joyce, margins can remain static but profits can still rise if revenue grows dramatically.

top 10 insurers profits rose over 400 percent from 2000 to 2007 from $2b to $12b according to SEC filings

I'm all for the free market and profit. But when a company is turning away people who can't afford care, tax payers foot that bill and those people lose everything.

meanwhile insurance company profits are high - and growing.. and not by 10 or 20 percent but triple digits.

to me, this reform effort is the direct result of insurance companies pissing off a large enough portion of the market to get a reaction.

and that reaction is happening through the constitutional means of our representative republic.

Snarkybird,

You are right. I don't have all the answers, and there is no perfect answer.

Also you are correct in that no politician will get elected selling this. But you asked for solutions, not "feel-good let's get me elected" crapola.

That, in fact, is the entire reason why we have such a borked system right now... politicians only get elected by offering enough "free stuff." Too many people don't want to be responsible.

Compromise, as you say, is all we can do...and in fact is what we HAVE been doing. That's why there is almost no difference between liberal and conservative politicians....but the compromising is only slowly destroying us.

Oh, and while I'm not saying I know it all or "more than the teacher".... I do completely agree with the expression "Those that can... do, those that can't...teach." ;-)

No offense to all you teachers. We do need you and there are terrific ones out there...but many of them are really not so bright.

SS - please tell me how you sell an end to a safety retirement net after what we just saw happen in the markets? People are scared. it harkens them back to the reasons SS was enacted to begin with. I get your assumed take on this, that it's not the govt's job to worry about this for them... this is nanny state at its worst. OK - without the barrel of your own gun, how do you change it?

healthcare - deregulate completely? I'm sorry but you presume that insurance companies have been the good guys so far. this sure sounds like letting the fox watch the henhouse. What makes you think that the deadly policies of insurance would improve? or that people would be better off? free markets are just there to provide opportunity - not fairness.

but - I get it now. Every time I write my response I try to think about your perspective and I see it now - you just want the govt to go away. every man for himself.

Fine. All I'm saying is - you're never going to get anything you want unless you're willing to admit you dont have all the answers and come to the table and compromise. and you wont even get that without first coming up with sale-able ideas to win elections.

again, ideology is great cocktail conversation. But we've got real problems to solve and time waits for no man. You can come to terms with that or keep being that kid who thinks he knows more than everyone else. But you and I both know that kid never gets to be class president. He fades away into obscurity... Or, on a rare occasion - he becomes a powerful ideologue who creates radical change through violent means.

either way, not good for our society. So, expect a fight - I'm armed. :-)

I kinda agree with the statement that the free market is a joke. Our elected leaders have stuck their fingers into so much of our economy that there is /very/ little free market left. Once the government sticks its regulating mitts into the mix, you absolutely DO get people gaming the system to come out ahead. Read David Cay Johnston's "Free Lunch" and/or "Perfectly Legal." The guy's a bleeding heart liberal, but he's a pretty decent investigative reporter. He find lots of instances of folks with political access gaming the system -- very successfully. I wholly disagree with his conclusions. Like many naive folks, he thinks the way to fix broke regulation is with more government intervention. A little logical analysis will tell you that the way to fix the broken system is to give government less power, not more -- every time we give them more power, they abuse it even worse. But to come back to the original point, we have so MUCH government intervention that the US economy is a likeness of a free market, and little more. :(

Hmmm,,

Social Security
Pay out what is currently owed, and allow me to keep the remainder of my money and invest it where I see fit. Sorry that may offend some folks out there, as it entails paying of current debts owed, and also reeks with the stench of responsibility for my own retirement.
Health Care
Remove the government out of the equation; allow me to search across state borders for health insurance providers, thus allowing for profits to compete making me and my family the winners.
When did this become a right in the first place,, I will refer you to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which BTW all politicians take an oath to preserve against enemies both foreign and domestic,, a bit nostalgic I know, but look how much better shape our country was in when we actually adhered to those tenants.
Govt Debt
Quit Spending on entitlement programs, and attempts (that by the way have historically failed miserably) to create Eden on earth. It has never happened,, and sorry the current group of socialist are not going to make it happen now.
Immigration
Enforce current immigration laws and DEPORT folks that are breaking the law by being here illegally. Also close the borders,, maybe that is a bit broad,, let me refine... try with all of our might to reduce the number of folks trying to cross our borders illegally.

Pretty easy really..

So outside of those,, you asked for a solution I believe, here it goes;
Protect the smallest amidst us, and secure their sovereignty, by giving them the freedom to succeed via hard work and education, without government intervention unless their acts deny other of their life liberty or pursuit of happiness.

Notice that happiness is also not a right,, the pursuit of such however is…

"Obama DARED / BEGGED the GOP to come up with cuts. they fell flat. they tried to put forward their own budget - it was a brochure with more of these 'generalities'"

One clueless politician asking another group of clueless politicians for ideas....cute.

"So, let me ask again - you hate all this 'stuff'. How would you fix it?"

1. SS insolvency: Get rid of it. It's a massive ponzi scheme that would be illegal in the private sector. It sucks for a lot of the 'victims' forced to pay into it...but perpetuating it will only make things worse down the road.

2. Healthcare costs: Deregulate completely. Get the government out. A lot of you will blow a gasket at that idea, but it's just the koolaide talking. Really. Thats the result of decades of government brainwashing that you neeeeeed their help. You don't, but there is no way I can convince you of that until you do your own thinking.

3. Govt debt: Cut all entitlement programs. No more govt funded "studies," either. Get rid of the IRS--convert to fair tax or something like it. No govt funding for anything that is not specifically listed in the Constitution as a function of the FEDERAL govt (not State). Again I can almost hear your cries of "Think about the children!!" or some such nonsense. Govt (and the moocher class) is out of control and only drastic measures will do anything. The smart, adaptable people will get through it, and the losers that depend on government will die off. I'm fine with that. And if you're NOT fine with that-- start a charity. But don't steal from me.

4. Immigration: Really not as relevant as everyone likes to make it seem. In a true free market economy, one that is not filled with ridiculous out-of-control unions, corporate and social welfare, regulation that does nothing but line government pockets, and mostly ineffective law enforcement, there is no reason to care about immigration. The productive class will rise up, and the losers, thugs, criminals, etc will die off--eventually. It doesn't matter where they come from.

Again, I can already hear the gasps of "But don't I even care!?" Whatever. The moocher class and excuse-driven losers have been using guilt as a weapon for decades, thanks in large part to backwards progressive thinking. I'm over it.

I can't find that quote about the downfall of any nation being when the people realize they can vote money out of the government coffers for themselves, but this one cuts pretty close to our current situation:

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." -- Thomas Jefferson

Unfortunately all those older people who got on board the free ride train still want their handouts because they weren't smart enough to look after #1.

You know how we reduce spending, the deficit, and everything else? End the empire, bring everyone home, let the world fend for itself. Put some of those men on our borders, cut defense programs that were meant to prop up the Empire, cut SS, medicaire, and several full departments of the federal government that are unconstitutional and delegate those powers back out to the states where they belong.

more fanciful ideas - we just need to cut spending, cut taxes, and close the border.

Um, OK. cut spending where? on what? cut taxes how much? which ones? close the border? how? physically?

Again, I know this stuff keeps you warm at night but, the rest of us have work to do. If you have real ideas - great. If all you have is this ideological claptrap with no substance - continue with the echo chamber and please allow the boortz's of the world to keep you pacified.

no wonder bartlett and frum have been outcast - the kids want to play some more and grownups just get in the way.

Isn't SS heading for bankruptcy?
What about all those other programs?

Where is all the money going to come from for your grandiose vote buying schemes?

BTW, you STILL haven't disproven that Obama is a Statist, Just like you still haven't proven that Statism can work.

You want to be real careful making those comparisons – we're talking about a huge organization of thugs and thieves that rob people blind.

The mafia might not like being compared to that.

Well isn't that special Snarky!

1) There have been several plans by the GOP, but somehow the Dems won't let them out of commity....wonder why?

2) For the last thirty years, tax cuts, even proposed by Dems, sure seem to boost the economy...guess it was dumb luck!

3) Bush did increase the deficit, however Obama makes him look like an amature.

4) Maybe you should have read a little further in the CBO report, because there was a lot of "off the books" cost that is not being figured in.

I am going to complain (and loudly) that the only answer is a tax increase. You can twist it anyway you want but the fact remains that even long before Bush senior, low taxes means more revenue (private & goverment)

When we raise taxes (and it is comming) for healthcare, cap & trade and a multitude of other things, how will you justify it people who are barely hanging on now? What will you say to them when they have nothing?

Snark, I lived through housing bubbles just like the last one, this time goverment made it worse and is still doing so.

(NOT TO SNARKY) I can't believe how hard liberals work to NOT SEE what is going on. Brian I have seen boxes of corn flakes with more brains the you.

When people start watching politics and stop listening to politicans, then they we become civil servents again and we will all be better off!

as I said, you wont get anywhere with your fancy philosophies without winning an election on them.

And, again - try to sell small govt and radical cuts to SS and medicare to an aging boomer population without some rational carrots and sticks and see where that gets you.

That's all I'm saying. There are rational conservatives out there. You arent them.

You cant get with the program or fall to the side and let dem's just drive the ship completely.

up to you really.

Neckid

Now if you had said "his catcher" it would have to be put on the 3 dollar bill

Yes, FDR was also a statist...so what's your point?

Just like a true lib: Raising taxes is the only option.

The idea of cutting costs doesn't even occur to you.

Oh, and "wildly popular" does not mean "good." Obama, for example, was "wildly popular" during election time....and he sucks.

The only people that still find FDR and Obama "wildly popular" are those that don't understand economics--REAL WORLD economics, and not that crackpot Keynes. His ideas are crap but you think they're great--but common sense is all you need to refute them. You cannot spend your way out of debt. Period. Keynes' ideas create nothing but a house of cards that eventually comes crashing down. FDR's policies are still, today, decades later, wrecking our economy.

I've explained how before as have others on this board, and I get tired of repeating it so I won't.

Oh, and I don't care what the health plan does to our debt or whatever... aside from the fact that you KNOW deep down it's bull, it is unconstitutional, just like SS, Medicare, and all those other entitlement programs. Furthermore, it's unethical and unjust.

Last note: I don't care what you believe in or think about regulation, entitlement programs, taxes, whatever--you need to understand that govt is still not the answer.
It's like saying gee I need someone to guard my house (a fair statement), so I'll hire the mafia to keep it safe (bad idea). Well, when you ask for government involvement, you're getting the mafia (figuratively speaking)-- watch out.

maos pitcher is gonna be on our new $2 bill.......barnyard frankfooters is gonna be on the $3.......

Wildly popular among the progressives you mean. He may have been a registered republican but I've posted several quotes of his that make it obvious he was all about big government controlling all aspects of our lives. People back then were not fully aware of the effect his policies would have long term as many were much less educated than the general public is today, yes even government educated. The progressives had just started forming their ideals and how to get there around 1920 so this was a new concept to many. They kept it under wraps for quite some time except in a few publications you can still run across.

Government spending just keeps adding to the problem, forget Keynes, look to Austrian models.

We haven't had a true free market in the country in a long time. Big Business has been "gaming the system" since before the Depression. It IS indeed all about politics.

Where is Joe McCarthy when you need him? Do the memories of his intrusive investigations cower the nation from asking a few straightforward questions?

didn't mao make the trains run on time???

Actually, FDR was a something of a statist.
If Obama is a pragmatist, why is he ballooning the debt to unsustainable levels?
P.S> I already have a dog and a gun.

You just made our enemies list for using the g word.

Amazing how being an appointee in a usurper's administration makes one openly invite an exasperated patriot to go Carl Drega-Stuart Alexander. When at last it occurs I will go outside & cheer gloatingly.

lets see...

obama writes about his affinity for communism..

he attents a church for more than 20 year based on marxism.

hes buddys and pals with communist terrorist william ayers

he appoints an avowed communist to the green jobs "czar" position

he appoints a man who wants compulsory sterilization and (essentially) a 1 world communist government as another czar

his communications director is mao's biggest fan..

his manufacturing czar is mao's 2nd biggest fan.

WHERE COULD I BE GOING WITH ALL THIS?!

I bet the CPUSA is so happy to be represented by this administration....

Yeah, just because Obama's czars quote Mao, say that they like his philosophy, and try to incorporate it into government policy, doesn't mean they agree with everything he said. Right.
Contrary to your liberal wet dream about "trailer hicks", most people on here have cognizant reasoning skills and informed opinions.

We know you liberal Ivory Tower poofs are so much more sophisticated than the proletariat...because Mao said so.

Precious! When Mao says "Power is born from the barrel of a gun", it's true, for Maoists and fellow travelers. Neal you would agree with that. It is exactly what you say the IRS is based on to tkae money from us. The problem is that liberals confuse "Power" with "Authority". A rapist with a gun has "power" over its victim but no authority. Today's Liberals do not believe in essential democratic values. They have de-constructed everything down to "power". Our Founding Fathers believe in power but that power resides in authority, that is "authorship", and that authors of that power is the people, not the government as a separate, autonomous entity. Communists, liberals, feminazis, etc., only believe in power. They reject authority. Authority requires legitimacy. Power requieres only force.

where all of this is going?

http://prisonplanet.tv/movies.html

Get informed.

Neal writes - "I think if the American voters ... and this includes black voters who voted for this menace simply because of skin pigmentation ... need to freaking wake up or this country is royally screwed."

I think it goes deeper than that. If the american voter can't get rid of the scum in washington then it will be left up to the armed patriots to finish the job. I think washington knows that but continues to test to see just how far we will allow them to go before it comes to that. In the mean time, we scream, we yell, we beg and plead, we try to reason and use every non-violent method we can until our only resource is Civil War II.

Brian Fontana is just Jimmy Dolan, ignore him.

I wholeheartedly agree with him and Mao that "political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun." Now, granted, the rest of the excerpt presented turns my stomach, but I can hardly take exception to that particular point. Granted, I wouldn't have prefaced it with "we agree with Mao," but his point is solid.

Rousseau's concept of the social contract aside, political power is, at its root, derived from the use of force. Without the threat of physical force, where is the power of the political entity to compel a citizen in any way? Even with regard to the idea of the social contract - an idea incontrovertibly fundamental to our own system of government - the proverbial gun to the head (a gun held by the body politic) is the sole means of enforcing that contract.

The picture of Nixon shaking hands with Mao
My goodness, how would today's conservatives react to Nixon's visit to China and his shaking hands with Mao?
By Catseye

At least he didn't bow to him.

You know why your ratings are in the toilet, Neal? Because you act like a full on nutjob. Oh well, you'll be quitting to "spend more time with your family" or somesuch soon enough, I suppose.

This country is royally screwed...

Look at the quote: "We kind of agree with Mao that political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun."

How is that "singing the praises of Mao"? it could just as well be the motto of the NRA. If Mao says the sky is blue and ice is cold, and I agree with him, am I 'singing his praises"?

My goodness, how would today's conservatives react to Nixon's visit to China and his shaking hands with Mao?