Don't know about your Doctor's but what they charge the insurance company is not what they are paid. And if you are self pay it's even less than what they get from the insurance company.

$75 dollar for a vist under self pay
$88 if you have insurance + $20 co-pay.
$325 is what they bill the insurance company.

When you have someone else paying the bill, those little sniffles will more often result in a visit to the doctor since it's "free". The end result will be higher utilization or, to keep costs down, rationing of services.

Think about it. If you got a parking lot scratch on your car would you get it fixed if your insurance paid for all of it? How about if you had a $500 deductible?

I disagree with the comparison of health care insurance to auto or home insurance. The health issues which drive many Americans into insolvency or bankruptcy are not single-event, catastrophic incidents. Those can usually be recovered from with time and care (physically and financially). What is literally driving Americans to bankruptcy are long-term illnesses-many of which cannot be prevented no matter what choices an individual makes in diet or environment (Cancer-absent skin or lung, Type 1 Diabetes, etc.) Auto insurance doesn't cover having to repair a vehicle on a daily basis, and home insurance doesn't cover having to make daily, minor repairs, either. But most of us couldn't afford a car OR a home if there was something that literally had to be fixed at a cost of $5,$10, $50, or even $100 a day-every day of the year.

To add insult to injury (pun intended), even those of us who pay for premium policies through our employers aren't "safe". My out-of-pocket portion of the monthly premium for my family of 4 totaled over $10k last year. Yet if I developed a long-term or lifetime illness which required ongoing and expensive treatment, I could still easily be in bankruptcy within 12-24 months.

I don't care what party you belong to-when paying close to $1000 a month for insurance, and more money out of pocket for co-pays and prescriptions is STILL not enough to safeguard the health of yourself and your family, then the system is irrevocably broken. I am all for profit-insurance companies and health care providers are businesses. But at some point they have to be taken to task and forced to actually provide medical services and pay for health care in exchange for the premiums they receive-without the option to manage the level of care a policy holder receives based on skewed "risk" models.

Jason, that kind of coverage is super cheap through AFLAC. We have family hospitalization and Short Term Disability for $28 a week. Pays a yearly benefit to us just for getting checkups.

Ever notice that nobody ever mentions the poor health insurance companies that would go out of business with nationalized health care?
Hmmm, conspicuosly absent or purposely never mentioned side to the equation?
Why is that?

Most people don't want insurance. They want someone oelse to pay their bill. Mandatory national health insurance will work by making healthy people pay for sick people. It won't work unless you can force the healthy people to pay "their fair share". If you have a chronic condition, You aren't looking for insurance. You don't expect and certtainly don't want to pay the full cost of your own normal treatment.

For clarification purposes....in my post I compared ladies getting their hair done to getting their teeth cleaned. Both are around $80. Last time I checked there was no such thing as "hair insurance".
To Rob...you've got a good point. There needs to be some way to assist paying to treat life long chronic diseases. You had no choice in the matter...yet it happened.

Do you have a wife? Does she have her hair styled or colored? Runs from m$85 to $150 per month in my household...male haircuts may be $15, but not females

Some principles about insurance:

1) The first dollar of coverage is always the most expensive. Self-insure as many of those first dollars as you can through deductibles.

2) Just like Vegas, the insurance industry wasn't built on "winners". Insurance is a bit of a sucker bet--only insure those things that you CANNOT afford to lose, since you're not going to "beat the house" in the long run. Hint: Your comfort due to a sniffle is NOT one of them.

A $15 haircut??? Really. If you let your hair go, people look at you funny. You can also cut your hair yourself, or have a friend or family member do it for you.

Try self treatment, or a friend, or family member for early detection of rectal cancer. Get a clue. $175 doctor visit is something all can budget for.

I can almost see it coming as a "right" - regular maintenance such as oil changes paid for by a so-called "insurance" policy.

Or can I only get that with Government Motors vehicles?

"Ben from Norcross"

where do you live? In my town a $175.00 Dr. visit is hardly comparible to a $15.00 haircut!

OMGosh...this subject infuritates me! My solution (if given the opportunity to solve it) would be to implement a national healthcare savings plan! These plans are already set in place, however they're not long-term and expire at year's end. If folks were just educated on this issue, the healthcare savings accounts could in essence, solve the healthcare crisis. Think about this: What if you were able to set aside funds tax-free from the time you started working up until the day you retire and were to have full access to this money for healthcare expenses all throughout your life? This would allow for people to save for say... braces for the kids, HAVING kids, and even cosmedic surgery! The clinics, doctor's offices, and hospitals would love this because it would be CASH UP FRONT w/o all the red-tape of insurance!
What a concept! Too bad it's not being talked about more. And Neal, I'm a fan of the Fair Tax and when it becomes a reality someday, the national health-savings account idea would still be relevant because even though it would not have a tax advantage, people would already have a mind-set of puting aside money into an account (one that possibly could earn interest) all for the benefit of paying for healthcare costs. THEN, one can perhaps purchase a seperate "insurance" to help subsidize for catastophic circumstances that may come down the pike.

It's not as clear cut a difference as Neal makes things out to be. If you come down with a chronic condition when you were 21, as I have (ulcerative colitis - don't look it up if you are squeamish), that requires about $500 a month in medications and doctor visists, it surely was unexpected. But this "unexpected" illness will go on for the rest of my life, barring a scientific breakthrough. When does it become "expected?"

I was insured when I came down with the illness, and the terms of my insurance were that these medications would be covered. Why shouldn't they cover my illness for as long as I have it? Is there a point where someone decides that my medication costs are to be "reasonable and expected?" and I'm stuck with the whole bill myself?

When I was a wee bit younger I was out trying my own thing, I purchased catostrophic health insurance. Yes it was actually insurance. It only covered the unexpected medical bills like emergency room visits, surguries, broken bones all with a 20% deductible. Just like my car, my health was insured. I did need a minor operation and it paid the 80% with no problem.

As a young male, health maintenance coverage is a waste of money. The few times I actually got sick and had to see a doc was cheaper to pay the doc than to have "insurance".

My only concern is as I age toward retirement age and need alot of health maintenance I will not be able to afford it.

Say No to governement health "insurance"!!!

“There are certain budgetary requirements that come into play when you own a house or a car…”
Makes sense to me. So if I own me then I have a certain responsibility to take care of me via planning. But if the Government owns me then I can abdicate that responsibility to politicians.

Slavery / Bondage:
The state of being under the control of another person
As a social-economic system, slavery is a legal institution under which a person is compelled to work for another.

I'm so tired of people not understanding the concept of insurance. It's for catastrophic events - not annual physicals or a head cold.

AMEN