There is nothing "moral" about amnesty! They are also a drain on our welfare and health system. Out they go, complete the fence. It's really not a left versus right thing or shouldn't be. EXCEPT that lefties see them as future voters. THAT is the ONLY reason they are pushing for this.

The answer to illegal immigration is absolutely amnesty (I'll use this term, because you guys seem to like it). Not only is this the most economically and morally sound option, but it's also the option giving us the least government involvement. There's no reason for any "small government" conservative to oppose it except for xenophobia. Now, a labor-oriented left leaning politician has some reason to oppose it (but he's still wrong). Even Reagan supported amnesty.

Right now, businesses like hiring illegal immigrants. This is because they can abuse them, not follow labor law standards (including minimum wage), prevent anything approaching unionization, and cheat them. And the workers have no legal recourse, because they are in danger of deportation if they complain. This makes them better employees than citizens and legal immigrants, but in a perverse, artificial way.

If we get them legal status, they will be competing on a level playing field with citizens, and they will pay all their taxes. This will limit immigration in a free market way, because there won't be an artificially high job market here for them. The only reason an (otherwise illegal) immigrant would be preferable to a citizen would be if they were a legitimately better worker. And guess what, if they are willing to work that hard to support their own success and their family, there is absolutely no reason to say they shouldn't be in this country. Someone like that is more American than many who are born here.

And, if we make it easier for workers to get into this country legally, we can focus our border policing efforts more on actual criminals.

So, yes, what we need is a strong guest worker program along with getting the people already here legal status.

For those who complain that they haven't respected our immigration law, do you expect someone to respect unfair, unenforceable, arbitrary, and ridiculously complex laws that benefit no one at the extreme expense of their families? The answer is to change those laws, not hurt us all trying to enforce them.

I just can't see how you would want to spend tons of government money futilely increasing the border patrol and building a wall that infringes on American property rights and stands as a horrid symbol against liberty.

BTW, the mass exodus a la Norte didn't start with the Bush Adminstration...it goes back a ways. And I have met some terrific folks who came here in the 70's and early 80's but were grandfathered in by the '87 Amnesty( Reagan). And I have met some more since then. The time to address it was,oh, 20 years ago or so. Not when we have so many in country that we almost can't. It is hard to get Americans to work in my industry, and nobody...that's no body, works for minmum wage in my industry except high school kids at Pikes. Even they have bills to pay, soon as they find out BK or McD's pays a quarter more an hour, they're gone. Again, trying to do things the right way is only marginally better for a business or an individual than making a run at the border and taking your chances en las Estados Unidos. Maybe it helps to know how frustrating it is for everyone involved. Then again, maybe it doesn't matter.

Too many cities are reporting that there is a large percentage of illegal aliens on welfare. There aren't enough jobs to go around. Too many won't learn english so they are limited as to what they can do. Send them back, I would rather work with Mexico on ways for THEM to improve their own economy. Send the packing.

"if you voted Mccain...
...then really there is no logical way for you to disagree with Obama and his amnesty plan"

Well that's a pretty weak argument. That would presume that the only reason one voted for McCain was because of his stance on illegal immigration. How about if I disagree with both of them on this topics but picked McCain over Obama because McCain isn't a socialist? Would that make my vote legitimate in your eyes? I can most certainly complain about a stupid Obama policy even if the fellow I voted for shared it. Had McCain won, I would be opposed to amnesty for illegals as well. Geez people...use your brains for something other than holding up your hairdo.

Where do I apply to get the $2000 that I spent on getting all the relevant paperwork, and traveling to all the interviews. If they PAY and PASS ALL interviews and tests then let them stay.

You are probably right. But that is so sad. Even if we do find a successful true conservative, we will not be allowed to undo the 14 million that will then be "grandfathered" in.

Oh and for those that don't see the harm, LA Times had a report a few months ago. In it they said out of the millions in their county only 2% of them actually worked in the agriculture business as so many say we need them for. Of the rest, 40% (FORTY) were on welfare.

Do we really want these people to stay?

Chuck, I would like to shake your wife's hand!!!

4/9/2009

Get these scumbags out of this country now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, McCain was all for amnesty but at least he begrudgingly conceded to building a border fence. Somehow, I doubt Barry will propose the same. Keep in mind that when you are speaking of 12 million workers, you are leaving out all the women and children so the number is probably closer to 30. I don't think even Geraldo disputes that.

Enjoy people!

I'm all good with illegals, as long as they're women who are at least 7's on a scale between 1 and 10.

I have an idea for a new reality show. Basically, there would be hidden cameras at the border. Viewers would call in a ranking from 1-10 on each female invader. Women ranked 1-6 get rounded up and catapaulted back across the border. 10's get instant amnesty, but 7's, 8's, and 9's would have to mud-wrestle in an elimination match. The winner gets amnesty.

Chuck, these people are gonna have to jump through hoops, fill out forms, wait for years, pay a bunch of money before they become citizens just as your wife did. Neal needs to read the definition of a libertarian again...
And with any candidate - whether it's McCain or anyone else - if you're a thinking human being, you're not gonna agree on everything. Did everyone who voted for Bush second time around agree with out of control government spending? The reality of it is, that even in this economy, we STILL have jobs Americans don't want to do - they'd rather wait for that government check and watch their soaps all day long. At least Illegal immigrants are hard workers, who simply want a better life. I say - send all the welfare people to Mexico, and legalize all of the Illegals.

As someone who has worked in Human Resources for YEARS, I do not understand why there is all this fuss over enforcing immigration laws with regard to employing illegal aliens. For every new employee, we are REQUIRED BY LAW to obtain proof of identity as well as proof of ability to LEGALLY work in the US. If we can't verify that, we cannot employ the individual. We are REQUIRED to document this information and to provide this information to the government. Then it is up to the government what they are going to do about it. So anyone who says it is somehow discriminatory or racist to complete the form I-9 for new employees, needs to refresh their memory about the law. For the past 30 years I have been wondering which part of ILLEGAL alien these people don't understand!

Anyone who voted for Ron Paul put their vote towards someone who had no chance of becoming president and thus only helped BO become president. Therefore they can't complain about anything since helped him get elected.

Listen, get off it. Its America, people can complain about whatever they want, no matter who they voted for or if they voted at all.

And anyone who voted for McCain despite his 'moderate' side would have fought him just the same on these issues as well.

As a McCain voter, I can say that I look at the totality of programs and what each person wanted to do as President. There were several things I did not like about McCain, but there is almost nothing I like about Obama's policies.

I voted for Bush the second time around because of his stand on taking it to the terrorists. I did not care for several of his programs, but I had to weigh those disagreements and they were less important than keeping us safe from terrorists.

Red I hear ya, but that didn't happen, Paul is not in office and we cannot let these ILLEGAL ALIENS become citizens or get amnesty. Now can we just deal with THIS issue?

...then really there is no logical way for you to disagree with Obama and his amnesty plan, because Mccain had the same exact plan.In fact Mccain spearheaded the effort to do away with the rule of law and reward criminal behavior, if you remember correctly with his amnesty plan. If you voted for Mccain then you voted in FAVOR of amnesty, there's no 2 ways about it. So again, ANY Mccain voter who opposes Obama on his horrid reward illegal aliens with amnesty idea would simply be swimming in irony. Neal Im looking at you also bud. Mccain voters really should not complain on this one since they obviously were in favor of amnesty(and bailouts) by voting Mccain. They could have easily voted Ron Paul who was against both.