others. But notice how the people they help are actually contributing to their surroundings, and not just popping a cold one every night?
    By Greg @ 10/26/09 10:31:05 AMreport abuse
  • Why not?
    If the gimmies are there why not take them? I don't think they should be there in the first place, but if you can get them GET THEM! We are raped on taxes in the US, so get it back if you can.
    By Steve @ 10/26/09 10:29:50 AMreport abuse
  • I'm kind of glad he has 4 kids
    The population of indigenous Americans is practically zero. On the other hand, immigrants, particularly Muslim, are breeding like rabbits. Western Europe is even worse.
    I'll willingly pay taxes to help this contruction worker feed his kids. But it galls me to pay for the healthcare, food, and education of people that are here illegally or wish for America to be governed under Sharia Law.
    By Carlos @ 10/26/09 10:27:12 AMreport abuse
  • government -vs- charity
    Charity is always preferable to government. Charity involves a personal interaction which benefits both the donor and the donee. Government handouts have short circuited this and, actually make individuals feel "absolved" of the need to help others.
    By mattisben @ 10/26/09 10:27:12 AMreport abuse
  • Interesting subject
    First time to add my comment on the internet.

    Fortunately I did get to hear the conversation on Friday. I work during the day, so I only get to hear an hour or so of the program.

    Neal, you dropped the ball on this one. The guy said he was paying $30,000 in taxes just a couple of years ago, which means he was probably making somewhere between 80,000 and 100,000 dollars. This is typical pay for the construction workers with the amount of overtime they were receiving 3 or 4 years ago. The guy is obviously a hard worker, because he was putting in a great many hours to bring home that type of income as a constuction worker.

    Neal, you should have questioned him on his savings (if you do not have a nest egg to last you 6 months, you need to save more), his spending patterns during the ecomomic boom time (how many plasma TVs), his wife's income, and does he still have frivolous expenditures (cable TV, cell phone, and other nonessential items).

    If the worker had 6 months nest egg and stopped his frivolous spending, I do not mind helping in his time of need. I do believe that for any handout from the government you hsould be required to compensate with labor.
    By CB @ 10/26/09 10:26:10 AMreport abuse
  • Amen, Neal
    100% agreement with you. Wifey and I are both college educated (lawyer and engineer, respectively), no kids, live simply (one 10-year old car, one 20-year old TV, etc), and have always saved like there's no tomorrow rather than accumulate debt.

    Thanks to that, even in these bad times, we are sitting pretty and could go for several years without work. BTW, we are both in our mid-40s.

    It's all about making decisions with a long time horizon in mind. The need for immediate gratification is at the root of many peoples' financial problems.
    By Tom Payne @ 10/26/09 10:25:10 AMreport abuse
  • Good Job
    My wife was one of those angry at you until I removed her from the emotional aspect of this guy's story. That is the problem with bureaucratic thinking; that something has to be done. This guy's predicament may just well be the kick in the pants he needs to propel him to greatness. Again, liberty is the right to succeed or fail.
    By mattisben @ 10/26/09 10:24:48 AMreport abuse
  • College Education
    College education does not equate to earning enough to provide for a family. Just ask Rush Limbaugh or Bill Gates. I wonder if Neal thinks that vocational jobs are just "menial" and beneath someone of his caliber? I wish America would value those vo-tech jobs as much as they do those idiotic liberal arts degrees. Not everyone is capable of getting a college degree and I don't mean by the cost for it. Not everyone has the mental capacity for it. Does that mean we should belittle anyone who cannot get a college degree? Should we just ignore them and treat them as stray animals? Because that's the way Neal makes it sound.

    He's got kids. He's not making enough money to pay for his family. Where's the mother? Why aren't both parents working? Those are the types of questions to ask. Hell, the way Neal degrades government workers I'm surprised he didn't try to get the caller to work for his local government.
    By Libertarian @ 10/26/09 10:22:47 AMreport abuse
  • Really bad logic
    While I agree with your position, your math could use a little work. If the downloads are 3 years apart, that increases the amount of time he has to raise the money. For instance, by the time the 4th is born, he would have already raised the first for 9 years, the 2nd for 6, and the 3rd for 3. That equates to 1 kid already raised for 18 years and completes 1/4 of his obligation. If the first was born in 1990, then the 4th would be born in 1999 and he would have until the end of 2016 to satisfy that obligation.
    By Lee @ 10/26/09 10:22:01 AMreport abuse
  • College
    When I graduated high school in the sixties College actually meant something. You had to take college courses to be eligible and you had to make actual passing grades (not be graded on a curve). You also had to be able to pay for it (no gov handouts for the perpetually stupid to get a college degree they can't even read). If you couldn't afford college you either got a job to pay for it or in the case of Berry College you could work there and pay your tuition. The only thing that was the same then as it is now is that the Football players got a huge scholarship and the most intelligent kids only got a minor one. I used to think college was for learning and not for playing ball till I got introduced to the real world at graduation from High School. You shouldn't knock the guy for not going to college. Why waste several years trying to get a college degree when you probably don't know any more when you come out than when you went in. A college degree is like a Marriage license these days not worth the paper it is written on.
    By Betty @ 10/26/09 10:17:34 AMreport abuse
  • It's a sad situation ...
    No job, no income, family to feed ...

    But it is NOT the job of the government to feed, clothe and house folks who're having hard times. "The Dole" - should remain a function of folks who feel that they have too much GIVING to folks who find that they don't have enough. Under the charitable giving structure, administrative costs are a lot lower.
    By Jubilation T Cornpone @ 10/26/09 10:15:54 AMreport abuse
  • construction workers
    Just fyi regarding his 100k salary. Contractors and sub-contractors absolutely can make over 100k per year.And yes, I think you were too hard on him. AND I'LL NEVER LISTEN AGAIN until after the commercial break. LYLT.
    By TK @ 10/26/09 10:13:42 AMreport abuse
  • Your losing touch with your base audience
    Just like the politicians, your perception of your own self worth is clouding your judgement.

    I started out as a construction worker, and actually did quite well for myself by starting my own business. I was not lucky, I worked long hard hours, scrimped and saved, and made it work. There were times when I thought I would have to go on food stamps even after I started my business, so I can somewhat relate to the caller. I would have had to swallow a lot of pride to go apply for food stamps, but I would have in a second if it meant the difference between my family going hungry or not.

    People do get in financial trouble now and then whether it's their own fault or not. It doesn't mean that we should have no empathy what so ever for them. Our empathy should be balanced with common sense. In my eyes, this is where our politicians are failing by giving too much and this is where you are failing by giving too little.

    If this guy is a welfare brood, he might have deserved it, but if he has supported his family till now, I would say to give the guy a break. I agree completely with Cecilia's email, wholeheartedly.
    By Ed @ 10/26/09 10:08:48 AMreport abuse
  • Birth Control
    I had one kid and took birth control pills for 27 yrs. He kept placing orders and I kept cancelling them. Of course I know everyone can't take birth control pills but there are multiple birth control methods. One of the problems is the tabeloids showing the Hollywood tramp of the day expecting and making it sound as if she had gone where no woman has gone before. There really is no excuse for them as they can easily afford a prescription, pack of condoms, iud or implant. Another is showing people with double digit kids and making it sound as if they should receive the Nobel Piece (I know its supposed to be peace) Prize. The only one who did anything was the woman and she probably thinks popping out kids is a sport as such a big deal is made of it these days for example John and Kate plus 8. If they want a reality show about this sort of thing do one about a welfare broodmare with the babydaddy of the day sucking off her welfare payments (white or black). Of course a lot of men think it makes them look virile (another reason for the babydaddy title).
    By Betty @ 10/26/09 10:07:13 AMreport abuse
  • Not everyone can get a college degree - thank God.
    Every society needs "uneducated" people for society to run. These are the people that farm our land, produce and distribute our food, protect our streets, build our homes, offices, and factories, clean our streets, cook our foods, work in our retail stores, and for the most part, entertain us. If everyone had a college degree, our society couldn't function. Sean Hannity, himself doesn't have a degree but just happened to get lucky and land in a position where he could be discovered and prosper. There are probably many talkers just as good as you guys who never got the break to enter this market.

    Yes the construction worker probably made a mistake, by having more kids that what he can support. But another big problem with American society is wage-disparity. The United States has the highest inequality and poverty in the OECD after Mexico and Turkey, and the gap has increased rapidly since 2000. This is a large part of the problem. CEOs, lawyers, athletes, doctors, film stars earn too much. Teachers, construction workers, fire fighters, farm workers, etc earn too little.

    I've heard the expression that a person's contribution and importance to society is inversely proportional to his/her salary. And for the most part this is true. If the top 10-highest paying jobs, and the people earning them were to disappear, then society would barely notice a change. If the 10-lowest paying jobs, and people working them, were to disappear, society would come to a stand still.

    So you should never berate anyone for the type of work they do. And if government can "steal" trillions of my tax dollars as TARP, to hand to the banks, I see no problem with people wanting some of it back when times are tough, in the form of food stamps. What have the banks given to us, for our TARP dollars? Higher banking fees, or 0.25% interest on our "equity builder" savings accounts?
    By Frank Sanders @ 10/26/09 10:06:05 AMreport abuse
  • Let's follow Newt's advice
    Since you're shilling for your pal Newt, maybe we could implement his idea of a few years ago that if you have kids and find yourself in circumstances where you cannot provide for them, the government should take them away and raise them. (Look it up. He really proposed this.)

    Neal bitches constantly about "government schools." Why not government re-education camps, as long as they're run by Newt's conservatives?
    By Newt's #1 Fan @ 10/26/09 10:05:09 AMreport abuse
  • Don't hate the player, Boortz....
    So in Boortzworld, banks can spend any amount of their bailout money on bonuses and taxpayers are supposed to smile about it but if this one guy is in the food stamp program we're supposed to be outraged? It's not that you are delivering "painful truth" Boortz, it's that you are blind to the hypocrisy of your own position. This isn't everyone "hating" you, this is you being called out for acting the fool.

    Who wants to bet Boortz would NEVER compare this guy to a murderer like he did today if they were face to face?


    Joyce -- You know people who work under the table? So you're on your high horse about this guy using a legal program that impacts taxpayers but it's not a problem if your friends skip out on paying taxes?
    By Gavin Volaire @ 10/26/09 10:00:37 AMreport abuse
  • Food stamps?
    No such thing, they are called EBT cards. Many of these people would not be a burden on society anymore and would have died of famine years ago. But life is not fair, so they are fat, and better fed than the people who work. This is one of the contributing factors in the obesity rate, and government owned health care crisis.
    By Greg P. @ 10/26/09 09:59:30 AMreport abuse
  • I wonder
    Did this construction worker try other options before resorting to what he did. Did he try to make steps to create his own business using the skills he has. The construction business might not be booming right now, but there are other ways out there that you could apply your trade to.

    I know how hard it is to be out of work. The Clinton era .com bubble cost me a job where I was working. I was collecting some unemployment checks (never went as far as full welfare) to pay bills while I was job hunting. The guy just needs to get out there and try. I know I did and am a lot better for it. It's to easy to just give up and unfortunately our society lets people do just that.
    By Pete @ 10/26/09 09:59:24 AMreport abuse
  • @Snarkybird
    Hey, nice to see you in agreement on this, Snarkybird.
    By Twistedsaint @ 10/26/09 09:57:36 AMreport abuse
  • i don't get it
    i can see how neal feels this way. and how most of you feel this way. what i don't get is how you got mad at Alan Grayson when he got his take on the Republican health care plan: Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.
    that's what you mean here, don't you? you don't care if his family eats, so why should care if he gets a disease?

    consistency, folks.
    By tshirt-doctor.com @ 10/26/09 09:57:09 AMreport abuse
  • Well Said
    Very well said, Neal. And you guys who are quick to call Neal "heartless" or whatever....what about this guy that brought 4 kids into the world knowing full well that the only way he was going to support them is by stealing via government force? That's what I call wrong.

    @Bill: Neal earned every perk he's gotten. This construction guy didn't earn squat.

    @Greg: Years of progressive brainwashing has given you a lot of guilt. This guy screwed up. Bigtime. He has no one to blame but himself. But if you want to feel sorry for him, give him YOUR money...not someone else's.

    @Rob B.: No, the same standard applies. It's called planning. No one should ever count on their job always being there. If you do, then you are at fault and no one else. You are right: Plunder is plunder and just as wrong even in the FEW cases when you could truly say someone is not to blame for his own problems. Start a charity then, but don't steal from others-- still wrong.
    By Twistedsaint @ 10/26/09 09:53:08 AMreport abuse
  • NoSocialSecurityForMe
    You are part of the problem. You are a thief and a drain on society.
    By VTHS @ 10/26/09 09:49:44 AMreport abuse
  • Construction guy...
    I am always conflicted with these types of questions. Look and Europe (like Italy) and Japan. Their birth rates are so low and their average age has risen dramatically. Their current economy and society is under increasing pressure due to their birth rates.
    The second is the erosion of the middle class. In 1970, a guy could make $30k a year and have 4 kids and a house. His house payment was $350 a month and he could be proud. Now, the same guy is in poverty. It take $60k a year to be middle class, and most single earners don't make that much. It takes two, and then those 4 kids have to grow up in daycare and government schools while their parents work. There is so much wrong with the system, but it is not that guy's fault. No, he should not have had that many children. No, he should not have depended on construction to raise them. But what he is doing now would have succeeded just 40 years ago. The thing is, society NEEDS construction workers, and grocery workers, and delivery people, and warehouse workers, and garbage men, teachers, mechanics, etc, etc. But Neal, you are saying that while you NEED them for the function that they perform in society, you don't believe that they should have families or children because society as a whole does not pay them enough to do so. I can't say I agree with that, or that it is healthy for society as a whole. If families are the cornerstone of society (I think they are), having 4 kids might be on the high side of what one *should* have, but it is historically miniscule compared to family sizes before about 1960. To call someone like that a mooch when looking at his circumstances in a historical context (like the world before 1980) makes you look like an a**hole.


    If he is a loser, then most of the previous generations were also losers. They did exactly like he did, but were able to succeed.
    By rdh @ 10/26/09 09:48:21 AMreport abuse
  • CONSTRUCTION WORKER
    Right on Neal!!! Justin nailed it too I was like him. I busted my a$$ to get where I am and have struggled but I made those choices ( the correct ones). I also have a question to the CONSTRUCTION WORKER get up and move to where the work is!!!!!! you can find work and move your family to where you need to go to live. This is a huge country and there is a lot of opportunity and he needs to get off his duff and seize it. If he has to work several jobs to make ends meet then so be it!!! This is Lazyness in its truest form......
    By yobdab @ 10/26/09 09:48:01 AMreport abuse
  • Food Stamp People
    I see them every day. They stand before me in my line at Wal*Mart. I am working at Wal*Mart as a cashier part-time, in addition to my full-time job. My day job is in manufacturing. When the downturn hit, my employer cut out all over time. I looked for part-time work on the evenings and weekends to make ends meet. I currently work 70 hours per week, 45 at the day job at 25 at Wal*Mart. The 25 about makes up for 5 hours of lost overtime. My day employer also laid off 14 people, about 1/3 of the workforce, this year.
    The Food Stamp People (Moochers) stand before me in their fancy clothes, sporting jewelry and tattoos and fancy fake nails. They ring up $200-$250 in all manner of expensive convenience foods. They complain about having to pay for their toilet tissue. Then they whip out a $50 and pay for that too. Then their receipt prints out. Conveniently displayed at the bottom is their FS ending balance. $250 spent and $800 remaining!! I kid you not, some of these people, er, moochers, get a thousand bucks a month of taxpayer (future taxpayer) money. With a second income like that, I wouldn't need to work 25 hours a week at Wal*Mart. But I have a little more pride than those well-dressed slovens who stand before me.
    By No Name Today @ 10/26/09 09:42:14 AMreport abuse
  • stealing
    Neal I agree with you. When people see they can benefit from the gov't assistance programs, they can always justify it because of their situation and it is ok because they have fallen on hard times, blah blah. I have heard of WAY too many that work 3 jobs (however lowly they may be) to keep off of ANY gov't assistance because they have what SO many in this country lack - PRIDE! Our country is becoming nothing but a bunch of whiners and "what can my country do for me" group of people.
    By American girl @ 10/26/09 09:39:49 AMreport abuse
  • whiney babies
    I am tired of the whining from all these people that feel that they are entitled. Frankly I am sorry that Neal could not reach through the microphone and smack that deadbeat with a 2X4. That's right, deadbeat! If people want to start crying for government handouts because they cannot keep their pants zipped then we should be able to castrate them if they are irresponsible.

    For all of you liberals that want to come after me, keep this in mind. I left the reservation at 18 with nothing in my pockets. I LEARNED to speak English. I put my ignorant "savage" self through college. My mother raised three children on a Native American reservation with no help from anyone. So all you whiney and wussified liberals can SHOVE IT! I never wanted your pathetic liberal help and I never got it! Not once did I EVER mark that I was anything on the forms and I never used my status to gain anything through the liberal-ridden entitlement machine.

    Neal, please continue to put these cry babies in their place. And if you need help from someone who can wield a baseball bat, please count me in. I had three good 'ole KKK'rs show me how it feels when I was 17, so I'm ready to deal some pain.
    By off the reservation @ 10/26/09 09:38:50 AMreport abuse
  • It's easy to feel sorry for him but...
    Neal is right. My wife and I are both college grads with good jobs but we waited until our 30s and socked away cash before deciding to have our only child. Would we have liked another? Sure. But we knew what we could afford to do and stuck with our plan.

    Still, Neal is a pompous ass. Just saying.
    By Steve L. @ 10/26/09 09:36:48 AMreport abuse
  • We Get it
    A struggling middle class worker did EVERYTHING wrong by his/her own doing but a CEO screwing up their company needing tax dollars to survive should have all the sympathy from the Talk Master when his salary is cut.
    By Samael @ 10/26/09 09:35:16 AMreport abuse
  • You're spot on..........
    The caller also said in one year he pulled down $100,000. Why didn't he save it for the tough times? Something tells me he probably blew it on a bass boat, 2 pickup trucks and a Camaro without regard to what economic hide behind the corner.

    This pisses me off! My wife and I would like to have kids. However we don't because we simply can't afford them. Sure, we could get government "assistance", however we live by the code of "I swear by my life, and my love of it, that i shall never live for the sake of another man, nor shall i ask another man to live for mine."

    We simply refuse to handover the responsibility of raising and educating our children to day care centers and government schools.

    Caller was a looter and an ignoramus, but that's par for the course amongst people who pop out kids like rabbits.
    By VTHS @ 10/26/09 09:31:38 AMreport abuse
  • No pity here
    My wife and I have been together for 14 years and have no kids. By choice. I often hear from the breeders how I'm "missing out" and "oh you'll change your mind". My wife and I both busted our butts for years to get where we are now. She's a doctor and I own a restuarant. Hell, we still bust our butts everyday. Had we had kids we would be way behind on our goals. We made the choice. Along comes this guy and says hey I made some choices that I now can't afford so now YOU will pay for it. Thanks buddy.
    I once had a conversation with a guy who told me that the reason he kept having children (three) while he was out of work was because he knew God would provide. I said as long as it's God and not the government.

    There are two types of people. Weasels and weasel slappers.
    By weasel slapper @ 10/26/09 09:29:37 AMreport abuse
  • I'm on food stamps now....
    ...actually I have to go an apply for them this week (not looking forward to that one as I have been working non-stop for 22 years.) I'm 36 and felt conflicted re: my going "on the dole", but I look at this way = There is NO WAY that I will see one red cent of the money I have been forced to shell out for social security, so I'm going to leverage what program I can to assist my family of one wife, one newborn right now.
    By NoSocialSecurityForMe @ 10/26/09 09:28:26 AMreport abuse
  • more hard truth
    we allow him to steal through food stamps so he wont resort to stealing the old fashioned way.

    but, hey - he should have done more family planning, worn more condoms, or paid for more abortions.

    then he'd only need food stamps for two. so, less stealing = good, right?

    I agree with you neal - we should end all these programs.

    There is nothing I'd love more than people running as libertarians and republicans campaigning to end this theft.

    Please!! Convince more people to talk like this!!

    You are awesome!
    By snarkybird @ 10/26/09 09:26:51 AMreport abuse
  • "It is impossible to introduce into society a greater CHANGE and a greater EVIL than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder."
    Frédéric Bastiat
    By ACE @ 10/26/09 09:21:56 AMreport abuse
  • what is up with these people?
    My parents barely made enough to get by yet raised me right and not blame others for my own short comings. I went to government school and studied and got b average every year and i paid my own way through college and have now bought my own house. No hand outs...no help...all on my own. Im not "privileged" i worked hard and got what i wanted. These people need to quit bitchin and make the right choices and live with what decisions they made. ANYONE can go to college...you can get loan or work full-time and go to school like i did. Not that hard...
    By Justin @ 10/26/09 09:19:42 AMreport abuse
  • Construction Guy
    Your right on Neal. Might seem callous but you might have saved others from future problems.
    By Tom Jeffers @ 10/26/09 09:19:07 AMreport abuse
  • construction worker
    I feel badly for the unemployed man in his situation, but come on....after child #2 people really need to think about if they can afford to keep popping them out. There are ways to prevent it, you know.
    By Yep @ 10/26/09 09:18:05 AMreport abuse
  • Constr. Worker
    I would question the 200,000 - 250,000 dollar price tag for raising a child, with two or more you get hand-me-downs, as the youngest of seven I know.
    As to the kids college, mom and dad aren't responsible for that. Hopefully this guys out taking any job he can get. Food stamps, and unemployment I can accept he's paid in or at least his employer did, but he can't sit and wait for the perfect job.
    By Norm814 @ 10/26/09 09:18:03 AMreport abuse
  • Paid his taxes???
    Neak:

    IF your guesstimate of this person's income is accurate, exactly what taxes did this guy pay anyway? A family of 6 with under 30K of income??? Try NONE.

    OK he paid FICA and State, but that is all. And neither of those taxes covered his food stamps.

    Neal, you missed this bullet !
    By D @ 10/26/09 09:17:44 AMreport abuse
  • Still a snob
    The logic of what you say about the construction worker having children he cannot afford is valid. But that still does not excuse you for being a snob Neal and you are a snob. You ride around in your airplane, eat at nice restaurants (probably free because they get a PR bump from your presence) you get deals on things the rest of us have to pay full price for (I talked with a pop-up camper dealer and found that out) and so forth. People with wealth and status get breaks because vendors see a possible PR bump. Then you berate regular people to excuse yourself. That's a snob Neal. This guy might have been a fan. You could have offered him a job to do something you need around your house. That would have given him a PR bump. But you chose to berate him. That's who you are and it's what you do. You do it well too. I guess I feel sorry for you. It must suck to be a cold-hearted snob that people either don't like or that they kiss-up to. Do you have any real friends?
    By Bill @ 10/26/09 09:17:08 AMreport abuse
  • Hear! Hear!
    Well said Neal. I couldn't agree with you more.
    By Gary @ 10/26/09 09:15:00 AMreport abuse
  • Food Stamps
    Sorry Neal, you missed this one. I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are wrong. I agree with you quite a bit but on this one you are wrong. We have to have some level of support for those impacted by the economy. Drop your ploy for ratings, open your heart, think about it for a few minutes, say a pray in what every way you prefer and understand in some cases kindness is needed. And don't give me this junk you were doing him a favor and showing kindness be telling him the truth. Trust me he knows the truth. What he needs now is an apology from you.
    By Greg @ 10/26/09 09:14:08 AMreport abuse
  • Should there be a different standard?
    Ok, I get it - but, what about this situation. Guy makes all the right decisions, college educated, good job, wise investments, etc.; then economy goes bad, loses his job and savings, now he's got kids to feed (kids that he could afford prior to losing his job)and now he need govt. assistance - what then? Is this guy any more deserving? Plunder is plunder, right? At least according to Boortz. I dunno, seems like the standard should be different.
    By Rob B. @ 10/26/09 09:10:32 AMreport abuse
  • Absolutely right
    I had someone tell me 'it might not be his fault, he might now have planned on having 4 children,' and I said there's only one thing that leads to children, and it sure wasn't an accident. People just don't want to take responsibility for themselves. He put himself in that situation, deciding not to further his education. And don't use the money excuse.. I'm a college graduate, and my family is poor, so we used college loans the whole way, so anybody can do it. And then he decides to have a big family.. it just drives me crazy that people think that's an ok thing to do! Take some damn responsibility!
    By Jeremy @ 10/26/09 09:07:57 AMreport abuse
  • One more bit of insensitivity
    Who hasn't known a construction worker that to work under the table? I'd bet that a good bit of his salary went un-reported and untaxed.
    By Joyce M/Blythe @ 10/26/09 09:06:27 AMreport abuse
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