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What others are saying
the IRS.
in one of neals fairtax books he tells a story of a man whom made an honest mistake on his tax return or should i say his paid tax professional made a mistake on the return.much like timothy geitner..and a few other powers that be within our system the only difference being that with interest and penalties the mistake cost him more money than he made from the overall investment return it eventually ended up driving the man to suicide.they basically laid claim to everything the man worked for.I never thought I would personally experience anything like this until a few weeks ago i recieved a phone call that one of my friends whom i grew up with had problems with the irs a dispute in his returns he was a contractor whom often subcontracted work it seems one of his employers decided to not file proper paperwork..well one thing led to another and the IRS ended up seizing basically everything he had and laid claim to roughly 70% of his weekly earnings.with kids to feed and bills to pay he hired a company to help settle only to find that the company basically was able to accomplish zero..he felt his kids would probably be better off being taken care of by the state and that all his lifes work was basically for nothing.you have to understand we have politicians delivering immigrants here by the droves giving them a free ride 24/7 365 a year and heres this man whom worked all his life for what.? a chance to have his check properly redistributed to a class of people whom were not even usa citizens..well that phone call was to tell me that he had shot himself in the head and was pronounced doa at a local hospital.his letter was quite clear..RIP Eric..B
Post it to the board for all to hear
Neal, post this as a link that anyone can download and listen too. For those who oppose it, making them subscribe to your newsletter, is just another reason for them not to listen to what you've got to say. Post it here so all can hear without any strings.
Sagacity
Wow, you speak as if you have a better plan.
Take 3!
The FraudTax...
Moves around wealth theft...
Moves around theft disincentives...
Allows politicans to adjust welfare checks...("Moves around theft disincentives")
The main Harvard economist, founder of this "idea"(who supports tax-and-trade)wrote to the new republic, saying the study “The Economic Impact of the National Retail Sales Tax” "one of the reasons for the price drop at the producer level was the elimination of the tax on wages paid to workers." So workers would not get the difference...
READ Laurence M. Vance
My Advice
I'm convinced these boards are essentially breeding grounds for intellectual incest.
These people are basically lock-stepped with Boortz.
As INFORMED critics, we are wasting our time & efforts here. We're doing little more than keeping a hoard of committed idiots inflamed.
I propose we leave these boards & leave the Boortz myrmidons to themselves.
In absence of critics (who they will never agree with until it's too late) maybe the fire will die out.
If not, they will deliver us from the evil of the IRS only to drop us into the evil of the "Fair" Tax.
This is my final post for now (& I'm sure the Boortz minions will not be disappointed). I hope the rest of you follow.
However, when (& if) this "Fair" Tax foolishness (as currently proposed) passes, I'll be back to chastise the living fool out of them when it blows up in our faces.
Yes, REALLY
Read my entire comment again, please.
IN SPITE OF THE FACT... THE IRS IS A JOKE...
...the "Fair" Tax, as it stands, is INDEED no significant improvement over the current system AND is INDEED riddled with pitfalls.
REALLY!!! ABSO-TOODLE-OOTLY!!!
Read H.R. 25 in it's entirety & you'll see...
Oh, sorry. You couldn't even read 5 short paragraphs & understand them.
Let me try putting it this way:
The "Fair" Tax is tantamount to a wage-earner (who makes $40,000 dollars a year, & who--with a family of spoiled brats--lives well beyond his means) going to his boss & asking for a pay cut so he can get his family's finances in order.
ASIDE FROM THE NUMEROUS PROBLEMS WITH THE "FAIR" TAX PROPOSAL:
By reducing the revenue stream of an undisciplined government, it will turn its country's currency into a fiat currency even faster than it would otherwise.
It makes no difference whether we have "more control" over "our own money" if our government, by virtue of poor fundamentals [read: chronic over-spending, lack of fiscal discipline], renders that money worthless.
I'm convinced you "Fair" Taxers are chronically myopic & terminally stupid.
audit the fed..
that will never in a trillion years happen...abolish the 16th then well talk fairtax..as far as im concerned they have obviously already confinscated enough of our money...period...
Ron Paul and Roswell, NM
While I like some of Ron Paul's notions that we should stick to our Constitutional mandates in this country, it's just too hard to take him seriously when every time I see a Ron Paul for President Sticker on a 1984 Toyota, it is sitting next to a "9/11 was an Inside Job" banner.
No thanks.
Summation of the Situation
Our nation has been drowning in its own debt for decades and all that's been done is that the Republicans described the water, while the Democrats have turned the hoses on us and hoped for rain.
Re: rhurc
rhurc, if The People had been holding their politicians accountable all along for their voting records on tax policy, we wouldn't have the mess we have today. There is no reason to expect any better under the Fair Tax. It is a delusion. A false hope fed by the power hungry to the desparate to convince them that changing the source of revenue will make any meaningful difference. It won't.
It will be extremely trivial for Congress to play the wealth envy game with the Fair Tax. Private jets? An extra 50% tax, please. Jewelry costing more than $100? Let's set that to a 75% tax rate! It's easy to fancy innumerable such "luxury" tax rates under the Fair Tax. And since these would only affect "the rich", such increases would pass easily. Then once such special exceptions are carved out, it wouldn't be hard at all to bury as a rider to other important bills changes to the threshholds or tax rates. Private jets today, all small aircraft tomorrow, even if it costs $20 thousand rather than $20 million. Expensive jewerly today, ALL jewelry tomorrow. By being inserted as riders into other bills, such changes will pass through completely unnoticed. And even where they are noticed, the bill they are attached to will be deemed too important to not pass on account of such riders. This isn't mere conjecture, this is how Congress actually operates today with all manner of bills.
All the promises that the Fair Tax is immune to social engineering are patently false. ALL tax systems are easily used to whatever social end the government desires. No exceptions.
People are so desparate for ANY change at all that they are prepared to swallow any lie no matter how big. Meanwhile, the REAL problem of egregious overspending continues unabated. Congress feels absolutely no obligation to limit spending to anything approximating expected revenues. They have not felt constrained for some years now, and never will again. Forget about how we are taxes, focus your efforts on how much we spend. Fix the spending problem and the funding problem will take care of itself.
And no, the Fair Tax will not bring us any more freedom or any less burden. Income still has to be tracked and reported, which means all the same shackles and burdens. Some lucky folks even get to pay or withhold income tax under the Fair Tax! Congratulations!
government power
I would suggest the biggest benefit to the Fair Tax is that it removes the power of the Federal Government to reward or punish certain groups and industries. Instead of debating who to steal money from and engaging in class warfare tactics to push their agendas, congress will have to honestly debate the merits of any tax hike to the American people as a whole to get them to buy off on it. This is about bringing accountability into government and providing a level playing field for all people.
Unamerican extremist speaks out
Neil, I'm posting this comment as a caution against your continued derogatory remarks regarding so-called 'birthers' & 'truthers'. I commented after your last rant that I wouldn't be back, but followed a link the other day to your post about the fallen soldier's family on the plane; I then commented that you redeemed yourself.
However, in light of the focus on what constitutes being a citizen in regards to critiquing the status quo, I would recommend you keep your comments to yourself lest you unwittingly create a movement that will kill any hope of tax reform with any modicum of resemblance to the Fair Tax.
Judgment day is coming (financially) and I would suggest you focus on the unsustainable/unrestricted spending by this administration and the taxes that will be required to support it. Tax reform will be a natural progression in the next 'regime' to replace this administration.
Please don't damage the conservative movement or your own credibility by disparaging those that simply want to know the truth about the man at the top of this pyramid scheme.
Keep in mind
That Ron Paul and almost 300 co-sponsors are pushing to get the Fed audited (HR1207). I think any real push for FairTax is waiting on the results of that audit. Depending on what they find, ooo baby all hell could break loose!
Reduce Spending not change the code?
The comment that we need to reduce spending not change the code is half right. Spending is the reason for the debt, however, the tax code makes us less free. The current tax code is as much a behavior modifier as a revenue builder. The Fair tax is not about a balanced budget that must be done on the spending level. It is about the power we give to our Federal Government to control our behavior via the tax code.
Sagacity
"also know the “Fair” Tax, as it stands, offers no significant improvement & is riddled with pitfalls.."
Really??? No significant improvement over the current system??? Really??
Riddled with pitfalls??? And the current system isn't skewed in favor of government cronies???
TAKE 2!
@ The Count
That is one FANTASTIC POINT.
I'd also note that Clinton had absolutely no idea that annual budget deficits would (or even could) be eliminated. In speech after speech, he would always give a time horizon for when "he thought" annual budgets would be balanced. He (& his own Budget Office) is on the record early in his first term that it was not foreseeable that the budget would (or even could) ever be balanced (in spite of a massive TAX RATE HIKE); as time progressed--& Republicans took control of Congress--he would assert that the budget could be balanced in [insert random number here that would put the time of the balanced budget after his administration] years.
The REPUBLICAN CONGRESS managed to balance the annual budget in FOUR years--& they didn't do it by spending reductions; they did it by simply restraining spending increases (most notably Clinton's bloated social proposals, which were VERY modest by Obama/Pelosi/Reid "Stimulus" & "Health Care" standards).
The budget surplus at the end of the Clinton administration was an absolute shock to Democrats.
"Fair" Taxers, you need to realize that politicians give no consideration to revenue when they propose spending bills (never mind the fact the "Fair" Tax, as proposed, is a panacea).
Well said, THE COUNT. Well said indeed.
the necessity of the Fair Tax?
Don't take my word for it, go look at the numbers yourself from the GPO.
If we were able to reduce spending back to where it was under Bill Clinton's last budget, which was a time when lefties like claim everything was so stupendously wonderful, especially economically speaking, if we went back to that budget, we could completely eliminate all income taxes, replace them with nothing at all, and still have a surplus besides.
The problem is NOT how the government is funded, the problem is how much the government is spending. Swapping out one revenue stream for another, where the new one is intended to be revenue neutral, utterly fails to address this fundamental underlying problem.
If the Fair Taxers were to put as much time, effort and money into getting the feds to reduce spending as they did trying to foist this new tax scam on us, we might just possibly have seen real results by now.
That is, to me, the single most discouraging thing about the whole Fair Tax nonsense.
Where's the link
Where's the link to listen to the Fair Tax special?
I love the Mises Institute - lots of good information there. However, Laurence Vance's articles are against the Fair Tax and all taxes in favor of smaller government which I think is something all FT supporters are in favor of. However, he never offers any alternatives that would be better than the FT or the current system, he just complains about taxes. So, let's work to get the FT enacted, then people will really know what they're paying in taxes, then we would have a better chance of reducing the size of government.
"Fair" Tax 5150
There are three potential reasons the “Fair” Tax proponents are not engaging in a media blitz right now.
(I) They are building a war chest to circumvent the unconstitutional McCain-Feingold Act in 2012 (or some major election cycle thereafter). I have every expectation of there being a presidential candidate in the near future who makes the “Fair” Tax the key plank in his or her platform. By running issue ads at the same time that same candidate is running campaign ads, it’s going to work out very nicely for whoever that candidate may be. The result will be a “Soros” effect with “exempt issue advocacy groups” pumping out wads of campaign cash--except it won’t be working out so well for Democrats this time around.
If the “Fair” Tax advocates mount that charge now & exhaust their funds before the next major campaign cycle in which they believe they will have enough resources to wage a successful campaign, the citizens of USADD will forget by November, & the big push will have been much ado about nothing.
(II) When the “Fair” Tax proponents finally charge, there is going to be significant opposition from several fronts: (1) Ideological Yellow-Dog Leftists who are so entrenched in their false beliefs they will dismiss it outright without consideration; (2) Leftists & Moderates who won’t be able to understand the proposal; & (3) Moderates, Conservatives, & Libertarians who are smart enough to understand the proposal & see both the shortcomings & the “unintended consequences” that advocates gloss over. “Fair” Taxers have some major issues they need to work out in the proposal (this is my hope, but I’m not optimistic), or they will lose a good number of Conservatives & Libertarians who, in spite of the fact they know the IRS is a joke, also know the “Fair” Tax, as it stands, offers no significant improvement & is riddled with pitfalls..
(III) The “Fair” Tax has been a sham all along--a political football to be exploited by politicians, & a marketing gimmick to be exploited by talking heads.
Google...
Laurence M. Vance Mises Institute
fairtax 101
Neal, your show on the fairtax was great.
Question for you however, Why do fairtax advocates like fairtax.org not buy TV timeat electioin time and turn people onto this idea? I recently turned a buddy onto the fairtax and it completely changed his political alignment.
I have not donated because I feel that if they're not going to get some prime time TV spots to compete with the messiah, then we're just ***ing in the wind with lofty ambitions so to speak.
Obama
Yeah, he was obviously introducing the delegation. It was also obvious that he was not checking out that chicks booty a few weeks ago. It is also obvious that he does not have any intention of achieving single payer. It is quite obvious that he, excuse me He, is the Second Coming.
Handshake snub
Actually, it looks like Obama is introducing the members by putting out his hand, not intending to shake.
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