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Today's Nuze

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Nobody's listening.

COME ON! TELL ME AMERICANS AREN'T THIS IGNORANT!

By
Neal Boortz
@ August 5, 2009 8:24 AM
Permalink | Comments (112) | TrackBacks (0)

This is so completely lame. Just another indication of how stupid the politicians in Washington think you are. I'm talking about the White House response to those video clips that evil, mean, racist, bigoted, ugly, hairless (speak for yourself, Boortz) radio talk show hosts have been playing on the air.

OK ... definition first. We have to be clear on the definition of the term "single payer." This means that there's one entity that writes the checks for all health care services. Prescription drugs, doctor visits, hospital stays ... one person writes the checks. Now of course that one person will be the government. Now I suppose you could have a situation where that one person would be one insurance company ... but it would be an insurance company selected by the government and, of course, controlled by the government. Hopefully you can see if the "single payer" is the government, then the government decides what gets paid for and what does not. This means the government gets to determine the extent of your access to health care, prescription drugs, etc. "Single payer" sounds innocuous enough, but it is merely a euphemism for "government."

Now the current debate is whether or not Obama and the looters are taking us to a single payer plan .. a plan where government makes all the decisions as to who gets paid how much for what medical-related service. Those video clips you heard on the show earlier this week were pretty plain. We had Obama speaking to the AFL-CIO in 2003 saying "Single payer health care plan - universal health care -- that is what I would like to see." He also says "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care plan." He follows up with "but first we gotta take back the White House, we gotta take back the Senate, and we gotta take back the House of Representatives." The language is pretty clear. There's no "taking out of context" stuff here. Listen to the clip and see for yourself. We also played clips from such luminaries as Slobbering Barney Frank making it absolutely clear that single payer - government payer - government control is what we are after here. Remember .. if all payments for health care come from the government ... the single payer ... where are the private health insurance companies? Gone! That's where.

So .. the people don't like what they're hearing, and the White House reacts. They pull out ABC retread Linda Douglass ... now in charge of White House propaganda for health care ... to do a little three-minute video trying to convince us that Barack Obama is not for a single payer plan. He's actually in favor of health insurance reform! You can watch Linda Douglass' White House video here or right below. She plays a couple of clips - recent clips - from Obama where he promises that you can keep your health insurance if you like it. Nowhere does she address Obama's previous dedication to a single payer plan. Nowhere does she mention that once there is any change, no matter how minute, in your private plan you must drop that plan and head to the government plan. This is a lady who has sold her soul to the cause of socialized medicine. Pretty much what you would expect from a network news hack.



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What others are saying

  • rechilling
    Amen!
  • I am reminded of a poem...
    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn't a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.
  • many - dolts
    LOL, please spare the "this is not govt's role" junk. Truly.

    One of two things is true - either your elected representative is doing his duty and our system is working or you're not doing your by sitting here and commenting instead of taking up arms or at least seeking legal action against your rep for unconstitutional actions.

    Either way, what you're doing here is just pure whining and pablum.

    good job!
  • honeybee is an idiot
    The VA and Medicare have been running great for years? These are systems that have never ran well. Both have been money pits that are unsustainable. Your idea of breaking is to cut spending where there is no money to spend. Money doesn't grow on trees and you can't just print it at will with no consequences. The Obama blame game is getting old quickly. Most people been awakened by the lying coming from the White House. Obama is working on borrowed time now. January 2011 is when he will become irrelevant. I will bet you your government checks that he goes down as the worst president in the history of this country. At least that way I can recover some of my stolen money.
  • suggestion re personal attacks
    Neal, I am one of those who don't catch your show and see only this website. I don't watch network news and never heard of Linda Douglas. To me, your deprecation of her sounds like what liberals said about Tony Snow when he worked for the Bush administration.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you have a rant against an individual, maybe the Web Wench can archive that rant and link to it in posts concerning that individual?

    Such a quick link might actually help you while you're on the air.
  • @Copyleft re: Rationing
    Rationing is not already happening. IF your insurance denies coverage on a procedure, YOU CAN STILL GO OUT AND HAVE THE PROCEDURE DONE AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. Under the proposed "gov't option" you can not do the same.

    Do not say insurance companies are rationing. A denial in coverage does not mean you can not go out and have a procedure!!!
  • re: suddencall @ 15:42:08
    "I['ve] been watching the last twenty years and no insurance claim whether it be auto, health, or home ownners has ever paid a claim in full. Not one. We pay our premiums in full but when we have a loss then its take what they offer or else."

    Just for your records, you can change your "Not one." to a ONE now. Regarding auto insurance, I was in an accident, which was my fault. Damage was done to the front and rear of my car. The insurance company sent me to a body shop, which quoted the ACTUAL repair cost, and then the Insurance cut me a check for that exact amount, minus my $100 deductable. The damage was $3000, so I got $2900. Since my car was 8 years old, and had 245,000 miles on it, the Kelly blue book value was $2200 - $2600. Fixing a car "up like new" by spending more than it was worth, didn't seem very wise to me. I then took my $2900 and put it towards a new car.
    What's this got to do with the current debate? Well, as you can see, it makes you guilty of telling an untruth, but speaking in "never"s and "always"s is an unwise thing to do. Just makes it easy to prove one wrong. I will tell everyone that I use Allstate insurance, because they are the best in existence. They are a PRIVATE supplier of insurance that you liberals love to demonize. They are a huge CORPORATION, that you socialists love to hate. And yes, they make a TON of money, I'm sure. *Capitalism* is the system that makes sure that the ones with the best product or service are the most successful. Only the governments power of the gun can force a change in this. And you want them in charge of everything.
    You are ignorant wretches, and I pity you.
    I'll go ahead and throw this out there, cause it's true:
    Liberals/progressives/socialists are fine with businesses making a profit, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT SOMETHINGS ANYBODY NEEDS. Why is that? You can sell gas and make profits, and long as it's only for people's boats and recreational vehicles. But if someone needs that gas to get to work, it's: "D@MN you, you evil corporations!!!"
    What's up with that?
  • Single Payor
    Does Single Payor mean the government will build our future hospitals, clinics, doctors offices, etc. Can't wait to see the tax payers expense to build facilities!
  • RE: Suddencall
    Name one person in the US that was reasonably ever denied healthcare?

    Would Ted Kennedy ever have received cancer treatment under this new plan, or would they have given him pain pill options to make him comfortable until he died?

    Why can't the government cover catastrophic health coverage for all (legal) Americans? (That takes that 36 Million uninsured number and knocks it down to 36 million BTW)?

    With a catastrophic policy through my employer, I can save big bucks on insurance. Played right, I place that money into either A. An HSA or B. a savings account where I earn interest. Then I pay for my normal visits out of pocket. If I don't use it- I save more!

    Screw this prepaid fraud and that which is being perpetuated by the US Government! It is a death sentence of underfunded, mediocrity.
  • 1984
    As is usual the reality has been lost by several comments. Our new "change you can believe in" government wants Americans to spy on Americans and report anyone that disagrees with them. Can you say communism? Forget the fact that our great wonderful imperial government can only do one thing really well - create a power system for themselves that eclipses anything we have ever seen. Healthcare & retirement just for their own that they would never give up to have our system. Basically don't disagreed with our great newly crowned king or you will be spied, called names, and threatened. "Change we can believe in" nothing like a real aggressive union drive with no rules.
  • Government Profitability
    Copyleft wrote:"You missed the point. I'll clarify for you:

    Healthcare isn't SUPPOSED to be profitable. Neither is government. Running either of these "like a business" would be a very, very stupid idea, as our last "CEO President" amply demonstrated."

    It's funny you say this, but I can recall quite a few instances in the last half a year where both our current president and members of Congress have talked about being just that. Profitable by running businesses better than they did on their own.

    All I can say is before you are truly in favor of a single payer system, go live in Canada or England at post 70 and with an expensive medical treatment that you need in a timely manner to stay alive. Typical leftests aren't concerned about other people's lives though unless it affects their own.
  • why does lesh and his friends hate america so much?
    why?
  • Snarkybird
    "legal system is provided by tax dollars" to some extent that is true...but then is must be provided for since it is a Constitutional right under the 4th through 8th Amendments. Healthcare is not.
  • rejoyce
    I do have one other reason for being here but, you wouldn't believe me if I told you. So, I'm keeping that one to myself.
  • Snarkybird
    I would love to see the Government actually run a "for profit" or minimal profit healthcare commodity; working under the same rules as the other private/for profit providers. I currently have GPHC (government provided healthcare) as a military retiree. I pay small premiums and so long as I am within 60 miles of a VA or military hospital, I have full access to healthcare (I only had to wait nearly 90 days for an MRI for a service related injury). If the government could run open clinics, primary care and indigent care clinics at a small profit or zero balance, that would be a viable alternative to taking tax dollars to subsidize GPHC, undercutting the private market until private provisioners fold up their tents, that is folly...unfortuneately that is Obamas plan. If GPHC could be made to operate even with minimal profit incentive, many would flock to it; leaving the rest of the private healthcare alone. But it is not about what is "fair" but is about control and government dependance.
  • National Health Care
    To Copyleft and similar posters:

    Leave out the assertions that government-managed anything doesn't work, nationalized health care has pretty much failed in all cases where it has been tried, such a program will cost exponentially more than even the $1T projected by proponents and mortgage the future of our children and grandchildren, lead to rationed care, disuade bright people from going into the medical profession, and generally degrade the quality of health care (assertions with which I agree). Redistribution of wealth is not a proper function of government regardless of the rationale offered or the form in which it is distributed (including provision of health care). Health care is not a right and no individual should be bound to provide any of his/her resources to support the life of another. If one wishes of his/her own free will to contribute to support of another, that is properly seen as a good and decent thing and something to which we should all aspire. However, for the government to demand such actions under penalty of law is extortion. By the way,the prohibition against redistribution of wealth should also apply to giving taxpayer money to organizations whose poor management,lack of foresight and failure to manage the risks of their business have led them to the brink of bankruptcy. It applies as well to giving taxpayer dollars to artists who cannot survive in a free-market economy.

    Abraham Lincoln said, "You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should be doing for themselves." I agree.
  • weird - rejoyce and others
    whenever I make a point that directly and accurately contradicts you, I get questions about why I'm here or accused of being a paid plant...or just get called names. very odd responses for this supposedly "intelligent" board of commentators that I'd never get away with my "stupid sh**" on as it's called. So odd indeed...

    Why am I here? Why are you here? - did you want an echo chamber? I know you didn't want thoughtful dialogue with like minded people because, I've seen who else hangs out here...jeff, Ivan, club, you, rex, cowboy, turbo.... You think because you believe something that its right (no pun intended) and cheer on the GOP until you get called to the mat and then its "oh, whoa, whoa, hey...we're libertarians"...like you're part of some book club. LOL! calling yourselves libertarians makes you more fringe and crazier than almost every other organized group out there. And you use it for cover against slams on the GOP...

    I mean, this is truly comical.

    I've already told you why I'm here...but as usual, you don't pay attention. You asked me this already and I told you. look it up.
  • Suddencall
    "No body wants to listen to their scheemes and lies."

    (hmmm govt schooling showing there)

    Sudden, only lying going on is from Washington.
  • Copyleft
    "Healthcare isn't SUPPOSED to be profitable."

    Says who???? Did you know that over the course of the first four years of a medical career, the physician invests nearly one half million dollars and during internships and residency nearly a quarter million more. Where do you get off saying that the person who invests that amount of money and time is not deserving of equitable compensation? Your arrogance is astounding.
  • healthcare
    More "Newspeak" from the Ministry of Truth.

    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • honeybee
    Health care is a must have not a maybe you can.We need to know what is going to get paid befor it happens not after.
    We do not want republican input that is why we voted them out in the last election.No body wants to listen to their scheemes and lies.
  • Copyleft
    Where did you get the bizarre notion that healthcare should NOT be a for-profit enterprise? If I invest my time and money to provide a needed service that is in high demand, guess what...I am doing it to make a good living. Altruism has its personal rewards, but practicing any profession without some sort of a profit motive is called Socialism. Where do liberals get the notion that they should decide what is altruistic and what is allowed for personal gain.
  • rethedoctor
    hey, didnt want to leave you out - thanks for making obama's point too.

    govt run system and for profit can exist side by side and provide service.

    thank you, too, for playin!
  • honeybee
    I despute the speak about the government can not run anything.The only time there is a problem is when republicans get control.
    The government run veterans health plan has been working fine ever sense world war two and Medicare has been working fine for forty years except when republicans get control.then nothing works right because republicans are more concerned with destroying than they are building,and man do they ever hate to have to pay their fair share.
  • reted
    you said "You're in the minority guys."

    really. because that just smacks of a complete lack of awareness on both the issue of healthcare and the electorate in this past election.

    both of which clearly have majorities in favor of Obama and in favor of changes to healthcare.

    I like the sun. you should get out and enjoy it more.
  • Answer a question snark
    What is your purpose for being here? What do you hope to accomplish?
  • rejoyce
    you said "He actually thinks his employer will increase his pay if employer is no longer subsidizing his health care.

    Good luck with that."

    ? I recall saying my company and I pay a lot for it. I dont recall saying I'd get all that money back. Chances are I get about as much as I'm paying. My employer picks up the larger tab so, why would I expect to get that? But, sure would be good for my company.

    weird how you call me ignorant and you cant even read what I write effectively.

    probably better that you just ignore. you're just getting in the way anyway.
  • honeybee
    Obamas right .The others have had years to get it right and did they Hell no they just keep lying and robbing people blind.So out with the old crooks and in with the new.I been watching the last twenty years and no insurance claim whether it be auto, health, or home ownners has ever paid a claim in full. Not one. We pay our premiums in full but when we have a loss then its take what they offer or else.Its time to junk these crooks and get something that works right.We should not have to put up with this crap,not now , not ever.
  • wow
    two things, one - Ivan, calling me a paid plant, here to subvert your comments requires two things - the willingness to suspend reality and something worth subverting. try harder please. but I'll gladly take donations.

    the law for profit - joyce (and others) weirdly you're making my and other's point. Obama's too. legal system is provided by tax dollars. but wow, look....lawyers get paid big bucks to be BETTER than what the govt provides for that service. does the govt still provide it, yes. Did it crowd out other lawyer providers? nope. sure, the system is govt run and funded but, parts of it are still private and specialized. but that could never happen anywhere else.

    thanks for playing!
  • Health Care and profits
    "Healthcare isn't SUPPOSED to be profitable."

    It isn't? So what's the incentive to provide it, if you can't profit from it? Is health care exempt from the laws of economics? Or are you one of those "profit is evil" Marxists? Do you even understand the basics of economics?
  • Snark is hopeless
    He actually thinks his employer will increase his pay if employer is no longer subsidizing his health care.

    Good luck with that.

    And yes, I would rather work with a for-profit group than the government option.

    Did you just totally ignore the baby boomers? They are getting older every day, they will break the system, or you're buddy's plan will make them all go into "counseling", yeah that'll work.

    People like you and copygirl are ruining this country with your entitlement approach to everything.

    You haven't proven one single point so enjoy yourself, going back to ignoring your ignorance.
  • rejeff
    LOL - yes, when things dont go your way, people are stupid.

    brilliant!
  • to: Rex
    You missed the point. I'll clarify for you:

    Healthcare isn't SUPPOSED to be profitable. Neither is government. Running either of these "like a business" would be a very, very stupid idea, as our last "CEO President" amply demonstrated.
  • I guess the answer to this question is Yes
    After all, look at what we have to work with in Washington!
  • re: Copy
    "With a for-profit system, insurers make money by denying (i.e., "rationing") your care. And doctors make money by prescribing uneeded treatments and ordering unnecessay tests. How is that a good thing?"

    ....and I'm still not clear on this, goverment run care will fix this how?

    The point is that I agree on a couple of points. The system does neede to be tweeked in places, but with goverment running the show, talk about problems! They will use this just like they used the tax code and we see how that is working so well in this country.
    It is good that you want everyone to have care, but understand, most of us are not fighting that, we are fighting the pattern of goverment abuse. Once they control this, you (not the wealthy) can start kissing your income goodbye because they will always need more and more money to run it, its for the children! Get the picture?
  • To copyleft
    I'm curious....where did you get the notion that health care should be controlled and provided by the US government?

    The Judicial Branch and National Defense are provided because they uphold and protect the fundamental rights in the constitution. They are legitimate government responsibly. Please refer to the 10th amendment in the Bill of Rights.

    So please explain how medical care is a fundamental right that should be provided by the state!

    Typical liberal who never answers the question but tries to redirect, facts and common sense always seem to stifle left wing socialist.
  • Weapons Grade Irony.
    Waiting for the inevitable deafening silence and scrunched-up frowns as right-wingers try to think.

    And Copyleft posted that after demonstrating a total lack of coherent thought.

    The cognitive dissonance on the left is staggering ti behold.
  • My choices?
    I have full health care through my Employment for myself and my family. I am told I can "keep my current healthcare".

    However, if my healthcare costs $9000.00 anually and these thieves offer my employer this deal that says my employer only has to pay them $750.00, what do you think is going to happen?

    By no choice of my own, I will be forced into this healthcare plan.

    Where are my choices? I don't get to choose now! How in the hell am I going to choose then!?!!?!?

    To Copyleft and Snarky:

    You two REALLY need to quit being so narrow minded. Seriously. The senseless banter you guys spew across this site is beyond normal comprehension.

    You're in the minority guys. You think you've got it all figured out (much like this administration), but in the end, you will all be exposed for the frauds that you are.

    Enjoy your time in the sun. The storm clouds are moving in and you'll be one of the only ones out there that don't have an umbrella.
  • re: Copyleft
    First, let me say that it's good to see your posts again... I need my daily dose of your idiocy. Second, have you ever heard of binding arbitration or mediation - these firms(private courts) charge for their services, and expect to make a profit. These firms have sprung up(for civil cases, at least) since our government-run courts are slow and inefficient. I could go on, but there has not enough time has passed since the "Big Bang" to refute ALL your idiotic notions.
  • Re: Copy to Todd
    C'mon Copy....you can't actually be serious?? Generally you post good counter arguments but that was weak dude.

    At the risk of your post being bait....

    First of all our (yes - yours too) Constitution makes provisions for things like an army and our judicial system. It makes no provisions for ANY type of insurance either auto or human related. And because of that car insurance and health insurance and house insurance, etc. companies are allowed to be free enterprises via laws and crap established by the judicial system which, again, our constitution allows for. See? That was neither hard nor eye-brow scrunching.

    As for the the profit side, well....sadly, that's just a function of free enterprise and I would agree that there could be some valid criticism that some companies might be "rationing" (personally I think that's an awfully B-R-O-A-D term) the care they are covering. BUT, let's not forget that there's another part of the equation and that's the company that hires the health care company (that would be the folks you work for). Those folks know what the total amount of one's compensation package costs the company. And they know what the maximum amount is that they're willing to pay for that resource position. So to control costs they decide (I'm sure with the help of some third party health professionals) what things they want covered 'cause let's face it - the more you cover, the higher the premiums. So I can't totaly fault the insurance companies. In many cases they're just carrying out the will of the employer(s). Which, again, is the right they each have in a FREE SOCIETY.

    Doctors order unnecessary tests? You betcha it happens. But that's the effect. If you wanna solve the problem you gotta get to the root cause. Money you say? Close, but still not there. I mean, my Oncologist makes nothing off of sending me to another facility for a scan. I would suggest to you that it is money driven but only to prevent the spending of money on HIS part. You see, if he even THINKS that something might've spread to my lymph nodes, he gonna cover his @ss and send me to the imaging center. Better that then not sending me and having 'ol Tom sue his @ss for not catching something. So yes - it's money driven but only in the context of trying to mitigate liability. It's sad and a crappy way of doing business. But hey, it kinda goes back to that judicial thing that our Constitution allows for. Funny how it works out like that, huh?
  • rebutt
    they just cant take being proven wrong over and over and over...

    but I appreciate their willingness to come back for more... :-) gotta admire that.
  • rejoyce
    LOL

    OK, you and D, together now...scroll down to my first post. Of course they want a single payer system - they've said that all along.

    And Frank is right. You'd never have a shot at one without first showing that a public option works.

    What I love about this is two fold 1)franks doesn't do the Tom Price run of shame when confronted with a questioner...props for that and 2)he's honest.

    So then that leaves a question and your expected response. which is - why are you afraid of what a public option that works might prove? I think Tom is right. Your response - well, the govt can run it without making money, how is that competitive?? that isnt fair to insurance companies.

    I love my HMO and would never switch. I bet I'm not the only one.

    If the govt runs them out of business and ends up removing my employers need or want to provide me the opportunity too purchase insurance, OK. Do you realize how much of my pay goes for that now? it's a lot.

    Secondly - on the fairness arguement - which is more fair, for profit executives deciding who gets health care and who doesn't and how much money they can make on those choices -or- govt run healthcare that expects nothing but coverage and service without thought for profit.

    again - what you're not understanding is rationing ALREADY HAPPENS. It's here. It's real. The only difference is, it's being done in the interests of profit margin now instead of resources available.

    and to put a bow on this - either way - that STILL isnt what Obama said in that video. it WAS edited to say something other than what he meant.
  • Copyleft to Todd: I'm curious
    Should our courts be run as a privatized, profit-making system?

    No, the courts are covered in the constitution.

    Should our armies?

    No, the armies are covered in the constitution.

    Healthcare?

    Yes, NOT covered in the constitution.
  • In the Same Way
    In the same way that the Federal Income Tax was established as a tax "only on the rich" and then expended to be a tax on everyone (but then, of course, is back to being only on the rich), so "health insurance reform" will start out as providing government insurance - only as an option - and eventually put private insurers out of the market - thereby providing "insurance" to all, run by the government - and PAID FOR by the producing class. Really bad idea folks. Don't fall for the bleeding heart "providing health care to the "unfortunate" who wouldn't otherwise have it."
  • Think before you speak Copygirl
    To: Todd
    I'm curious... where did you get the bizarre notion that healthcare should be a for-profit enterprise?

    Should our courts be run as a privatized, profit-making system? Should our armies (see: Blackwater)? Of course not. And neither should healthcare.

    With a for-profit system, insurers make money by denying (i.e., "rationing") your care. And doctors make money by prescribing uneeded treatments and ordering unnecessay tests. How is that a good thing?

    Waiting for the inevitable deafening silence and scrunched-up frowns as right-wingers try to think... they're so cute when the do that!
    By Copyleft

    Where did you get the notion that government should be involved in health care at all? And yes it should be for profit otherwise there is no reason for people to study to be doctors, no reason for drug companies to research new life saving formulas, no reason for equipment labs to design new technology.

    Who's going to do all this when it's the government running everything? Some government employee getting paid a flat fee and not feeling any incentive to actually discover-develop-initiate anything useful?

    Legal system making money? Any reason why someone would study to be a lawyer if no profit involved? Or the companies that develop the tools used by lawyers and courts?

    Insulting doctors by accusing them of doing unnecessary procedures is so typical of a lefty. Why don't you tell your doctor that next time you go in for a visit?

    I mean really, did you wake up first or just start typing?
  • To buttneckid
    I am seriously wondering why they come here. They add nothing of use to ANY conversation. They get ridiculed every time they say anything. Why come here? Copyleft and snarkybird are either the same person or two different trolls that have been assigned to this message board. You think I am joking? I guarantee that THIS administration has people they pay to watch "Rightwing" message boards and even comment in them. This is VERY typical of this HIGHLY tyranical government we live under. At some point TRUE Americans are going to remind these self appointed elites that they are not at powerful as they think they are.
  • To snarkybird
    No I am sorry Godwin's Law DOES NOT apply when they ARE ACTUALLY DOING what Hitler did. Infact if you were to tell someone what Obama IS doing and not mention any names most people would guess you were talking about Hitler. I am sorry Godwin's Law ONLY applies when someone "losing" an argument brings up a comparison to Hitler or Nazi's. When a political figure is actually following the Nazi party plan action for action and word for word as the Obama administration is then Godwin's Law does not apply and people should do something about it. That is where we are at. Sure Obama is not Hitler, but Obama is literally doing what Hitler did except he hasn't yet exterminated 6 million people. Notice I said YET.
  • If Americans WERE NOT this ignorant
    there is no way in hell Obama would have been elected.......that's the sad simple truth
  • reD
    um, gee, you should start reading from the bottom up on this thing.

    I said people should have listened to what he said before - exactly that.

    I was even an a** about it. :-P
  • Hey Copyleft
    The courts and the military are Constitutionally delegated functions of the Federal Government. Health care is NOT.

    It's really that simple, and as we all know the simple facts confuse the left the most
  • Copyleft...
    ...you mean like the other government run single payer systems like Social Security; Medicare; the VA; Welfare...please name me some Government run programs that has shown any measure of profitability; especially compared to free market entrepreneurship. Even when the government injected itself into the current heathcare market the only thing that happened was inflated prices, lack of service, loss of qualified practitioners. Sure, the government is the answer.
  • Obama Is Lying
    What people hear is if you like your health care plan, you don't have to change. What the masses do not realize is if your employer provides that health insurance, it is not their decision to keep or not keep. What Obama counts on is the employers will see it is cheaper to pay the per employee penalty of 8% or whatever it might end up being and discontinuing their health plan. End result is that these employees are now covered by the public option. Obama and his minions know this but will not share that part of their plan.
  • ya'll iz nutz....................................
    you dumbasses are givin' snarky waaaaaaay too much attention......it's like an itch keep scratchin' it keeps itchin'........
  • To: Todd
    I'm curious... where did you get the bizarre notion that healthcare should be a for-profit enterprise?

    Should our courts be run as a privatized, profit-making system? Should our armies (see: Blackwater)? Of course not. And neither should healthcare.

    With a for-profit system, insurers make money by denying (i.e., "rationing") your care. And doctors make money by prescribing uneeded treatments and ordering unnecessay tests. How is that a good thing?

    Waiting for the inevitable deafening silence and scrunched-up frowns as right-wingers try to think... they're so cute when the do that!
  • "Pay attention to what President Obama is saying NOW"
    Note that what they're demanding is that you ignore any historical positions Obama has taken and/or expressed, and only pay attention to the things he's talking about RIGHT NOW.

    When they say, "No one's talking about...", and when they say, "President Obama is saying...", all they're really trying to do is get you to ignore (and hopefully forget) what he's said previously.

    Shame!
  • Disinformation!?
    How in the hell can she or anyone say "disinformation" when they have not read the entire bill!? It could have a paragraph in it related to alien invasions for all they know. When is someone gonna put 3 rings around this circus?
  • Patriot til' Death
    you've got it down pat.
  • reivan
    Hmmm

    "Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

    Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages." - wikipedia

    yeah, I think you're wrong
  • Hey SnarkA$$
    Is this one edited:

    http://bit.ly/17TJZ3
  • I have concluded that...
    snarkybird is absolutely nuts beyond any shadow of a doubt. He rails on me for being off my meds and stupid crap like that. Funny how he ends up looking like the REAL loon here.
  • rerockhound
    yeah, this isnt hard: http://mediamatters.org/research/200908030046

    of course, you have to read a lot and pay attention and all that other "stuff" but...ya know, your way is good too.
  • To snarkybird
    You should not engage in this argument. Godwin's Law DOES NOT apply here. Nice try though.
  • Tom
    I understand. With pain through my entire body I can imagine how wonderful that would be. The people would finally wake up and say WTH have we done?

    HOWEVER, the damage could be irreversible. So I'm afraid IMO that we can't allow this crap to go through.

    And then again, when I see the stupidity coming from the left/statists, there is this urge to just let em have it, totally screw it up, then show them how to set things right.
  • @Tom
    I agree with Tom to a point, but the problem is that people tend to blame everything but socialism when socialism fails, and often demand more socialism to fix problems caused by socialism.
  • unfair insurance regulations?
    Most of these insurance regulations are guidelines used to meet federal regulations, no? reference 2:20 in the video

    So what the video of the Linda something, message is that the federal govt sets unfair regulations....
  • reivan
    You said "To snarkybird
    Would you kindly STFU. Your BS is not needed today. We are talking about stopping government healthcare. You are not invited to this convo because you are complicit in destroying our healthcare system by supporting Obama"

    LOL, yes you're probably one of these dolts at a townhall demanding that govt keep it hands of medicare.

    yeah, good luck stopping what already exists there...you're gonna a bigger black helicopter :-)
  • retom
    You had me at "happen" :-)
  • Enjoy!
    We here at the White House ask that you pause to enjoy the following Three Minutes Hate.
  • health care
    Does no one ever look at history. Income tax started out a a measly 2% and only on the top 1% of earners. Look at what it turned into. Look at all the departments started by government and what they have become - dept of ed. energy, homeland security, etc. Anyone that believes anything about a government program and what is stated by Congress is nothing more than a fool or just ignorant.
  • fkaner@comcast.net
    Jubilation T. Cornporne @ 9:25
    Guess what? The Bush administration isn't holding these townhall meetings anymore, everyone and anyone can attend the townhall meetings,even you! They're open to the public now!
    Why would you need an invitation to attend a townhall meeting,which townhall meeting are you talking about,who held it,and when was it held?!You need to get your lies straight!
  • Government control of everything!
    Neal, it seems that your link to the videos on this one is not working. I saw the clip many times on Fox, the only television news source that is any good.
    I suppose it could be my computer/browser acting up, but I would guess the government has control of our internet too. Forcing us to see only what they want us to see.

    Hey, all you people in favor of a single-payer system: Are you interested in giving our government control of every aspect of our lives? Media, internet, EVERYTHING? That is where we are headed... every day it gets a little worse. So much for freedom. We have lost more freedom in the last few decades than you can imagine. We now have less than 50% freedom, greater than 50% control by our wonderful government! Just think of it... all the portions of our life that are basically controlled. Please, sit back and think for awhile.
  • Simplified Claim System Needed...
    I can't say I feel sorry for the health insurance companies. They haven't done a good job in making health care efficient and affordable for most of America. It seems they spent their money buying off mostly Republicans and some Democrats to pass legislation that will maximize their profits.

    Profits over principles seems to be the status quo. You can have both but they wanted more profit and were willing to sacrifice principles to ensure maximum profits.

    Now it's coming back to bite them.

    I don't agree with government health care but it was inevitable.
    I've experienced as millions others have the hassle and poor customer service from more than one health insurance company that refuses your claim with vague explanation. Then you have to spend hours trying to contact someone to explain why. Finally, you just give up.

    Oh well, the health insurance industry has reaped what it has sown to all of our detriment.

    We the people have done a poor job of electing officials that are suppose to help the people not the corporations who seek to maximize profits over principles.
  • AMERICANS ARE THIS IGNORANT!
    if they think anything they do or any body they vote for will change anything.

    its like neal's fair tax. don't hold your breaths.
  • The people are ignorant
    Obama treats the public as ignorant because IT IS ignorant. He wouldn't be president otherwise. Even when the public does take the correct side en mass it's usually out of fear and by accident.
  • godwin's law - reivan
    that didn't take long at all.

    yes, imagine...neal posts a video that was known to be edited to say something the president didnt say as a legitimate source and these things spread like wildfire and some how the white house wants to counter with actual information rather than propaganda.

    And you squeal "nazi"?

    If your skin were any thinner you'd fall apart.
  • oh they'll forget by then..................................
    mormin' my fellow amerikans...........what you gonna do with your osamabama care when you get it??? go to mexico and screw up their system?????

    'cuz you will be gittin' osamabama care this year.....how do I know this????

    amerikans have memories that are just a lil' shorter than their reproductive organs......oh wait!!!!!! maybe osamabama care will find a cure fo' dat...
  • Copyleft and others
    "any movement away from our current, broken system is still a welcome relief."

    Why don't they get it? Doing something for the sake of doing something is not always good!

    An example would be being waist deep in crap and just standing there doing nothing. Then Copyleft comes along and says "Any movement is better than our current situation! Let's get on our knees! I really want us to lay down, but all you fear mongers are fooling people into believing that's a bad idea. At least we have ideas!"

    I agree, that we are waist deep in the current system, but all the rest of the single payer health control systems are neck high in crap, and it's very easy to see that is not the direction we should be moving.
  • keep your insurance
    Yes, you'd be able to keep your health insurance... Until your insurer discontinued the plan, because the pool would shrink due to no new policies... Because Obama's plan doesn't allow people to buy new health insurance. It's govcare or nothing.
  • Single-Payer = Death
    Is it me or does anyone else find it ironic that those who advocate a "single-payer" system are also the same people that rail against corporate monopolies? Same animal. Single-payer plans will stifle innovation and research and development. Consider for one moment, you only had one car company to choose from. No variety.No incentive to make anything better.

    Single-payer means death. I know Neal doesn't like discussing it, but we knew who these people were. The same ones that want to kill children in the womb, are now the ones who want to council seniors on how they can end their life in a "dignified manner". Basically, go crawl up into a corner and die, because you cost too much to keep alive! It is a culture of death, and that is why that party will from now be known to me as the Deathocrats.
  • repete
    You said "...that we get to keep our current insurance. You just best hope to god nothing gets changed as far as your job, your premiums, or if you want a different type of coverage because you are unhappy with what you have. If you do want any of that, you are riding the government death train to rationed life saving medical treatment."

    Yes. Except now, the only difference is if any of that happens your just riding a death train...period.
  • Re: Sadly
    Copyleft writes:"...but any movement away from our current, broken system is still a welcome relief."

    Sadly, you really mean that. Good God.
  • Neal, look at your local freeway ramp these days.
    People have become too dumb to merge, do you think they’ll spot even an obvious con job? I’m always hopeful, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    Like the wright quotes they claimed were misleading because they were taken out of context, the context only made them worse. They can point to what he says different for general consumption all they want, but I’m going with what he says to his people (the leftist moonbats), and what he does, which I notice are consistent with each other.

    Aside from contradictions of competing with a government entity, that msm hack linda douglass needs to explain how they can want to reform insurance, and want competitiveness in health care, when they maintain health care for profit in itself is wrong? That’s the lie all their other lies are built on.
  • single-payer success?
    Copyleft, name one country that has the single payer system that does not ration health care and also creates enough profit to fund itself. How about you move to Cuba since you love so much state control.
  • fkaner@comcast.net
    Wonder how much Neal paid out-of-pocket for his much bally-hooed,bragged about knee replacement?
    How come he doesn't talk about his health plan, how much he pays and how much his employer pays monthly?
  • Brownshirts
    Sounds a lot like the Brownshirt Propoganda that can be seen in the holocaust museum. This time the Dems are painting the angry American people to be insurance stooges who are against the common good of the country.
  • Disinfirmation My Eye
    Only Democrats and Leftists can take someone's word on video and make it something it's not. Watch the video of Obama saying that he will eliminate private insurance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk How can they deny this? How? His words, "I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately..." It's his own words. It's not spin. It's not taken out of context. It's not misunderstood. It's not "bogus". It's what he says unless I'm not understanding the term eliminate correctly which I know I'm not. Yet you stooges on the left are acting like we're not understanding what he says. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines eliminate as this:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eliminate
    1 a: to put an end to or get rid of : remove, eradicate b: to remove from consideration c: to remove from further competition by defeating

    There's no misunderstanding this. It is what it is. He wants a single payer system and that system is going to be a government system and the majority of people do not want a government system. It's really that simple folks. Oh, if you go to one of these townhall meetings, ask the congressperson if this system will be the same one congressmen and senators get. My guess the answer would be a no.
  • Really, Copyleft?
    You think that a monopoly run by the government would be the best and most effective system? (Except, of course, Congress would be excempt). There are laws against that very thing in the private sector.
  • @Copyleft
    "It's unfortunately true that the new plan is NOT a single-payer system--which would, of course, be the best and most effective system."

    Since when has a government run monopoly ever been the best solution? We all know the issues with the evil of military spending such as $200 for a hammer, etc. Why would government funded health care be any different? There is no motivation to actually cut costs. No one would be threatening to undercut this government board managing costs with better options. Instead, there are lots of motivations to get re-elected, and thus respond to lobbying and mob mentality, not market forces. This means lobbying will probably increase by orders of magnitude.

    "Instead, we have a halfhearted compromise proposal that still permits private health insurers to exist."

    Do you hear that? "...permits...to exist". This country was founded on freedom. The constitution was never written such that the government decided what businesses could exist or not exist. Instead, the government is tasked to coin money, defend our borders, and protect our property (the essence of our lives). The courts are there to offer due process, and route of appeal. Russia might have TRIED to manage their economy from the politburro, but America was never created in that image.

    "...I suspect the influence of powerful health-insurance lobbyists..."

    Go single payer, and you will see a whole new era of lobbying.

    "...but any movement away from our current, broken system is still a welcome relief."

    You mean the system that ~83% of the people have no problem with? I guess if some cars are breaking down on the highways, then the entire auto industry is broken, and we need to re-invent car manufactoring for EVERYONE, right?

    "I guess we'll have to be content with baby steps on this one."

    Liberals, progressives, statists, and marxists have always been happy with baby steps, aka incrementalism. Its the way they have been steering this country away from its roots over the past 50-100 years.

    "Neal, of course, is simply lying and spinning as usual... nothing new there."

    Kind of tough to claim Neal is lying, considering ALL the video clips from both sides are there for your viewing. Obama is really speaking from sides of his mouth, and you can see it all for yourself. Don't insult my intelligence.
  • flag@whitehouse.gov?!
    Couldn't the WH have chosen a better email address like healthcare@whitehouse.gov or something? flag@whitehouse.gov should be reserved for matters regarding our flag?
  • Let it happen
    I'm sure I'll probably get flack for this, but hear me out - there's method to my madness.

    In a nutshell...we should stop fighting this ObamaCare or whatever you wanna call it and just let it happen. Oh....and the all the other Obama and DP initiatives?? We shouldn't stand in the way of them either. Pass it all I say.

    In my way of thinking, resisting all of this BS just prolongs things and results in "compromises" that legitimize all the crap the loonie left is trying to enact. I say we (and those Republicans in Washington that have the balls to do so) just walk away and let it be known that we're having no part of it.

    Yes - the down side is the potentially horrible things that would happen. But wouldn't that be a better way to move people to act and make them realize that the Federal Government is no longer "of the people"?

    What message would be delivered if ALL Replublican House and Senate members made it a point to show up EVERY day for either their joint sessions or committee meetings and when the folks on the other side of the aisle started talking their BS, the Repubs simple said, "You know, that's BS and we're not gonna be a part of it." And then they ALL walk out - just get up and WALK THE HE!! OUT. What happens then??

    The bottom line is that the American people - regardless of political party affliation - need a rude awakening as to what Washington is doing to this country. And that will never happen as long as there are "negotiations" and "compromises" and bi-partisan hanky-panky and whatever. No, I say let the DP's have their way and let the chips fall so everyone can see them for who they are.
  • I guess we're just stupid...
    ... because we didn't realize that Obama just wants to give us a better option. And we'd be even stupider (sorry, Neal, I went to a gov't school!) to think that any of the protests at the town hall meetings were anything other than "plants" from right wing groups. No one would actually want to go and say how they feel about their health care or tell the government to stay out of it! That's crazy talk! It has to be Evil Conservatives just trying to make the Liberal Fascists look bad.
  • Disinformation comes from the mouth of the big O
    When is the press going to call the President on the OUTRIGHT LIE that "if you like your current plan you can keep it". He should say "...you can keep it for a just little while." The administration neglects to mention that your employer can only continue to offer existing plans during a 5 year grace period after which time the policy must be replaced by one with terms that conform to the whims of government appointed review board. He left off that those with individual insurance cannot have their plans amended, or shop among individual plans currently available. The only allowed options for new individual plans will be those approved and offered through the exchange.

    The government option has nothing to do with offering competition and choice and everything to do with control.
  • To snarkybird
    Would you kindly STFU. Your BS is not needed today. We are talking about stopping government healthcare. You are not invited to this convo because you are complicit in destroying our healthcare system by supporting Obama.
  • Re: Copyleft
    So essentially your response to facts is "Well, Neal is lying"? Wow. Good one. You really put us in our places.
  • Ignorant Folks
    The gov't will get control of health care and it will be the vice clamp on our collective cojones that insures we the people are always dependent on corrupt incumbents.
  • Which one is the lie?
    If there are video clips that offer contradictory information, we must ask ourselves....which one is the lie? Was he lying to the unions who helped get him elected? or is he lying about the current plan?
  • Sadly true
    It's unfortunately true that the new plan is NOT a single-payer system--which would, of course, be the best and most effective system.

    Instead, we have a halfhearted compromise proposal that still permits private health insurers to exist. I suspect the influence of powerful health-insurance lobbyists in derailing the much more sensible single-payer plan and taking it "off the table."

    Which is a shame for America, of course--but any movement away from our current, broken system is still a welcome relief. I guess we'll have to be content with baby steps on this one.

    Neal, of course, is simply lying and spinning as usual... nothing new there.
  • Jub
    Any congressman that holds an "invite only" townhall should be called out on it in public!!! That is pure propaganda, I'm sure it was filmed to be shown on the local news.

    Sounds more like the only ignorant ones are the people still trying to push this crap on us.

    And no one in Washington is interested in an honest debate. We've been trying to here but trolls keep throwing out garbage!

    The plan put forth by the House does indeed make it possible for a gradual conversion to single payer system. As Barney Frank said it was designed to do.

    http://bit.ly/17TJZ3

    Remember, Obama is the one who also said "I don't want to run a car company", "I don't want to run a bank". Well guess what!?! He doesn't want to run health care either. RUN!!!
  • Oboma isn't lying to us when he says...
    ...that we get to keep our current insurance. You just best hope to god nothing gets changed as far as your job, your premiums, or if you want a different type of coverage because you are unhappy with what you have. If you do want any of that, you are riding the government death train to rationed life saving medical treatment.
  • Also...
    I forgot to mention that the White House is asking for people to turn in people that are talking out against Obamacare. They claim that bloggers and people in every day conversation are spreading disinformation. That is awesome. Gotta love government propaganda. It is feeling like Nazi Germany more and more every day.
  • Single Payer
    Someone should as Obama: "If I don't like my present plan, will I be able to shop freely for a better one?"
  • Liars
    These people are HORRIBLE liars. They think the American people are absolute morons. The funny thing is that you guys call me "crazy" all the time, but this is just MORE proof that I have been right all along. These elites think the people of this country are the lowest form of life and they treat us that way. There is no respect anymore. The time is approaching where the people might have to take their country back. Allowing Obama to destroy our country is not an option. To those that so how don't understand what is going on please wake the **** up. This is not a joke. We are not laughing.
  • The myth known as socialism
    These people are dangers to themselves (and the rest of the US), that is clear. The level of common sense has been degraded to a fleeting thought. This has got to end, they are destroying our institutions for a cause that will lead to failure!

    Their willingness to destroy the country for a purpose believed to be "the greater good" can be summarized in one quote. By a well respected thinker of the statist movement, Nietzsche...

    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."

    Where is common sense and our Constitution?
  • Obama got elected
    The voters are obviously that ignorant.

    Of course, all this blather about 'universal single-payer gub'mint health / medical care' lunacy undermines the primary point of ignorance: It's not the gub'mint's business to be in business!!

    ~~I blame gub'mint schools.
  • "My" Congressman held a townhall meeting on healthcare and ...
    I wasn't invited. The only invitees were those folks who had "horror stories" because they were uninsured, underinsured, had pre-existing conditions, etc. And "my" Congressman (he's not really mine, I haven't got enough $$ to buy him or his vote) promised to make sure I pay for their healthcare in addition to my own. I'm so happy I could just ...
  • douglass
    From the White House website:

    "There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov." http://snipr.com/orawv
  • A zebra can't change her stripes
    To paraphrase Dennis Green( former NFL Coach )"They are who we thought they were...". No lady, nothing was taken 'out of context'! People are actually speaking to each other, watching tv and maybe to a lesser degree, listening to talk radio. Can't liberals accept the idea that not all conservatives get their 'talking points' and 'marching orders' from Rush, et al? Unlike the mindless throngs of Obama supporters who clamored for 'Change' and 'Hope' last year, people who are raising questions( which needed to be raised!)and protesting this ridiculous plan as a takeover( which it is!)aren't clones or trying to make a 'fashionable' political statement. They're pissed because the Democrats in Congress and the Whitehouse are whitewashing over the healthcare plan and selling it as 'reform'. Trying to disgiuse it as 'a public option' and 'no threat to insurance compnaies'. Of course Linda Douglass has to talk this way, she's on the payroll. I think Americans, even many who voted for slogans and clever ad campaigns, have realized what a ride we're being taken for( and what fools the Democrats think we are). Deny it, spin it any way you want, it is what it is. Busted!
  • Health Care Reform
    The defense that the statements by Obama were taken out of context is ridiculous. They are what they are. He said he is for single payor health care.

    I've only managed to wade through the first 60 pages of the health reform bill so far. The main thing that popped up and scared the heck out of me was the establishment of the Health Care Advisory Board as an extension of the Executive Branch of the Government. This is the board that would set the standards for health care for the country. The board members would be appointed by the President. Is this really what people think they want in this country?
  • pay attention
    I seem to recall Obama saying many times during the campaign that if he thought it was possible, he's prefer to have a single payer system. He said it many times. He consistently followed that comment with one saying that it wasn't possible to get one setup here because of all the systems already in place.

    He also said he thought healthcare was a right, not a privilege. He said that in one of the three debates with McCain. It was on TV and everything.

    I'm not sure why this is news to you.

    This video was in direct response to the video you hosted showing Obama saying he wanted to get rid of the insurance companies but that it wouldn't happen right away. Even the comments on your site said this video was bogus. It was. But, folks like you dont want to have an honest debate. It just about debunking. It feels very birther like...very creationist like. It's not about answers. Its about an agenda.
  • Health Care
    Oh yes, the barking-moonbats will believe the disinformation coming from Barry and the White House. In my life I’ve never seen people so pissed off, 2010 has the potential to be 1994 times two. I’ve been to three Tea Parties, and from what I’ve seen – these are not the people to make mad, this isn’t a rent-a-mob, but the people who pay the freight, and make America work.
  • Health Control, not Health Care
    I think Thomas Sowell made a great point in his column yesterday, "The crucial word is not "care" but "control." I wonder how much more effective the debate would be if we substituted the word "control" for "care" in the "Health Control Debate?"
  • What is this woman trying to refute? Obama is shown on video contradicting her. They really do think we're stupid.
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