"Enables retirees to keep their entire pension, converted IRAs / 401Ks, investments, etc., all free of Federal taxation."
Except with an over 20% increase in everything they buy! The "22%" embedded tax is nonsense! Once again, not JUST consumers pay for current taxes in products. That is why the chief economist of AMERICANS FOR FAIR TAXATION(the MAIN FraudTax group!) called this idea "simplistic"!

"Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck with no Federal government related deductions."
Misleading, allows them to keep a paycheck free of any DIRECT federal taxation. But their employer's use them as a service, so the employer's are taxed(so that INDIRECTLY taxes them). EXCEPT if under the FraudTax, businesses are exempt, which gives
businesses all sorts of deductions, which TOTALLY won't be beaurocratic when businesses try to buy EVERYTHING they can without a 23% tax on it.

"Discourages criminal illegal aliens from "working" here as they would have to pay into the “system” based on their
purchases but would not receive any tax prebates."
The black market will be SOO large for retailers and companies to "illegally" sell item's to RADICALLY willing consumers that, not ONLY will "illegal" immigrants be the last of your worries(maybe their "tax Deducted" employers will pay for their item's) but when the revenue goes down(I would do ANYTHING to avoid a 23% tax) the "23%" rate WILL go up. And immigrants pay twice into the system than they take out, so they are a ZERO% burden on the economy.

"Allows American products to compete fairly in world export markets as our products would have no embedded tax component."
"no embedded tax component"? No, of course not! Just a 23% tax on ALL of their production. Remember, there is NO way to tax consumption, ONLY production.

"Upon its enactment virtually all states that have an income tax would opt for a similar system."
HAHAHAHA! NO, I am sure after we implement the FraudTax, they will be RUNNING AWAY from a HUGE tax on business production, mixed with a massive welfare check system.

"Makes America the preferred tax haven of the world and would ensure an estimated $13 Trillion US of capital would return here."
That $13 Trillion will NEVER come to a country with a 23% tax on production! "Makes America the preferred tax haven of the world" HAHAHAHA!

"What's not to like here?"
Nothing, it is ALL good! Too bad it is all false!

Qwerty is a Twerpy

The only possible scenario worse than our convoluted tax system, one that is totally driven by class warfare politics and special interest tax treatments, would be for Congress to impose a VAT on top of the existing broken tax system, just like they have in Canada and most of Western Europe.

While there will be some small holes in this as in any tax system, consider the overwhelming features / benefits in comparison to our current system. Some of these would include:

* Keeps the costs of goods and services pretty much where they are today.
* Abolishes the IRS completely and removes the need to file any tax. related info with the Feds.
* Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities of life based on family size based by using a "tax prebate" system. (This removes any notion that it is “regressive” and unfair to the so-called poor in this country.)
* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy by severely restricting Congress' ability to game the tax code as there is only one rate and no deductions. (This would put some 30,000+ DC based lobbyists out of business.)
* Closes virtually all tax loopholes and brings about an unprecedented level of "real fairness" to taxation.
* Maintains our current Social Security and Medicare funding at current levels. (How to fix these broken programs is another issue.)
* Enables retirees to keep their entire pension, converted IRAs / 401Ks, investments, etc., all free of Federal taxation.
* Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck with no Federal government related deductions.
* Discourages criminal illegal aliens from "working" here as they would have to pay into the “system” based on their purchases but would not receive any tax prebates.
* Allows American products to compete fairly in world export markets as our products would have no embedded tax component.
* Upon its enactment virtually all states that have an income tax would opt for a similar system.
* Makes America the preferred tax haven of the world and would ensure an estimated $13 Trillion US of capital would return here. (Talk about a real stimulous to the US economy vs the crony capitalist inspired dubious infrastructure spending sponsored by the Chosen One and the Liberal Dem Congress.)

What's not to like here?

this is fron 2 days ago

Qwerty doesn't have one, single thing right in his/her analysis. Not one.

Another example of the government-educated, rabid liberal mind.

qwerty is a jerk

I give up, you cannot have a rational conversation. And you are too stubborn to see FairTax as a step in the right direction away from the garbage we have now!

so tard this...

"You have to have been issued a sales tax id to collect or charge tax"
OOOH!!! Government licensing!!! GGRREEAATT!!

"I don't think that applies to some kid mowing my yard."
It directly applies to "some kid mowing my yard". Either the kid would be illegal under the law, have to be given a special license by the government(OOOH GREAT!!!), or be banned from doing it.

"calling someone "tard" then we just all go downhill from there."
Trying to be logical with a FairTard goes all "downhill from there".

"Do you seriously think we will EVER do away with tax all together!!!!!!!!"
Do you seriously think we will EVER have the FraudTax, when probably under THIS YEAR's federal spending level increase the "23%" will skyrocket, nevermind in 3.5 MORE years of increased gunverment? You can either legitimize the state with your
FraudTax, or just oppose the state theft as a whole.

"The Fairtax is the best idea to come along in a century."
HAHAHAHA!

"Keep knocking it down"
I will try to knock down ANY mafia theft idea, whether out of my paycheck OR my purchases.

OMG! I envy you...you are so much smarter than the rest of us. it must be truly wonderful to have the intelligence to understand things we lesser people cannot comprehend.

If I had a choice of buying used no tax or new with tax, I'd start buying more used just to save my money.

And prices of housing very well might drop. Which would not necessarily be a bad thing, because our money would be worth more!

And Tony, I don't know of very many retailers who sell used goods anyway. Thrift stores maybe. But they should be exempt.

Like Rand said, separate economy from government.

Get government back to the small little critter it should be, and there is no reason why that 23% couldn't be reduced.

We would need to make it difficult for any change in the percentage or in the "prebate". Approval has to start at the State legislature, not Washington.

I don't see how people would start buying used over new items if they aren't doing it alread today. Nor would I see retailers drop the price of used items by 30%.

Would you sell your house for 30% less? Most people are already buying used houses today. If you buy a new car today, you'd probably by a new car again in the future. The price wouldn't look any different to the consumer. The retailer still wouldn't sell a used one for less because they would lose money. Again the price of new items would essentially look the same. Ever bought a used cell phone...maybe used underwear? Maybe used video games and videos, but the majority of what people buy would remain the same.

For those that get 'hit' the hardest, you have to remember that people making 60-150k a year just got a 30+ % raise by not paying taxes, plus they get the rebate. The people making out the best is the poor because that rebate is a higher percentage of their total income then the income of someone making a million a year.

Plus if the governments wants the people to start spending again, i'm sure that 30% 'salary' increase by not paying taxes would hugely increase spending.

But, you have to remember the government loses something very dear to them...VOTES. Ask yourself, is it for our benefit or for there's?

So Mark...you wouldn't buy anything new? Eating used food would be pretty disgusting, wiping your butt with used toilet paper...now that is really disgusting, brushing your teeth with a used toothbrush or flossing with...gross! Wearing used underwear? I am sure you get the point. And...the prebate is based on family size...not income level.

qwerty, if you are going to bash the fairtax, try reading the book first so you understand what you are talking about. Cutting grass has nothing to do with paying a tax, it's only taken at the retail level. Plus it's embedded so the consumer will never see a line item tax like it does today. The 'tax' is paid by the retailer. The retailer already pays the tax it collects at the state level and pays the state. Having an increase percent that is paid the the feds will not add that much more work as paying the other taxes. It's not a 23% tax on business because all the previous taxes on the manufacturer and supplier are gone, effectively lowering the initial price that the retailer purchases them for then resells at the same profit margin they had before. Then that price is increase to the normal price the consumer paid before which is roughly 23%.

Basically the fed gets paid when the item is purchased by the consumer, not when it is made, shiped, and then purchased by retail store.

And your comment about no taxes what so ever?? I'm sure everyone is for that but how does the fed gov make money?

How would it stimulate jobs away from the US when they wouldn't have to pay corporate taxes here? That's just stupid.

Are you sure you're not related to 3mbw, sounds like you've been hanging out with each other.

The trolls on this site are so lame.

Your incoherent rants against the FairTax illustrate two things. 1. You do not understand the FairTax. 2. You most likely failed any creative writing or business writing classes you may have taken.

I'm all for a regressive tax. If you make less than $25k a year, you get taxed at 80%. If you make over $1 million a year, you don't get taxed a dime. How fast do you think people would work to get out of their minimum wage jobs, then?

Stimulate jobs *away* from the US? There wouldn't be any taxes on corporations, they would LOVE to bring business here.

More jobs, more business for local vendors suppling the new businesses.

Have you READ the FairTax proposal?

Yes you are a tard.

Sorry Mark, but it would encourage smart spending and saving so I think the middle class would love it. It would also not be applied to used goods, which I never buy a car new. Almost new, so I'm getting current technology, but would buy it after the taxes had been paid on that item.

The biggest advantage, again, would be the increase in jobs.

would ensure that everyone (including the illegals) contribute to the running of this country instead of just the top 20 percent. Now that is fair.

"But the FairTax WOULD stimulate our economy and take away the stigma of filing every year."

It would "stimulate" jobs away from the united states, when a sales(services also) tax is basically a "23%" tax on business. And the FraudTax just renames the IRS, it does not eliminate them. And the "new" IRS would become the largest welfare handout ever, and start looking at your purchases (did you pay your taxes on that T.V.?!?!), and if little johnny mows a lawn and does not charge the FraudTax, he is now a criminal!!! WOW!!! GREAT IDEA!!!

Joyce M/Blythe, Don't be "tard" if you can help it...

The FraudTax is SOO stupid, just check the Mises Institute on this 'idea'. The only true idea would be to ELIMINATE the income tax(and all other taxes) and replace it with NOTHING! But that idea was supported by a libertarian(RP), so obviously you did not support this. TARD!