This is not about healthcare & not about money except in the case of debt; whomever holds the debt holds the POWER.

Government & government regulations are our problem.

Medicare etc. is government health care, they pay 80% to hospitals and doctors that accept medicare. The hospital & doctors pass the 20% or more depending on services to insurance companies: whom pass it onto us. That is why insurance continues to rise.

Regulations sell you whole packages of stuff you don't need adds to the cost. For example: A woman must pay for prostrate and testicular cancel coverage without the anatomy. Men must pay for pregnancy and female cancers of all kinds; and they too also the anatomy for these diseases.
We are not allowed to purchase from other states. Competion.
Malpractice Insurance putting providers out of business because the damn lawyers run this country.

We on the reservation already have Government run Indian healthcare;
If you want a real education and not just liberal dribble talking points, I suggest you research how great this is working out for us.

Since obama and a few others here and elsewhere what to invoke what is Biblical. I would like to point out a few biblical principals against universal health care.

1. Thou shall NOT steal.
stealing is stealing whether from rich, poor or middle class; especially at gun point, imprisonment and/or $$$$ fines.

2. Peter said if you don't work, you don't eat.

3. Debt is not biblical. You are not to be a slave to debt.

4. Inheritance. You are to leave the next generation an inheritance. DEBT will be all we leave if we don't defeat this obamanation.

5. Rationing; No such thing in the Bible. the creator does not see anyone as more or less to be rationed with.

6. We are commanded to help the orphans and widows. The homeless due to infirmmaries, not out of choice(alcohol, drugs, laziness) etc. NOT BROOD MARES with CHILDREN MEAL TICKETS, that WANT A BIGGER BETTER PLACE, ELECTRIC ASSISTANCE, FREE MEDICAL, DENTAL, FOOD AND TRACK CELL PHONES.

Yes, hardworking taxpayers pay for track cell fons for the supposed poor; they get free phone(s) and 69 free minutes every month; however if you have 4 children under AFDC, they each qualify for a cell phone, age doesn't matter, what does matter is that you use family and/or false addresses as they are to be limited to one per household. Your government at work. Thieves at the window.

7. Justice; means to punish for wrongdoing, and nothing else.

8. Equality; means equal opportunity, not equal results.

Consider this; if you're young, you will spend all of your entire working life slaving to pay for this power grab as well your children and at this rate your childrens.... children.

Tocommonsense. Common Sense tells me that when you hit retirement age and you NO longer contribute TAXES; as a productive member you will be the first to GO and that's change you can believe in.

OK, first - if you are for reform - put up or shut up. GOP, refused to submit a bill.

Second - go to pbs website and search for the interview. Or youtube - it's all there...the photos were part of the interview.

oh good grief, I know you wont so.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-M10jDkmm0

third - profit. the problem is the service is healthcare. meaning, sure, you can make decisons about how to remain profitable but, the sick people dont go away. they just get sicker. and then where do they go (hint, it starts with a "g")? In the end, whatever costs are out there get absorbed - insurance just chooses not to absorb them in the interest of profit.

Barriers to entry for health insurance are huge so competition remains low while costs for consumers remain high (even with many tort reform actions at state level). Sure, you could increase competition but, those barriers have more to do with size and scope than regulations. What you'd end up with is govt subsidizing those barriers for entrepreneurs. And then costs would still be high. Like it or not, insurance spends less of every dollar on care each year and more towards "other things" like admin costs...or margin.

guess what - govt isnt liking it. so, amazingly, the actions of the insurance companies are having a direct effect and viola! - reform from govt.

I agree - we could come up with a better bill and I'm not 100 percent happy with it as it stands today. But, I'd rather get something and then take it from there then get nothing and live with the status quo.

Reason: Well said. I could not have said it better myself!! You are spot on. I do want to add one thing, though:

To those (like Snarky) that think it is 'evil' to put profits before patients:

What gives you the right to dictate that a company should pay or provide you with services you want and not make a profit? Or that they shouldn't put profit first? By who's moral principle is that? By that logic, I want you to come over to my house, mow my grass, wash my car, and do my laundry....and if you want to make a profit doing that, well, you're just being evil and greedy. What audacity!

You're right Matt. This is typical Democrat doublespeak. "MY plan doesn't contain X." Yes, but it's not YOUR plan Congress is working on -- it's THEIRS. So you can tell the truth and deceive the American people at the same time.

Just like Chicago...

they're asking to "ration" service by not delivering on Saturday.

Who said that? Don't be ridiculous. Health Fairs always get good turnouts, but still, we have been saying all along that there are things that could be done to make it easier, cheaper and more accessible WITHOUT enacting this restrictive, competition killing legislation.

We should at least try that first, before committing our economy to yet another government program.

And yes, before you throw it out there, I do hate big government. That does not mitigate my suggestion.

'umm...I am sure no one will believe this but, the bill wont get signed unless it can fund itself.

but, Im sure that's just propaganda"

Please tell me how any bill like this 'funds itself'. It's an impossibility. The only possible thing that can fund a government healthcare plan is taxing the public. This automatically will put the budget for this bill in the negative because with free healthcare people will go see a doctor for anything and everything. This leads to the government countering the increasing costs by rationing healthcare or increasing taxes to keep the cost down or cover the increased unplanned cost (respectively).

I am all for reforming healthcare when it comes to less regulation on what a provider needs to cover. This is the real way to keep costs down. A lot of our current costs are because we are forced to have coverage for things most people will never encounter. This is not the 'evil' insurance companies doings. This is mostly state and federal law mandating that certain coverage must be provided.

"STATUS QUO WATCH.... About a month ago, Bill Moyers sat down with Wendell Potter, a former executive at a major health insurance company, who's become a whistleblower, explaining the way the industry "put profits before patients" and is doing everything possible to block health care reform now.

Asked what prompted his change of heart, Potter said he visited a health care expedition in Wise, Virginia, in July 2007. "I just assumed that it would be, you know, like booths set up and people just getting their blood pressure checked and things like that," he said. "But what I saw were doctors who were set up to provide care in animal stalls. Or they'd erected tents, to care for people.... I've got some pictures of people being treated on gurneys, on rain-soaked pavement. And I saw people lined up, standing in line or sitting in these long, long lines, waiting to get care."

Potter added that families were there from "all over the region" because people had heard, "from word of mouth," about the possibility of being able to see a doctor without insurance. He asked himself, "What country am I in? It just didn't seem to be a possibility that I was in the United States."

What's worth remembering is that this exact same scene keeps playing out, across the country. Reader R.B. sent me this item earlier:

The free medical clinic at the Forum in Inglewood [near Los Angeles] reached capacity again Wednesday, as hundreds camped out overnight to receive medical and dental care. [...]

More than 2,000 sought services on the first day of the medical clinic -- and hundreds were turned away. People were lined up Tuesday night, hoping to get in. The MTA announced it was extending service of Line 115 because of "overwhelming demand" for rides to the clinic, which runs for eight days. [...]

Doctors, nurses and other medical workers who donated their time said most visitors' ailments were basic. But "many have chronic diseases -- high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma -- conditions we can't deal with in just one day," said Dr. Nancy Greep of Santa Monica. Some had problems, such as a recurring cancer, that demand long-term treatment.

"What country am I in? It just didn't seem to be a possibility that I was in the United States."

Remember, in some conservative circles, there's still a belief that health care reform isn't necessary. Last month, one right-wing member of Congress even boasted, "There are no Americans who don't have healthcare. Everybody in this country has access to healthcare."

Here's a thought: head down to Inglewood and let folks know about this. While you're there, let them know that health care reform might lead to "rationing" and "long wait times."
—Steve Benen

You are 100% correct that the President does not author legislation, but you have a President that continues to recite things that are not in the proposed legislation. As he states, "My plan doesn't do X.", however, it is funny how X shows up in the House Bill! He doesn't have line item veto power, so he has to do something now. Lord knows, if the bill makes it to his desk and it is bad, he will sign it into law anyway.

What the President CAN do is READ THE BILL, call Pelosi and Reed to the White House, and say- "I don't like this. This isn't what I want. I am telling the American people this. This is how we will pay for that." Again, leadership means when it hits the fan, you step in and do something to correct it, not try to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people.

The new thing the left is now saying- "You don't have the right copy of the bill. There are 5 copies of the bill. You don't have the right copy."

We are not stupid! This administration has lost all credibility.

There were 2 photos on the front page of the AJC from the town hall. Opposition to the plan had handwritten and homemade signs on cardboard. Supporting the plan were professional signs (only 2 kinds). So which side is "astroturf"?

The essential flaw in your argument is that you assume competition will remain once the government gets in the picture. Unlike the USPS which must operate on the funds it charges for its services, the same will not be true for government run health insurance. It can and will operate at a loss. Initially, if the government plan allows consumers to keep their private insurance and purchase private insurance policies after their plan goes into effect, the coverage by the government plan will be very similar to private plans, but cheaper.
No profit oriented entity can compete with that.
The quality, innovation, etc. tanks after the private companies close their doors. What do you think the quality of Coke would be if they had no competition?
We desperately need health care reform, but we don't need government provided health insurance.

groupies are all the same - dumb women looking to score. ignore or partake at your leisure.

I am sure Phil is having his in rome at 3pm to attract hard working conservatives.

So, out of work people are liberal? nice.

too bad they dont have common sense classes. you could use one

LOL!

"people will always go for cheap"

Then why do we have Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Gatorade..? Those drinks are completely unnecessary when the government provides water nearly for free. Why drink anything but water? Well, these other beverages offer something more than water can offer; flavors, electrolytes, less mercury...

If Insurance companies can make a product superior to what the government offers, they will retain customers and continue to make a profit. If they continue to deny claims in order to fund their investors, they'll be producing an inferior product and will either need to evolve or die.

No, I'm not a leftie, I'm a secular fiscal conservative; a "Common Sense-ist." But, we've seen the private sector trump the government's services repeatedly through our history, I don't think healthcare would be an exception and the argument that government would put private coverage out of business seems to be a weak one, and I think there are better points to make against any additional government spending.

Anyone wanna bet these two are one and the same? That or they're both smokin' the same shite..

Yeah, SURE it's "conservative" unemployed folks showing up for Obama's parades...exactly the kind up folks that support capitalism and less government interference in the economy.

Go take an economics class.

Interested to see a discussion on this comparison – Bottled water companies seem to be doing quite well despite the government providing drinking water to the public through municipal utilities. Is it so impossible to think that insurance companies will not have a following if they provide a better product than what the government puts together?

Also, I’m not in support of government healthcare, in fact I’d like to see Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security repealed, our defense budget cut by half, the Fair Tax enacted, our debt paid down (with us actually growing the value of our treasury, like those wacky Chinese are doing), but I have to come to grips with reality and in a modern society like ours, people have certain expectations, and one of those is that you shouldn’t be forced into a shorter or limited life simply because you don’t have the means to pay for treatment. For the moment, I’m fortunate to not one of those who need government assistance in any manner, but you never know what curve balls life may throw at you…

I'm not singing the praises of Obama, just trying to put a fair perspective on things, and I think Neal was a little off on this one...

right, only reply to people whose views are surprising and informative on these boards.



yeah, thought so

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It's the Post Office that's always having problems"

That is one thing he got right. Unfortunately, the President is ignoring the impact that the USPS failure has on the rest of the market and to consumers.

Private companies like UPS and FedEx provide superior service, often at a lower price, despite the USPS having a government supported monopoly on mail delivery. Laws prohibit anyone but the USPS from delivering items to the millions of mailboxes at consumers homes around the country. This regulation effectively prohibits private companies like UPS and FedEx from competing with the government on letter delivery and forces consumers to pay the constantly increasing USPS letter rate with no other options. Given the opportunity, private competitors would likely improve letter delivery service and provide it at a lower rate, just as they did with package delivery. Despite the government upheld monopoly, private companies do compete on package delivery. While the USPS already has the infrastructure in place to handle package delivery, they do such a poor job of it that private competitors thrive.

What is the impact of this situation on consumers? Higher prices and fewer choices. Private companies like UPS and FedEx face higher delivery costs than they would if they were able to take advantage of the infrastructure savings associated with letter delivery. These premiums are passed on to consumers, yet UPS and FedEx rates are still competitive with those of USPS because of the amount of waste in the government supported system. New competitors find it too costly to enter the market because of the restrictions on mail delivery, meaning most Americans are stuck with just 3 options instead of the many that would be available under a truly free system.

The Post Office is notorious for its long lines, poor customer service, and inability to meet its commitments. The limited number of alternatives that have emerged are overpriced due to the government interference into the free market. Is this really a situation that we want recreate with health care?

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116596693770

If the ONE says it, it MUST be true! Ignore all other evidence and proof to the contrary..that is merely the smear machine!

I'm ashamed to admit I use the post office for international shipments every week. To most parts of Europe, if a package weighs less than 4 lbs, it costs me $18.00. UPS and Fedex charge about $150.00 for that same package. Basically, the Post Office is using its bottomless pit of taxpayer dollars to stifle UPS and Fedex.

Am I a leech? You could say that, or you could see it from my point of view; I'm getting a reach-around.

All we needed was a special guest appearance by 'Obama Girl'. Yeah, I would get positive feedback if I screened everyone who sat in front of me listening to what I had to say. If he has the cojones to get out in public, why not allow some dissenting( yet respectful...)points of view in the room and take the issue head on? Did anyone see large containers of Koolaid in the background? Norman Rockwell( may he rest in peace...) should be around to paint this one, it's epic!

You're cute. LoL

if the truth was a life supporting item.......osamabama would be one dead halfrician......

The phrase above is meant to be read as "are not allowed to compete", because by law the USPS, as a Government-controlled entity, has a monopoly on first-class mail delivery. It should not be read as "are unable to compete." They clearly beat the pants off the USPS in the realms (parcel delivery, etc.) they are permitted to operate in.

I love it.

Govt cant run healthcare it would be horrible.

Govt would run private sector out of business.

You should have that second mouth looked at. It's out of control!

If I was at that meeting, I would have asked President Obama the following quesation. You have rejected tort reform
as a component of any legislation concerning reform of our health care system but yet you and your party continues to accept massive amounts of money from lawyers and lawyer PACs.

The following figures come from OpenSecrets.org Center for Responsive Politics:

2008 total Contributions
$233,883,007

% to Democrats
76%

$ to Democrats
178,690,393

For the up coming 2010 election cycle the Democrats are getting an even larger
percentage 84% of the money from lawyers and lawyer PACs.

did anyone catch the sign language lady? she was much funnier than anything said. obama or someone would say four paragraphs worth of speech, and the lady would make 2 hand motions. reminds me of the snl episode where will ferrel as castro said 2 minutes of speech in spanish, and the translator responds with "yes." i couldn't help but laugh at that.

...of how our government runs a business. Here are a few things that it deals with.

1. Because of forced salary levels (due to postal worker unions) the price of a stamp has increased 11 cents in the last 9 years. That is higher than any past decade. Also the UPWU was created in 1970. Every decade since it's creation stamp prices have gone up from 8-11 cents as opposed to the 1-2 cent increases in all previous decades.

2. Because of rapidly increasing costs of postage people are seeking alternative methods of sending mail (i.e. email, texting, etc.)

3. As pointed out the areas the USPS actually does compete with UPS and FedEx, it performs miserably compared to the services run by the private sector, even if it does offer a cheaper rate.

Again this is just another perfect example of why we don't want to put our healthcare into the hands of the government, so thank you mr. president for shining a light on the USPS.

The post office is government run. Unfortunately, so many of the government educated do not believe that....so the argument that health care will turn out like the post office falls into "deaf" brains that cannot reason.

Was beating the pants off the USPS with his American Letter Mail Company until the Federal government shut him down, because he succeeded in driving down the cost of postage. Currently the USPS has no competition.

The Federal government has also succeeded in increasing school tuition through subsidized loans, so why do we want them screwing up our health insurance? Even IF private health insurance manages to compete with them they will just make a law to drive them out of business like they did with Lysander Spooner

Might want to rethink that particular talking point, Mr. President.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XTi-WdOu2s

1. Why don't you simply open the government employee group to any US citizen, require everyone to have some sort of catastrophic coverage and then entertain a welfare bill to handle those having difficulty paying?

2. Would you trust the health-care system you envision to George Bush, or Woodrow Wilson? There will be a new president someday.

It's quite obvious that the Obama brown shirts have given explicit instructions to CNN not to air dissenting opinions. This should erase any lingering doubts about the complicity between CNN and the Obama brown shirts. Whatever happened to the premise of objective reporting?

It's funny that FedEx and UPS cannot compete with the U.S. Postal System. They charge at least five times what the postal system charges for a compatible package. Yet FedEx and UPS turns a tidy profit, while the postal system is unable to do so.

Maybe one cost saving measure would be to cut mail delivery to 3 times a week. I, for one, don't care if my bills are delivered every second day, instead of every day.

First, I will preface by stating I do not support the government health plan. With this in mind, why is it such a surprise there are plants at a presidential townhall meeting? Do the people actually believe this has not happened with both parties in the past?

If there was any doubt about the pre-screened pre-approved crowd who greeted Odumma yesterday, it was removed by the "YES WE CAN" chant they broke into. I almost felt SORRY for him. I mean....how lame.
Odumma's crew seems to think the answer to all presidential struggles lies in wrapping Odumma in the warmth of the campaign trail; get him in front of his sheeple, the polls are down!
This administration is a train that's just speeding faster and faster down the mountain, and the engineer is on crack.

Prezbo's never ending Hollywood production goes to New England. What a surprise!