Doctors are already having to limit the number of patients they take that have the current government run insurance (medicare)in order to make their practices viable. They are being told by the current government run insurance (medicare) how to run their practice and how to bill the patients. Yes Medicare patients have the choice of whom they see but the physician they see is being told by the government what tests are medically necessary for which disease process/how to do their billing/what they have to do for their patients in the hospital for certain diagnosis (core measures-pneumonia/CHF/AMI). It is the same story as with private insurances just paid at a lower rate and wrapped up in red tape and government speak making it difficult for the providers to interpret and impossible for the average patient to understand..that is where universal "free" (misnomer) will go as well eventually.

Ummm, you say I engage in childish name calling and the you call just a doc a retard.
That must be how you go about life...projecting on everyone about how miserable and bitter they are when in reality..it's you isn't it?
C'mon Jacob, admit it..mid life crisis, or sexual identity confusion?

Nobody minds providing decent health care for people who cannot (as opposed to WILL not) provide for themselves.

But why should I pay for health care for Bill Gates? Or Bill Clinton? For billionaires from Washington to Hollywood. Or for anybody else who can pay for their own?

DD -- You crack me up! Yep, all those over-65 folks are really lobbying hard to get rid of Medicare. I guess that's AARP's main concern these days.

And, for that matter, exactly how many of the industrialized nations around the world have voted to abolish their systems of universal health care over the last 40 years?

Answer: Precisely none.

Yep. They must really hate that socialized medicine. LOL I guess that's why the US ranks at the bottom of patient satisfaction in every world study.

Me thinkest not.

The democrooks do not have the slightest desire to "fix" healthcare. To them, it's all about control. You know, from each according to his ability to each according to his need.

And finally, the primary cost driver of health care in this country is LITIGATION. Naturally, the democrooks are in the trial lawyer's pockets. No one's even bothered to mention that in this thread....

It looks like I had better start searching medical tourism sites once this Socialized Health Care boondoggle comes to pass in the US.

As a mater of fact, you should talk to some of those over 65, many would trade it in a minute. Medicare is a joke and you want to expand that joke to everyone else!

I know this because i use to carry those folks to the doctor!

NO! Its not NUFF said!

Oh, how cute. You're sticking up for the other retard.

I'm not a pediatrician or a primary care doc. The website I quoted was from the AAP. I can see that you're reading comprehension isn't exactly the best.

The last time I had to come in the middle of the night was this morning after midnight.

The only pompous jacka** in here is you. You can't write a single intelligent sentence and clearly have no reasoning capability. Instead of trying to answer anything I wrote, all you can do is engage in childish name calling. I suppose you deserve the online MBA and miserable, bitter life you seem to have.

just where did you see that i was for government health care?

yeah i wanted to hear your opinion. what i got was
So you think that you can just hire more doctors or enroll more kids in medical school? I DOUBT IT. Perhaps you can go to a foreign country and attract a few more, maybe even LOWER THE STANDARDS to get more into medical school.

you doubt it. do you have a reason for doubting it?
and why do you think we'll have to lower our standards to get more people in medical schools?

DD --

We already have universal health care in this country for people over 65. It's called Medicare.

Ask anyone over 65 if they would prefer to trade in that system for a system based on private insurance (where the insurance companies get to pick and choose who to insure).

'Nuff said.

I'll speak in simple terms because I know there are many more complex reasons why this supposed "free" healthcare system will fail.

My husband, who spend 4 years in dental school and 2 years in endodontics school, remembers and lives by a motto reiterated during dental school: People will not appreciate any service that is given to them for free or at a high discount. What this means is that a "free" healthcare will just get taken advantage of and corrupt faster than you can say "free" healthcare.

I've also found in my own personal experiences that you get what you "pay" for even when it comes doctors/dentists/other professionals. The cheaper you pay (or get for free) the worse the services/products. Is this what we want for the majority of citizens?

I've got a 5-month-old broken couch, incorrect contact lens prescription, thread-bare clothing after only 2-3 washes, and cereal that makes my children poop bright colors. All this proves my last point above.

Oh put a sock in it already. It's obvious that you are a primary care physician, must be hard treating all those sniffles and viral colds eh? Have you ever noticed how many times you use the word "myself" It's me me me when it comes to you 24/7 isn't it you pompous jacka**. What exactly do you tell your patients? If you would only eat sensibly (like myself) and exercise (like myself) and be as efficient with your time (like myself) blah blah blah. Unlike you, some doctors actually go the extra mile for their patients and work themselves to the bone, because (unlike YOURSELF) for some doctors, other people come first.

First I have heard many people comment that it is FREE HEALTH CARE.

Next - According to you "we'd no longer pay health insurance premiums out of our paychecks". Just where is the money comming from. Get real!

Last - Why is that people think that we can take a system that trashes economies and bring it here and make it work. In ENGLAND they are trying to go private with healthcare. After just 40years they can't handle it. That is fact (have many friends in the UK). If it is such a great system why do thousands of Canadians come to the US for their healthcare? (Work with a couple of Canadians). And let us not forget how well cared for people are in places like Cuba, South America, etc.

The truth is, that the reason most peoples health insurance is so high is because most of us have to pay for coverage we don't need or want, med give away programs, and anything else politicans can force insurance companies to put in a policy to help buy votes.

I'm tired of handout programs that don't work. If some of you had the guts to say we will help those that need it and the rest of you dead beats can either work or don't eat, you find that they would get off their ass and join in. Then you would find that we wouldn't have these problems.

"WHAT MAKES US FEEL WARM AND FUZZY IS OFTEN NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO!"

Liberals would rather give half ass care to 50 people who don't need then give great care to the one that does!

While your case may invoke pity and admiration in some, your case isn't anywhere close to typical. I guess it sucks that you are so bitter. Most doctors (like myself) feel simply blessed to do what we always wanted to do since we were kids. There are a lot of perks that go with being a doctor taht you failed to mention in your little rant.

Your ovaries drying up, of course, are your fault and I'm not sure why you'd even bring that up.

Many doctors (myself included) have had a rather pleasant time with life, from start to finish. Medical school was hard, but with the proper time management folks, myself included, were able to enjoy life. Residency was hard in the pre-80 hour work week days, but if you weren't in that environment (ala 2003 or so) then you have no reason to complain; residency is practically a cake walk not.

Lastly, it's clear that your not working your fingers to the bone if you have time to read this blog in the middle of the work day and write 5 paragraph posts.

Forgot to add something from my last post.

http://www.aap.org/research/pdf/oh.pdf

The Canadian government spends more than $1 billion each year for its population of ~ 34 million to receive medical treatment in the US." That fact alone should be a real cause for concern for implementing socialized healthcare in this country as Canada is the proposed model for "universal care" by the Obamessiah et al. Just where would Americans go as an alternative when the real effects of limited treatment options and rationing would be in effect here?

Proponents of socialist healthcare here never cite the realities of any of the existing "universal" systems, be it one in Britain, Canada, Sweden, France, Germany, Japan, Taiwan or anywhere else. Their proposed solution is always some nebulous utopian system were all the treatments and outcomes will of course be "equal and fair". But how can that possibly be when by its very nature all services under such a system will have to be rationed in some manner?

Nowhere in the discussion have the proponents of socialized healthcare here in the US ever mentioned that a key to the Canadian system is the use of a "premium" or a "deterrent fee" that is charged for each doctor visit. While the service is allegedly "free", these fees serve as a kind of hurdle to dampen demand (ie. ration) for unnecessary services, notably for hypocondriacs and the proverbial "little old ladies" who reason "that if its the first Tuesday of the month its time for their regular doctor visit". Their doctor visit in fact is a kind of disguised social outing, only the taxpayer gets to pay the bill. That scenario represents very real attracted costs to any socialized system that is alledgedly "free".

The best solution to address our healthcare needs here in the US is to move away from the largely "employer provided" healthcare model in place today to a true free market based system unfettered by any connection to our employers or government. Its noteworthy that under our so called "free market system", you or I cannot buy a health insurance policy across any state boundary or one that is free of most or all of the 1800+ insurance / pharmacutical / lobbyist induced government mandates that are present in virtually all policies today.

What we need is a real free market system where you as consumer can actually pick your own plan tailored to your actual needs, offered in any state, free from government meddling and special interest lobbying. A system where you are going to be treated as a real "customer" as opposed to being treated like a "passive subordinate" (patient) where you have little to no incentive to look at the actual cost of treatment options as is the case today.

When it comes to healthcare and almost everything else, there simply is no better economic / social system that's ever been invented other than true free market capitalism to deliver goods and services with the highest possible quality at the lowest possible cost.

"Actually, it would probably be cheaper, since we currently spend 16% of our GNP on health care and the next closest nation (Switzerland) only sponds 10.9& of its GNP on health care. Every other nation spends less."

And all the other nations ration. What if I don't like the rationing choices that are made? Too bad. No choices left, even if I'm willing to pay more!

"Inefficient badly run government health care, or a system where for-profit insurance companies make the decision as to what kind of coverage or services we get."

What do I want? I want a for-profit company vs. a for-election-vote politician supporting the health care system. As long as I can go to another competitor across the street, the greedy company will be held in check. Switch to a single-payer system, and there is no competition, no realistic push back on prices.

When did profit became so evil? Do you work for your company for free, or do you expect to be paid? Same thing. Politicians also expect to paid: in votes to be reelected, so they can enjoy the perks of their own healthcare system, their own alternative to Social Security, their own health gym. You name, they have their own. :)

P.S. Why haven't we created Grocery Store insurance yet for people that need food?

The keys to controlling healthcare costs are 1)immediate immigration reform, and 2) immediate tort reform. Our healthcare system is overrun with illegal immigrants receiving free ER care for minor medical problems; our doctors must pay through the nose for malpractice insurance to guard against lawsuits. Solutions? Close the border, sent illegals back to wherever they came from, and institute a "loser pays" policy with regard to any civil case; a better idea might be a "loser's attorney pays", just to keep the ambulance chasers honest.

The question used to be: Who do you want for your heart surgeon? The one who scored top in his class or the one created through affirmative action?" The point I am trying to make is that doctor's are entitled to what they earn because they are (hopefully) the brightest and the best at what they do. Your comments were right on! We will not have enough doctors and the answer will be to look overseas or lower standards. Are you listening T-shirt-doctor? The question will no longer be who do you want as your heart surgeon because government will determine if indeed you can have a heart surgeon, who it will be and how long your wait is. There will be no decisions left for the patient. By necessity we will lower standards, we will not be able to attract doctors from overseas once capitalism is destroyed.

Mike -
I don't understand why you think a practitioner can run his office on $15 copay. They have to invest in office space, insurance, malpractice insurance, high-tech equipment (an in x-ray machines, etc), computer systems, lab assistants, front office assistants, and office manager, copy machines, supplies such as masks and needles, an autoclave, a break room and supplies, toilet paper and other supplies for the restrooms, office furniture, cleaning services, a hardware tech, patient information and billing software, software support to the software company, and I'm sure I'm leaving out tons of other overhead costs. Could you pay for all these expenses and earn yourself a salary on $15 a visit?

Come on people, doctors are not going to work for peanuts, just like you wouldn't so your job for nothing.

Yeah all of us that actually work for a living pay so much more than those who don't work or pay taxes or feel that healthcare is a necessity (Cuz we all know that them cell phones are and cigs, etc).Took my daughter to ER-there 4 hours- kidney stones- gave her nothing but meds for pain via IV- bill was over $7,000! How in the world should I be paying 7 grand for 4 hours (which should have only taken 1 hour). I know exactly how!! They have to pay for all those deadbeats and illegals they never see a dime from! Then they want to call you at work asking why you have not paid yet- when you have a bill for 2 weeks after insurance covers what they do! Why is no one calling the deadbeats and throwing them in jail for not paying, yet they want to hassle those at their workplace to pay a bill that is not even overdue! If i am paying that kind of money, then I think I should get a little better service than that.

I see some are claiming that if we graduated more doctors the problem would be solved, but how do they plan to accomplish that? They must use compulsion or incentive, and those I’ve seen peddling that also indicate they are hostile to incentive. So that leaves compulsion, limiting school slots in some fields of medicine, forcing students into some slots, and compelling graduates to practice medicine (yea, that’s the person I want me and my loved ones lives to depend on), and dictating their pay. Much of that was in hillarycare, btw.

‘Greedy’ doctors aren’t what is driving up the cost of health care anyway. It is greedy lawyers, deadbeats, and government interference eating up most of my health care dollars. Paying the absurd salaries and costs of useless administrators in useless positions for the politically connected, like michelle obama, doesn’t help any either.

I'll take for-profit free market over government inefficiency any day.

Government created health care 'crisis' it sure isn't going to fix it. Loser Pays would do the most to help, freedom to tailor insurance coverage to individual needs would bring down costs second most.

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Someone has to pay for it, so I hope all these people who want free healthcare realize that NO doctor in his right mind will work for free or real cheap which is what the gov't will require- at least any good ones. Guess we will be reduced to substandard care - BUT Yippee at least it will be free...

when we have g'ment health care i will say something different.
but we don't have g'ment health care. we were talking present sense not some future that hasn't happened yet.
BRILLIANT! is not what i would you call you in the past, present, or the future. :O)

"42% of Americans say that everyone in the United States should have "free" healthcare."

... and 73% of Americans think rainwater should be beer. So what?

Ma'am,

Thank you so much for your sacrifice. I'm sure you don't hear that often enough.

Your response was so cogent and timely that I copied it and filed it away for future debates with truth-challenged liberals.

When I was in the Marine Corps, I was often amazed at how quickly I could shut up some poseur who was waxing eloquent about his knowledge of and indignation towards the military by simply sharing my own, firsthand experiences. Funny how the cockroaches scatter when the lights come on.

God bless.

@someguy

It's not taxpayers directly that are paying for the hospital's write-offs. It's the paying patients. They have to pay a lot more to make up those costs. Some of those costs are offset by the imperial government giving our tax dollars to the hospitals, but it doesn't make up the total cost they are losing from deadbeat patients.

If there is a public option, many companies would be foolish not to terminate their own plans and drop their employees into the government alternative especially if their tax rates will be hiked so they can contribute their "fair" share.

Universal health care is unconstitutional. It violates the 10th amendment. Because every single government run health care program on the planet has to ration the services and medicine to control costs, it also violates the 5th amendment's clause of "...be deprived of life...". If an expensive cancer drug is available that is known to work very well, but another, cheaper and less reliable drug is also available, which do you think your government will let you have? It won't be your doctor telling you which medicine to take. It'll be an unelected government bureaucrat.

Is this the "change we can believe in"?

My salary IS based on what the government pays (allows) for a certain code (diagnosis, or procedure). I CANNOT charge any different from that or it is FRAUD. ALL other insurance companies base their charges on what MEDICARE charges. Physicians are already highly controlled by the government.

What you all do not understand is that MEDICARE /MEDICADE (GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE) denies coverage for medications, and hospital stays ALL the TIME! You think that for a second that our government will not have to ration care worse than it is now then you are an idiot. Rationing will come in the form of denial of coverage based on cost to benefit ratio. Some changes will be welcome. We cannot spend countless dollars on futile care trying to placate a psychologically pathological family. Some will not. For example, your 84 year old mother may not be allowed a cardiac procedure because of her age. Ok, you say, she is old and frail. But what if she is not? Do you think that her physician will be a part of that decision? Nope, the likes of Nancy aka. Smiling Clown will get to decide.

So you think that you can just hire more doctors or enroll more kids in medical school? I doubt it. Perhaps you can go to a foreign country and attract a few more, maybe even lower the standards to get more into medical school. It took me 10 years to learn to be a practicing specialized physician (that is beyond a 4 year college degree). It took years for me to pay off my medical loans (no forgiveness there!) I missed family events, watched my ovaries dry up and fall from the vine and watched my friends who had real jobs buy houses and have families. In other words I watched others live.

Becoming a physician was a choice and a sacrifice. I do not make " loads of money" for what I do and I resent the implication and the “wealth envy” emotion that is undoubtedly behind that statement. I worked my ass off to get here and I still work my ass off and I enjoy being busy. (And for you PC’ers, I see a significant number of people who are down on their luck with no insurance for FREE—how many of YOU do work for someone for FREE—not just throw a few dollars to charity—actually work!) Do not think for a second that you can just go out and get just anyone to make these sacrifices--especially if there will be no financial incentive (like Osamabama and the raving idiots the want for everyone—same pay grade).

I leave you with a few thoughts: Why aren’t MEDICARE and MEDICADE more like private insurance? Private insurers are efficient make a profit (aka greedy for you libs out there), but wouldn’t that be great to have something in our government that actually worked? I know I am a dreamer.

Let the AMA start punishing the bad ones instead of circling the wagons every time a greedy MD performs unnecessary procedures.

Why would anyone want to be a doctor now, when they'll just end up as govt employees? For that matter, why would anyone consent to be treated by someone brought to you by the same folks who gave you the DMV?

Aren't you paying for all these people's healthcare? Someone shows up at a hospital emergency room, doesn't have any health coverage, who ultimately foots the bill: the taxpayer. The only difference is that instead of paying the small fees you'd pay a GP, you're paying "how the hell do they manage to cost so much"-style emergency room fees.

Doc-in-a-boxes have been gradually eating away at this, yes, but for the most part you've still got a lot of uninsured people having the taxpayer foot their bill, while the undereducated don't seem to notice just because the money is coming out in a slow bleed, rather than a big bill that actually labels what's going on.

Why Oh Why can't we ever look at things realistically? Obviously we can't save everyone from dying. What we can do is give everyone a good shot at living. I propose a subsidized (not free) system whereby every CITIZEN can see a doctor and obtain a prescription for medication with a ($15) co-payment.

Anything that cannot be treated in a general practicioners office would require the CITIZEN to care enough about their own health enough to buy a more comprehensive policy.

Those of you who are so stingy that you couldn't go along with this deserve to have to pay for whole care because you weren't smart enough to come up with a more realistic plan to present.

It is time to give up the ideal that you are not going to pay for others. The fact is YOU ARE. So, if you know you are going to , at least start coming up with some stop gaps of your own instead of being run over with your ideals.

Excuse me sir but are you dillusional? I'm just asking because you mentioned how Republicans want to control abortion and stem cell research. Let me clarify a couple of things - first of all abortion will never be illegal because the individual states wouldn't all allow it. Second, Bush only said FEDERAL dollars (i.e. your taxes) wouldn't and shouldn't be spent on stem cell research. He NEVER banned the research only the federal funding for it. Private companies and research agengies were more than welcome to do that research they just had to get the money through other means. And from personal experience I don't need or want the government telling my doctor what he can and cannot do to treat me or my family members. I suffered for over a year with a female bleeding problem. Both my doctor and I knew from the start that what I needed was an hysterectomy but because of the insurance company's involvement - because they know so much more about medicine and about my personal issues than my doctor does - we had to go through every other "treatment" before I was able to finally get relief. I had anemia and I also had to receive two units of blood BEFORE I could have my operation. If the federal government was controlling my healthcare I probably would be dead by now. No thanks, I don't need it. Let me pay for my healthcare and keep our government out of it. What have they managed to do right so far? NOTHING!!! Quit hating on Republicans so much, we're not all evil people who want to force you to have babies against your will. But if you do have babies don't make me pay to raise them.

Government controlled healthcare is a program designed for one group only - minorities. Anyone who works for a living and actually provides for their family wants absolutely nothing to do with it.
But the black and latino communities, the (give me, give me, I deserve, I want, it's my right) communities will rejoice.

Let them have it. Let them continue to wait for 3-4 hours to be examined and treated for 10 minutes. Let them wait 2 months for a specialists appointment.

You wanted it - You got it.

If we loosen up on those pesky rules about practicing medicine without a license, everyone can have free health care. Then any yahoo on the street can give out medical advice, pills or whatever. Remember, you get what your pay for.
P.S. Tell me if you've heard this one:
There's a four way intersection. Down the four roads you will see the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Free Healthcare and a Power Hungry Politician...

Which is better? Inefficient badly run government health care, or a system where for-profit insurance companies make the decision as to what kind of coverage or services we get. Remember, denied-coverage is profitable for the insurance companies. Which is better? Government inefficiency, or corporate greed dictating health care policy?
Neither is great? Maybe what we need to do is to graduate three to five times as many doctors and health care professionals than what we have currently. Let there be some real competition in the health care system.
And while we're at it, America is the only developed country that does not require employers to provide sick days. Maybe this is one reason why the Swine Flu virus seems to be spreading here. Employees, especially in the low-skill service oriented jobs cannot afford to or aren't allowed to call in sick. Who knows if that fast food cashier serving up your meal at the counter is as sick as a dog.

Get a job at UPS like me, people!

"Free" healthcare, a great workout AND YOU GET AN HOURLY SALARY!!!