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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

ANOTHER AMERICAN FLAG DEBATE

By
Neal Boortz
@ October 20, 2009 8:36 AM
Permalink | Comments (37) | TrackBacks (0)

Last week we had the story about the apartment complex in Oregon that wouldn't allow American flags on its property. Luckily ... and after a lot of pressure ... the apartment complex finally came to its senses. But now we have this story out of Chester, Pennsylvania. James Krapf has been a firefighter for 11 years. Last week he was suspended without pay because he refused to peel a sticker of the American flag from the door of his locker.

The department decided to implement a new rule that all stickers and statements be removed from lockers because they could be deemed "racist" or "offensive." Apparently the new rule was put in place after someone posted an "offensive" cartoon on a locker.

So last week, everyone removed paraphernalia from their lockers. But when it came to the American flag sticker, Krapf refused to remove it. The Fire Commissioner insisted that he follow the new policy, also insisting that it is not about the symbolism of the American flag ... that was not the issue.

This is 21st Century America under Barack Obama. You can't even put the American Flag on your locker at a fire department. Maybe if we replaced the Stars and Stripes with the Obama "O" it would be better.



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What others are saying

  • US Flag
    This is the USA and our flag is not offensive. if you do happen to find it offensive, feel free to leave the country. Many people died for that flag.
  • no anti-Americanism here
    What does Obama have to do with any of this?

    The no-stickers rule applied to ALL stickers. Nobody accused the American flag of being offensive, but the fire department just didn't want to get into the business of being the sticker police. Besides, how much time does this guy spend at his locker? He can just as easily put his flag sticker on his car, or whatever else he wants to put it on. The rules apply to everyone, even those who want to make a big deal out of their patriotism. This guy is just being obnoxious.
  • @ butt neckid
    You said it, man. I'm surprised to see that you busted out nearly legible grammar to drive this point home... rules are rules, if you don't like them, find another employer. Flag, Cross, Crescent, or "Vote Kenobi '08" sticker, it doesn't matter. Rules are rules, and when you’re told by a superior to peel off a sticker, it isn’t like you’re being told to kill an innocent. …Just do what you’re told.

    Thanks for your service btw. We as a collective don't show the due gratitude to the guys and gals that serve our nation; from the generals (including Powell) all the way down to the small-town police officers. We all may not support the jobs that our servicepersons are asked to do, but I think it is fair to say that we should support the dedication and loyalty shown by those in uniform.
  • rules are rules
    You can't put the American Flag up in the middle of a crowded theater either.

    I see no connection, whatsoever, to Obama in this story.

    Come on Neal, lets keep it real. Local events are just that... local. Not everything has to do with the White House.
  • I did my duty....................................
    well ain't this nice..............everybuddy is upset 'bout a sticker on a fire department locker.......

    yes he can.....no he can't.....commie sumbitch......flag wavin' bigot......

    as a veteran, like many here, I have thoughts 'bout this non-issue.....

    for a major part of my life I offered up my life in the service of my nation. I was subject to being placed in harms way at any moment, as were many of you.........

    we swore an oath to serve, obey, defend.....and we signed that document! we were spit on, cussed at but we did our duty.....

    some even destroyed the symbol of the nation while we watched.....and we didn't shoot 'em......the old white slave owners back in philly may have shot 'em......not us...why not????

    we swore an oath and signed it.....it was our duty!

    now the bosses of the fire department don't want ANY stickers on THE DEPARTMENTs lockers.....so a simple few words could have been written kinda like this.....NO STICKERS ON ANY DEPARTMENT LOCKERS. that's all that is needed no long explainations NO STICKERS...

    the fire fighter has two options
    1. remove the sticker.....
    2. find a job.......
    when he joined the department I'm sure he signed something that included the words......obey orders from those appointed above.......or something close to that......

    REMOVE THE STICKER OR FIND ANOTHER JOB!!

    firemen, cops and our young warriors MUST operate as a team and this guy is not playing like a team member.....any questions????? if you have any questions talk to my lawyer.....I got a balloon to launch.......hey kid com'ere!!!!
  • I salute you..............................
    J.T. CORNPONE.........once again you have cleared the issue up with just a few words..............

    you are 100% correct.......

    I would like to kno' what his team mates think about the rule and his stance........not that their opinion makes any difference to the rule......

    well done my brutha from a different mutha......
  • Flags on Uniforms
    Dont police, fire, etc wear US flags on their uniforms? Don't US soldiers wear them too?
  • Are we back in 1988?
    The "big issues" of the 1988 presidential campaign were the Pledge of Allegiance and flag burning. I thought we moved beyond that. But from the comments here, I guess we have not.

    When, oh when, have the skies over an American city ever been darkened, and the air choked with smoke, by rampant flag burning? Can anyone find any evidence of a protest anywhere in the U.S. since the Vietnam War where a flag was burned? And if it did happen once or twice, did it threaten the survival of our republic?

    Big Joe, settle down . . . or go visit one of those car dealerships with dozens of flags in front, so you can get all tingly inside.
  • No stickers is no stickers. No.
    Sorry.

    "No stickers" means "NO STICKERS".

    It's not his locker. It's not his house. It's not his property. So why the flip should he be allowed to what the flip he wants with it?

    Hey, I'm 100% for flying the American flag proudly. On my own property, and in public places. I know my rights, I can fly an American flag on my property. (Even when it was radically uncool to be patriotic and support Bush, I flew that flag. A windstorm ripped it off my wall last November. I just don't have the enthusiasm to put it back up at the moment. Nor do I want a visit from Dunne & Co.)

    Anyway, I'm not going to expect to be allowed to tattoo an American flag onto my bare butt and parade around the office with it. These colors don't streak? Psh. Have some respect for the flag. (Like that guy who let it turn to tatters waiting for his son to return. What an idiot that was.)

    The locker didn't belong to this guy. The owner of the locker said "NO STICKERS." Do what the owner says. Or, in your free time, buy your own locker, put it in your own firehouse, and stick whatever the hell you want on it. Knock yourself out.

    And since he works in an organization that can't help itself, has to hire morons and cretins who think racially offensive stickers are just "good fun" then screw them all, they're children that can't be trusted. Slap them down, teach them some manners and how to respect others.

    NO STICKERS means NO STICKERS.
  • Blaming Obama
    "This is 21st Century America under Barack Obama. You can't even put the American Flag on your locker at a fire department. Maybe if we replaced the Stars and Stripes with the Obama "O" it would be better. "

    Obama had nothing to do with this policy or this incident. Sounds like the guy who went on TV blaming Obama for "potato day"
  • Big Joe Williams
    you go, Big Joe Williams! give it to them commies! they defeated us in world war 2 but who would know that fascism would be re-energized by the US. i like to quote our hero, benito mussolini who said, "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

    you are so intelligent, i'm glad your on our side!
  • THIS flag is offensive? To Who?
    The United States flag is only offensive to foreigners and communists. And by God, its about time someone told them to get the hell out of OUR country. They're "OFFENSIVE" to me. If you don't like the United States or our flag, well, there are flights that leave our beautiful country 24 hours a day. Pick one and move your ass!
  • The Ole Offensive American Flag!
    I never ever thought I would see the day when the people of this country were OFFENDED by their own flag.

    Trouble brewing.
  • Rules are rules, but not all rules are right!
    Sometimes you have to look at the rule and decide that, “Hey this goes too far,” and fight it like this firefighter is doing. This rule is badly written. It was made for a purpose and instead of solving the problem it creates another. Regardless of how you view this, non-issue, no big deal, waste of time, very important, or an attack on our nation’s symbols, you all know that this WILL end up being a press nightmare for that fire department, maybe a legal one too. If the powers that be had taken the time and energy to think before acting this could have been avoided. This is just another Zero Tolerance aka Zero Responsibility or Thought rule.

    @Jenny - Because conservatives (non-extremist conservatives anyway) and moderates aren't liberal jerks that go around burning flags and hating their country just because they see it going in the wrong direction. They stick with it, try to change it back to what they see as decent and get the people (like BO, Reid and Pelosi) that they see turning things upside down out of power. When exactly was it that you remember any non liberal burning a US flag? Make no mistake. Most people who take the time to think and aren’t so extreme for one party or the other only see protestors as hating America when they actually STATE as much. It is extremists LIKE you on the other side that call you un-American, just like you call them that. Frankly you both suck wind!
  • No stickers?
    Get a magnet
  • Decals
    These lockers belong to the township, counties or states. In essence, not to the user of the locker. If a policy is in place regarding defacing public property, then it's a blanket policy. Personally, I see no harm in putting an American flag on the locker but what's next? Removing the American flag patch from their uniforms because it's offensive to somebody?
  • Jenny
    You know, Jenny, it's typically liberal of you to wonder why conservatives would be upset about an issue regarding the flag when we're so angry about Obama destroying the country we love. Get it through your head. We're upset with OBAMA. We LOVE our country. We want to protect and defend our country. And we want to protect the rights of people who choose to show that respect by displaying the flag.

    Now, that said, it's really a shame that some idiot at that fire station posted something "offensive" that resulted in another bone-headed "zero-tolerance" rule about stickers. This really is 1) poor management and 2) another example of how the courts taking ridiculous cases has ruined the ability of managers to use discretion. Managers now institute "zero-tolerance" rules because if they manage only dealing with the offender, they have to spend $$$$$ on lawyers when they get sued. Another thing for which we have liberals to thank.
  • Flag
    No stickers allowed on the lockers. What's not to understand? The attention should be on the knucklehead that posted something that was 'deemed' offensive. One bad apple can ruin the whole bunch.
  • Rules
    I am going to have to side with the fire department on this one. It sounds as if they made a rule to prevent any bickering over what can and cannot be placed on the lockers. It seems that it is perfectly okay to place the sticker on the inside of the locker. If they allow it on the outside of the locker, they would have to allow other flags on the outside of the lockers because they cannot discriminate against nation of origin. Most firehouses in my area fly the American flag outside the firehouse. I bet if the fire fighter desired he could have the flag sewn onto his gear. I am somewhat curious as to the true “racist” nature of the cartoon that started the whole debacle.
  • After reviewing the video:
    Yep! There it is! On their right sleeves. They WEAR the flag, but God forbid they put on the locker?!? Absurdity at its finest.
  • No flag allowed on the locker...
    ...but it is probably on the very uniform they wear, day in and day out. How ironic.
  • Quiet as kept ...
    Understand this! It's MY freaking locker, it's MY office, I pay the rent / own the building - and also your salary - and if I don't want any stickers/signage on MY office wall / locker / whatever --- THII! (That's How It Is!)

    What's the issue again?

    Now, if you want to put posters / stickers / signage / whatever all over YOUR property, have at it. Just leave MY property undecorated by your (insert your favorite epithet here).

    Thank you.

    The management.
  • Topic that panders to uneducated rednecks
    Yeah, dem commie-lovin libruhls, they ain't fit to be Americans. Now they's takin' away my flags. Far as I'm concerned, dey can go live in Rusha.

    Now get me another beer while I put in my new DVD of Hee Haw season 3 that I saved up to buy for 3 months.
  • Conservative Logic on Flag
    I am amazed conservatives still care about the flag . . . they've spent the past year saying that Obama is destroying America as they know it. So why would conservatives get all teary-eyed and emotional about a piece of colored cloth representing a country they apparently no longer respect?

    If Obama "succeeds in destroying the country" then it will be the right wing that will be taking down and burning their flags.
  • It's really quite simple...
    ...if you are offended by our flag by which countless men and women have lost their lives and livelihoods defending then I have four clear and concise words for you: GET THE #%*@ OUT!!! It infuriates me that the politically correct pansies have brought us down to this level.
  • If anyone in this country finds the flag of this country offensive, perhaps some of the stimulus money could be used for a one way ticket elsewhere.
  • Rule or not ...
    ... it's assinine to prevent people displaying the American flag. It's simpley a symbol of national pride, and if people get offended by it they can get out of the damn country.

    This country is seriously messed up because we spend to much time worrying about offending people. Grow some damn skin ya big babies.
  • 21st Century under Obama
    Neal, could you please explain how Obama is responsible for the policy that the firehouse implemented, interested to see how powerful the man really is.
  • Tired of this
    Yes, Tim. It's just a rule. Because all rules are correct and justifiable, regardless of the possible motivations behind them. Because you should just go along to get along. Because you should just obey. After all, rules is rules. What's wrong with you sheeple? Stand for something or fall for anything.
  • Flag Waving
    Neal,

    Although I often disagree with you, I respect the fact that you usually stay away from stupid emotional "flag" topics that resonate so well in trailer parks, motorcycle riding clubs, among high school dropouts, and at the Palin family dinner table.

    This is a complete non-issue.
  • Yeah, sure, it's Obama's fault
    "This is 21st Century America under Barack Obama. You can't even put the American Flag on your locker at a fire department. Maybe if we replaced the Stars and Stripes with the Obama "O" it would be better".

    Yeah, Neal, President Obama was personally involved with the rules for locker room decorations in Chester, PA.

    By the way, do any of you out there affix stickers to your company's property?
  • Offended?
    You are offended by the American flag? You think it's racist? Fine. Which would you prefer? A one way plane ticket to North Korea or to Uganda?
  • take it down
    it could be offensive to Native Americans just like the battle flag of the Confederacy is offensive to blacks.
  • Conservatives still crying
    Much like debates about abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, pornography, and music w/ bad language, conservatives are crying and want the government involved more. Obama did not have anything to do w/ this, but once conservatives see something offensive to them, when in doubt blame Obama. This is a small fire station in a city nobody has heard from, who cares?

    Quit crying conservatives and do something constructive!
  • "Maybe if we replaced the Stars and Stripes with the Obama "O" it would be better."

    Or maybe just the good old hammer and sickle.
  • Let's use the liberal playbook
    The head guy is black and the fireman is white? It must be racial discrimination!!! Maybe they can have lunch and a beer at the White House.
  • Sorry
    Sorry, Neal, but just like the stupid HOA's, it's a rule. No stickers. I think it's pretty stupid as well to make him take the flag down but...it's the rule - no stickers.
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