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Today's Nuze

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Nobody's listening.

THE HOUSE GETS ITS BONUS TAX -- UNCONSTITUTIONAL

By
Neal Boortz
@ March 20, 2009 8:20 AM
Permalink | Comments (123) | TrackBacks (0)

Yesterday's vote in the House was completely expected. Overwhelmingly, your representatives in Washington voted huge taxes on bonuses for AIG employees. Nancy Pelosi said, "We want our money back and we want our money back now for the taxpayers." Funny .. after recently passing a bill with more than 8,000 earmarks worth over $400 billion, the hollow-eyed hippy from Haight-Ashbury and her flying monkeys are suddenly worried about the taxpayers.

First point. It is not "their" money. The money, whether you like it or not, belongs to the people to whom they were paid. Those bonuses were paid pursuant to a valid contract and are now the rightful and legal property of the payees. Let's us also remember that the amount paid in those bonuses was less than one-tenth of one percent of the bailout money received by AIG. Remember, though ... politicians believe that ever penny you earn actually belongs to the government. In the official language of Washington any money from your paycheck that these political hacks allow you to keep is a "tax expenditure." You earned it ... but if you're allowed to keep it they treat it as a government expenditure. To the Democrat mind, and in the mind of all too many Republicans, all wealth is owned by government. Produced by the people, but owned by government.

Second point. This is absolutely unconstitutional. Con su permisio I'll explain.

So the House succeeded in passing a 90% tax on bonuses given to employees of AIG and any company receiving at least $5 billion in bailout money. But only with those evil rich employees whose family income is above $250,000 a year will have to pay this 90% tax.

You just cannot like what you're seeing here. These politicians are targeting specific individuals out there who have received some money that the politicians, for political purposes, just do not want them to have. So they pass a law allowing the government to seize that money. Can you imagine where this goes from here? How about Ann Coulter? She delights in writing books that just irritate the ever-luvin' puddin' out of Democrats and liberals. Let's say that one of Nancy Pelosi's flying monkeys reports to the Princess that Coulter made $1.5 million from her last book. This money was legally paid to Coulter pursuant to a contract. Sound familiar? But Pelosi feels that Coulter has made this money by promoting divisiveness in the population, so she decides that punishment is in order. She then has her minions pass a bill establishing a 90% tax on the royalties from all books and writings that promote political dissention and defame public servants in the Congress of the United States. Come on now, you tell me the big huge difference between a confiscatory tax on legally earned bonuses and one on legally received book royalties.

This is going nowhere folks. It will never make it through the Senate. If the members of the House had any appreciation at all for the Constitution it wouldn't have gone this far. And why, pray tell, would that be? That would be because of one pesky little clause found in our (once) supreme law of the land.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 5 - United States Constitution

"No bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."

Do you know what that means? The key is the word "attainder." Let's go to Websters: It's a 15th century word meaning "extinction of the civil rights and capacities of a person upon sentence of death or outlawry usually after a conviction of treason." A definition, this one from the Catholic Encyclopedia, describes "bill of attainder" thusly: "A bill of attainder may be defined to be an Act of Parliament for putting a man to death or for otherwise punishing him without trial in the usual form. Thus by a legislative act a man is put in the same position as if he had been convicted after a regular trial."

Well, in this case the Congress isn't trying to put anyone to death ... they're just trying to steal some money. They are trying to deprive some individuals of property that is rightfully and lawfully theirs without accusing them of a crime and without the benefit of any trial ... except, that is, for this trial that has been taking place in the media for the last week. Well, there's that pesky little Constitution again. A man cannot be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process, and in our country due process means a trial before a jury of one's peers. Barney Frank et al are trying to take these people's money through legislative action without a trial. I would truly hope there isn't a federal judge in this country that wouldn't smack this idiocy down at the earliest opportunity.

This isn't about whether or not those people deserved those bonuses. Perhaps not. But the bonuses were paid pursuant to a legally enforceable contract. The property is theirs. Now we have politicians who are trying to take it away just because they're unhappy and embarrassed because they didn't take care of this little problem before the bailout money was paid.

On to the Senate. Let's hope someone over there has read the Constitution.



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What others are saying

  • Reason for paying these bonuses
    Last year when the AIG problem first surfaced and these retention bonuses were put in place they had a $2.7trillon dollar problem. Now the same people who were doing what they are asked to do in creating and selling these stupid investments, were paid to help resell them. They have lowered the problem by $1.1trillon so far. That means now it's only a $1.6trillon dollar problem. And we also are only owed $76billion by AIG the rest of their bailout is still sitting in accounts unused but on their books as collateral against the bad assets to help them appear solvent and stay in business. Why is that important? We want them to sell the rest of the problem.

    One thing that was totally out of line was paying the people who invested with them in this crap par for it. I would have been offering 10cents on the dollar take it or get nothing. I heard all this in the later testimony on C-Span and have yet to read it anywhere in the media.
  • Wasn't This Why We Broke from UK in the First Place?
    Wasn't unfair taxation one of the primary issues that caused our initial break with England? How far we've come in a little over 230 year. I suppose the "progressive" Dems in the House would fail to see the irony in such tyrannical hypocrisy. I’m sure glad they’re looking out for the common man and making sure government is “fair” to all involved.
  • 100.498% tax
    Yeah... I just did the math. Given the numbers I could find, the full income tax rate on that AIG bonus will be OVER 100%. This means that these guys will OWE the government MORE than they received. Now that... is WRONG.

    Here's the breakdown:

    Fed Tax: 90%
    NY Tax: 6.85%
    NYC Tax: 3.648%
    ---------------
    Total: 100.498%

    How in the HELL is this "fair" and just? Do we want to take the chance that the Gov't won't one day treat us the same way?

    Oh... go ahead and scream about their massive deductions. Remember, Obama has already promised to take those away as well. 100.498% tax. We better hope that the "less fortunate" don't have to endure that. Oh wait... after this, next year those AIG people will be the among the "less fortunate". The only thing was that they WERE actually "less fortunate" and had their money stolen from them.
  • Princess Pelosi
    Neal you say "Let's say one of the flying monkeys reports to the princess"

    Please strike princess from now on and say "flying monkeys report to the WITCH"
  • Red Herrings, Ad Hominems, and Straw Men
    Remove these three fallacies from this article and what do you have left? Punctuation marks.

    The first paragraph has this sentence:

    "Funny .. after recently passing a bill with more than 8,000 earmarks worth over
    $400 billion, the hollow-eyed hippy from Haight-Ashbury and her flying monkeys
    are suddenly worried about the taxpayers."

    This is a doozy, for it contains two fallacies in a single sentence. The red herring and the ad hominem. Normally I would not
    continue to read anything like this, whether from the right or left, because I have found that when a writer begins with
    garbage, they never leave the trash can. Boortz continues this deception when he finally gets to the actual topic, about halfway
    through the article he quotes the constitution and then states:

    "Well, in this case the Congress isn't trying to put anyone to death ...
    they're just trying to steal some money. They are trying to deprive some individuals of
    property that is rightfully and lawfully theirs without accusing them of a crime and without the benefit of any trial ... "

    This is the straw man. Taxation is not stealing, and is not necessarily punitive.
    We are all "deprived of property" when we pay taxes without ever standing trial. Taxation is a function of the
    legislative body, not the judicial. It is interesting that they settled on 90%, that happens to
    be the top tax bracket in the U.S. during the 1940's and 50's, so this rate is not unprecedented.
    Congress can legally tax if it is for regulatory or fiscal reasons. And given the fact that
    this money came from congress in the form of a bailout because of AIG's disastorous and irresponsible
    business practices, it would be difficult to prove the intent was punative and not regulatory or fiscal.
    Boortz jumped to the assumption that this was punitive without ever bothering to prove it.
  • Back in Oz
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I guess the Speaker decided to get attention off her comments on illegal immigrants by focusing attention on the evil rich. It would be interesting to compare the ammount of bonus money compared to how much it costs the Air Force to transport her in her preferred mode of travel for one year.
  • AIG Taxes
    Where does it stop. Now congress (U.S. House of Representatives) wants to single out individuals for taxes. First AIG employees. Who is next. If this passes then no one is safe. I don't like the bonuses and Golden Parachutes, but then I also didn't like the fact that our representatives in government decided to effect the outcome of bad business decisions by companies that should have know better to start with. The government should not be in the business of deciding who fails and who prospers. The whole bailout has been a fiasco from the beginning.
  • AIG
    Over 50 years ago, capitalist in congress grilled and investigated communists. Today we see communists grilling capitalists. Just tit-for-tat I guess.
  • AIG
    Funny. The bailut was to enable AIG to fulfill it's contracts. These bonuses were contracts. Actually if congress wanted to control the bail out, all they needed to do was read the bill and discuss the bill before voting on it. Legislative incompetence is the reason for this.
  • AIG payout
    It may be illegal to tax back the taxes but it's time imcompetence at ALL levels of capitalism be rewarded accordingly. Send a message. Take the money back and give hope to the majority of Americans.
  • Purposeful provocation.
    I'm starting to see a pattern here.

    It appears that the Obama Administration and Dem controlled Congress is trying to provoke an uprising, so Obama can declare Martial Law. Once he has that, his AG will order firearms confiscations. They figure that once we're unarmed they can get away with anything then.

    Problem is, There's to many gun owners in this country. We would out number the military, who more than likely will not follow Obama's orders to fire on American citizens. If they finally get a violant rise out of the "People", they better be catching the first plane out of the country, cuz I don't think many folks are going to be very interested in "taking prisoners"
  • House Bonus Tax
    How about adding another amendment to this bill and tax the 2.8% raise that that Congress gave themselves this year at the same 90% rate just like the bonuses? Granted their raise only amounted to a $4,700 pay increase per representative but the total cost born by taxpayers is an additional $2.5 million that could (and should be) saved.
  • AIG Wrong Target for Rage
    If we're going to "lynch" anyone, let's make sure we have the right necks to stretch.

    All this rage aimed at AIG and other institutions over bonuses is aimed at the wrong target. The proper target is the Federal Government. Since the 20's the Feds have been intervening in times of recession when they shouldn't. Why do we expect the government to fix things when it has the worst record of inefficiency of any entity?

    http://mises.org/story/2902

    The government didn't use to interfere when the economy took a down turn, and things had a knack for correcting itself and recovering in short time. And because corporate and businesses knew that they had no "safety net" to catch them when they messed up, they were more careful in their business models. They knew back then that if they got careless and got themselves in a jam, they'd have to bite the bullet on their own.

    Not anymore! Since the Hoover days and his and FDR's economic interventions, which caused the recession of the 20's become a full depression that lasted longer than it should have, corporate heads no longer see a need to be so cautious. They are willing to take higher risk, in fact, government has encouraged them to do so, promising to back them if things don't work out. If Corporate America didn't have this safety net, we wouldn't see these crazy high salaries and bonuses, or the outrageous severance packages that some of these CEO's and exec's get when they leave the company.

    If we want to be enraged with anyone it needs to be the government. Let's gather a lynch mob on the steps of Congress and on the White House lawn. Better yet, let's hold a good old fashion "tar and feather" party for these government bandits.

    Let's leave the AIG folks alone. They might not have had those salary and bonus contracts if government had never gotten involved.
  • AIG Fraud enables Fed Govt
    Also, as to honoring the contract - if the bonuses were paid due to fraudulent transaction in the derivatives market, which is good argument re: AIG, then the contracts paying out based on the fraud are void in the first place.
  • Con Law
    Seems there was this Con Law prof on Foxnews that said the Fed Govt is not subjected to many of these issues in this instance as they apply to dealings with the states and criminal law - and since the bonuses were paid and enabled by fed funds, and may have been zero without fed funds, then they can be targeted - the big fear is that the Fed Govt CAN do this if so inclined, and it is the inclination to enact this type of legislation that should freak the crap out of everyone that achieves in our society.

    http://nymike.blogtownhall.com
  • Shock
    When I read about this happening yesterday, I was in complete shock. I can't believe that something like this is happening in the United States. Regardless of where you stand on this whole AIG fiasco, everything was done, at least on AIG's end, legally. These people who received these bonuses should not be targeted like this, and this is nothing more than illegal seizure of assets by the federal government.
  • Nervous Democrats
    Some Washington Democrats have got to be starting to get nervous and scared about what's going on. This is gonna be political suicide for them unless they put a halt to this debacle of Obama's.
  • Charade
    Mark my words. I will wager almost anything that this is still part of controlled grandstanding to deflect democrat incompetence when it comes to the economy. The house dems likely already have an agreement with the Senate dems that they will pass the bill for hype reasons knowing that the Senate democrats will not allow it to pass.

    They have the arrogance to assume that all of us are as stupid as those in the Florida district that elected the dolt that took the floor to recognize the UF football team.

    Jim
  • Copyleft
    Copyleft, I can see you're still a booger eating liberal as usual. You're defending taxes??? I bet you would defend a terrorist that hit the World Trade Center too, dillweed.
  • AIG Bonus
    I think what a lot of people are not realizing is that the Federal G'ment set up AIG in this fiasco. After the Fanie Mays and Freddie Macs and their wonderful friends in Washington made all these bad loans then basicly forced AIG to pick these up and sell them to back them with cash (which China is one of the largest buyers). Then as previously mentioned they knew these bonuses were in there and now are screaming about them. This is another ruse to get everyones attenttion away from the pork bill and the messiahs falling ratings.
  • We the people...
    It's like palying a board game with a first grader...the rules just kinda change as the game goes on and no matter what, the outcome will favor the first grader...or else! Let's just play til everybody gets so tired, they're not paying attention and then whammo! If I have to listen to another Congress man fake out rage and disgust, I'm going to be sick. It's like John Kerry and his "I was for it before I was against it..." routine in 2004. If you buy into this, shame on you. If you voted for these jokers, back to the children's table with your dinners! We the people are p'o'ed! When we have had enough,( sooner than you think ) start packing up the mementos of your political careers! Make those bus reservations for your one way tickets home. Coach wants to see you, bring your playbooks!
  • AIG Bonus
    I stand with Neal. The bonuses should stand, they were under contract to give them. Congress has NO right to step between AIG and their employees.
  • #10
    It all stems from dishonoring the 10th commandment - Thou shalt not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

    All weath envy stems from breaking this commandment. Our gov't has only fueled the fire then used it to burn us all.
  • Sick
    I contacted my Congressman, and two senators on tuesday demanding that they not "steal" the bonus payments from the employees that earned them by virtue of their contracts.

    Save all the rhetoric; this is a diversion - trust me it is. Look around to see what else is being stolen or trampled upon? illegal immagration?

    Factually, I don't like large bonuses; I think they are disgusting; (but I also agree that let the two parties negoctiate what they will and then live by it!) So; however troubling they were they are earned and owed (yes EARNED and OWED).
    As I wrote the other day - this is an Abuse of Power by Nancy the Fish and her cronies. Its disgusting.

    I applaud Mr. Liddy for taking up for his employees. I would gladly work for an individual like that. But, if these agreements and others won't be honored or be demonized by the wicked congress (and MOB mentality) then why as an employee would I stay? Screw that! I'd be out just as soon as I could find a landing spot; and I'll take all my vacation and sickdays doing it (quietly and professionaly) Essentially, those congressional idiots - will have caused the employees at AIG to "check out" mentally. That is stupid.

    As for naming names.... for what purpose? Are you going to audit them? Ruin their lives by having the press camp out infront of their homes? Pester their children? Interview their school teachers? and may mockeries out of good hard working individuals.
    Okay, so you say... no i only want the names of the people that put us in this place to start with... okay great - you be the judge and jury and executioner?? that is dumb. Why? Because the swaps and hedging (third party risk) most was tied to debt that became devalued because of the credit market collapse ARS's (Auction Rate Securities) that was directly caused by the housing bubble that was caused by JIMMY CARTER; FRANKLIN REINS, Bubba FRANK, etc. etc.

    A sad day in the new USSA
  • AIG tax is a diversion from the real crime here.
    I don't trust liberals either, but you're missing the point here.

    Liberals are bullying AIG to divert attention from Fannie/Freddie bailout-funded corporate bonuses, which are 3-5 times as much. Nothing more. They're just punishing their political enemies while protecting their constituents.
  • Tony, you miss the point
    It's not that the John Galt types will remove themselves from society, and to your amusement have to deal with setting up an ever-growing government.

    It's that the John Galt types are being PUSHED out of society, and to my amusement our ever-growing government will find itself unable to pay for the bread & circuses precisely because the net bulk of taxpayers were driven out.
  • Doesn't just effect AIG employees
    The way this bill was written doesn't simply punish those that caused the financial mess as the mob is suggesting (i.e the small number of people that caused the demise of AIG).

    If enacted, this could help to destroy all of the healthy parts of the banks that the government appears to want to actually keep around (JPMorgan, Bank of America, Citi, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc.).

    For example let's just say there is a small bond trading desk at say JPMorgan that has 3 employees on it and made an annual profit in 2008 of $125 million. Because it was a bad year for the whole financial industry last yr, the senior trader with ~10 yrs experience was likely paid ~$1mm ($150k base + $850k bonus), the mid-level trader probably made $700k ($135k base + $565k bonus), and the Junior Trader with ~3 yrs experience probably made $300k ($100 base + $200 bonus). Total comp for all 3 guys combined was $2mm but recall that they provided $125mm of profit for the bank.

    Under this legislation, all of the bonuses will be wiped out and the base salary will still be taxed at roughly 50% after NY city and state taxes. because the bonus got them into the highest tax bracket.

    If these traders are so good that they have been able to make $125mm of profit for the bank in a tough year, they will simply take there show down the street to Deutsche Bank or Credit Suisse or any other hedge fund to be compensated at market rates for the same job.

    This will certainly lead to a "brain drain" out of the US banks and into the foreign banks where the best employees will self select themselves out. Those left behind at the US banks will only be the sub-par professionals that weren't good enough to get out.
  • Misdirection
    Maybe the AIG executives didn't deserve their bonuses. Maybe. Keep in mind, a single Yankees player makes more than all these bonuses added up to altogether- it's a mere pitance in the grand scheme of things..but the abuses of Congress while we're all going on this insane wealth envy trip is just scary. They do little more than line their birdcages with the Constitution. They certainly are not holding it up as the rule of law. Focus your anger more productively. If we can get Congress to behave, stop bailing out failing organizations, start upholding the Constitution and shrinking the size of government, we'll be a whole lot better off. This wealth envy, class warfare nonsense will just be the end of us all.
  • Hang together or hang separately
    The truest test of character is standing by your principles when they work against you. It may sound strange but we as Americans must stand with these executives and defend them from Bills of Attainder.

    I'm not happy about this situation anymore than you guys, but if we don't defend them now who will defend us when it's our ass on the line?
  • Out Of Control and Out Of Line
    I just wrote Joe Lieberman. We all need to contact our Senators before they vote. They are wrong, out of line, and out of control. This is completely illegal. This is what I wrote, just copy and paste it on your Senators link at www.senate.gov.

    Mr. Senator,

    The House of Representative just broke the law with thier passing of this AIG tax.

    We have law in this country Senator, it's called the Constitution.

    The Representatives and You (the Senators) have no right to break it!!!!

    The broke this:

    Article 1, Section 9, Clause 5 - United States Constitution

    "No bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."

    This is outrageous!!!!

    Stop standing still America.
  • John
    John,

    I like your theoretical assumptions about sloppy left being gay or transvestite along with the analogies.

    Just one problem. It's not believable. There's no way Democrats would decide they don't like gays or transvestites. Here's a more reasonable analogy;

    Let's assume sloppy left is a hunter and he kills Bambi. The democrats definitely don't like this, so they decide to tax him 95% for killing Bambi and another 95% for owning a gun.

    Oh, my bad. This too is not believable. Sloppy left would never do anything manly...
  • AIG
    How is any of this different from a lynch mob?
  • John Galt was pushed.
    If anyone needs help being pushed let me know. I would love to see a social experiment the likes of Galt. It would be fun to see libertarians run up against things like an ever expanding government. It would even be better to listen to them try and explain any economic shortcomings. I mean after all the magical market is so great, even with a demand for a libertarian society and all the goods and services it requires....there isnt one. Maybe libertarians should listen to the market a little closer and hear what its saying, John Galt is fiction for a reason.
  • Wrong clause
    It's Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3, not clause 5 - at least according to my handy Iphone Constitution App...
  • violation of the oath of office.
    in my opinion all those that voted for this bill have violated their oath of office to defend the constitution of the united states by deliberatley voting for something that is unconstitutional.

    What is the punishment for the violation of this oath? Nothing??

    I want a list of names.. just like barney frank does.. except this time its my right as a citizen to know who the people are that voted for this so that the american people can subpoena them in the form of VOTING THEM OUT OF OFFICE.
  • How is this diferent
    How is this different than all the legislation that is passed to protect a few by giving tax brakes for what ends up being one individual
  • Abuse of Power by Congress is the REAL ISSUE!
    Let’s look at the facts. Congress gave AIG money. They did not put any legal or contractual restrictions on this company. AIG has a contract to pay these bonuses. They pay the bonuses. Now congress is using its power to go after a SMALL GROUP of people who have not broken any laws.

    Now do I think that AIG should have gotten the money in the first place? No, they should have been allowed to go into Bankruptcy. If they had gone into bankruptcy, the bonuses would have never been paid to anyone that was involved with the company going down. But that did not happen. Do I like the fact that AIG paid these bonuses? No, I believe bonuses should be based on performance but that is not how the contract was written. So AIG paid the bonuses, Right or wrong. If wrong it should be taken to a COURT OF LAW. And if they find the Bonuses where wrong then by all means they should be paid back. But this should be determined by a Court not the Congress.

    Now the REAL ISSUE here is that Congress is not happy with this. So they decide to use their power to be judge and jury. They write a LAW to attack these people. They used their POWER TO TAX to punish these people because they DO NOT LIKE THEM.

    Now this should scare even you Copyleft. What gives congress the right to pass laws on people because they DO NOT LIKE what they have done? For the sake of argument, let’s say Copyleft is GAY. Only a man can make him happy. Now along comes congress, they decide that we do not like GAY PEOPLE, Copyleft. Being Gay is not against the law, right Copyleft. You broke no laws LOVING YOUR MAN, but congress just doesn’t like it. So they decide that they are going to TAX the gays at 100% until they are gone. Or how about this. Copyleft is a Transvestite. There is NO law that says you can not be a transvestite. A man wearing Dresses or woman’s underwear is not against the law. But Congress decides one day that, we do not like Copyleft wearing women’s cloths. So, we are going to tax Copyleft and his Transvestite friends at 95% until they change or go away.

    So everyone, please look at the bigger picture. The Bonuses were not against the law, they may not be ethically or morally correct in this case but no laws were broken. Congress on the other hand to use their power to focus on a Small group that did not break any laws is a MAJOR ISSUE.
  • No due process for terrorists, #9
    Enemy combattants captured overseas, not wearing the uniform of a nation, are not subject to treatments accorded under the Geneva conventions.

    "Due process" afforded under the Constitution (the same one you libs are desecrating with the AIG bonus theft) does not apply as these combattants have been apprehended on foreign battlefields in combat by U.S. forces.

    These prisoners will be tried, convicted and executed by military tribunals just as the Nazi criminals were in Nuremburg.

    Furthermore, providing aid and comfort to enemies of the U.S.A. is treason. And your comments suggest that you are either a) a Muslim jihadist terrorist/supporter/operative or b) an enemy of the U.S.A.

    Which is it?
  • OBAMA'S $500,000. BOOK DEAL 4 DAYS B4 SWEARING IN.
    TAX OBAMANATION FOR CHILDREN'S ADVANCE OF $500,000.00 4 DAYS BEFORE GETTING SWORN IN TO KING.
  • Vhat are deir names?
    If the government gets the names of the people who got bonuses there is NO question that list will become public. When this happens someone, either on the list or their families, will be attacked and hurt, if not killed. I can just see an angry mob raiding one of these peoples houses and taking everything.

    I just hope this doesn't trigger nation wide riots. Just think if all looters decide they are going to take what they want...

    Maybe I'm just paranoid. I just get the feeling something big and ugly is about to happen.
  • bill of attainder
    How is this any different from the Alternative Minimum Tax? That was created to punish a tiny number of taxpayers and swelled to grotesque proportions. ALT has been used for years w/o being unconstitutional, so I believe the same precedent will also be applied here.
  • It's a Smokescreen for the Consumer and Business Lending Initiative
    This is what happened on March 18 behind the impenetrable "transparency" of our current government while our elected officials have been fanning the smokescreen of AIG bonuses:

    “The Fed and the Treasury are starting a joint venture this week called the Consumer and Business Lending Initiative … will start out with $200 billion in financing for consumer loans, small business loans and some corporate purposes … they hope to expand the program in April … both the Fed and Treasury hope the program will eventually provide up to $1 trillion in total financing.”

    By printing another $1 trillion to buy securities from the Treasury, the Federal Reserve is putting us on the path to hyperinflation … and no one in government or the media is even talking about this last ditch and very alarming development?
  • Tax politician speeches
    Why don't they tax the fees that the politicians get for speeches? Former Pres Clinton was paid over $10M for one speech. He doesn't need it... so TAX IT AT 90%
  • re:Unconstitutional
    @Libertarian42
    "Those prisoners you are referring to are not US citizens and not in US territory, therefore the US Constitution does not apply"

    That's a pretty poor excuse for torture and lack of due process.

    "it's a state issue; not a constitutional one."
    This is true and just as it should be.
    But if a same-sex couple were married in CT or MA, then by Article IV, Section 1 it *should* be respected in other jurisdictions as much as any other marriage.
  • Bill of Attainder
    There is legal precidence for "bills of attainder", e.g. applicable to men in general (the infamously sexist "Violence Against Women Act") and white men in particular(gender/ethnic-based affirmative action). If the federal government can impose a "bill of attainder" on white males it can impose bills of attainder on anyone.
  • Read the bill!!!
    Apparently, Senator Dodd added a loophole to the stimulus bill that allows bonuses to be paid. So, they have themselves to blame for not reading the bill before voting on it. They were duped by one of their own.

    I say throw every last one of the bums out at the next election. They're all a bunch of lying, stealing, conniving crooks!
  • AIG
    The media is screwing this thing up as much as congress did. Neal is also missing this point and it is the most crucial one. In the stimulus Dodd did not put in an exemption ALLOWING bonuses to be paid, it MANDATED they had to be paid based on the contract. If AIG did not pay they would have been in breach of contract and the LAW of the United States of America as created by the "stimulus", required those bonuses to be paid. It would have been ILLEGAL for them to not pay. The exact language of the stimulus, created and not read by congress and signed and not read by the president reads exactly as follows:

    "'(iii) The prohibition required under clause (i) shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment REQUIRED to be paid pursuant to a written employment contract executed on or before February 11, 2009, as such valid employment contracts are determined by the Secretary or the designee of the Secretary."

    The media is saying that Mr. Dodd but in an exemption allowing the bonuses to happen. That is a lie, the exemption required those bonuses to be paid by contract. So congress wants to punish AIG for not breaking the law? I get they are greedy irresponsible people, but this time it’s actually not their fault. Congress should be punishing themselves for outright stupidity, and obama should accept the blame for putting his name to something he did not read.
  • Underlying Cause
    For you all who are appalled by bonuses, do you even have a clue why these bonuses became so popular?

    In 1993, Clinton signs the Revenue Reconciliation Act, which basically says that if you want to compensate an employee for over $1M, if you didn't use a bonus, you wouldn't be allowed to deduct it for tax purposes. In other words, it encouraged companies to pay using bonuses.
  • Funny how all of a sudden....
    politicians are wrapping themselves around the taxpayers to make a point. Where have you been all this time?
  • Endangering lives
    I'm not an attorney but it would appear from the hearing with AIG's Liddy and slobbering, stuttering, ass-clown Barney and company that the Members of the U.S. Congress would like to intentionally cause bodily harm to those whose were paid bonuses. I would sue Barney and Grassley, etc. for intentionally and wrecklessly endangering lives due to inciting attacks of of bodily harm on them and their families by releasing their names and addresses for the purpose of public ridicule in the face of known threats.

    It would be like the police telling everyone the name and address of a witness/informant being hunted down by a gang for revenge.

    Of course the suit would have to be brought forth on statements made outside of the hearing from press statements, etc. They hide behind their nameplates in the committee rooms.
  • Bill of Attainder
    They upheld RICO laws which seize property and put the burden of proof on the defendant. So what is to stop thyem here
  • Fundamentally flawed but. . . .
    I would agree with Neal's analogy between AIG execs getting bonuses and Ann Coulter. . .were we bailing out Ann Coulter as well. It's a fine point, but I don't think the founding fathers provisioned for bailing out colossal multinational insurance corporations. Since the company is now effectively nationalized ("we the people" own 79% of it), under what circumstances does the government have to honor contractual obligations it didn't make?
    And had we let AIG fail, would any of those contracts been honored anyways? Ann Coulter is not frittering away my tax dollars. AIG is. Just saying.

    That said, I think the tax measure is a scary idea: extremely politicized, and if they succeed in recouping bonuses this way, it will fling open the doors to other tax-grabs in the future. But everyone knows that. . .
  • Impeachment
    Impeachment is only for "high crimes and misdemeanors." They all took an oath to uphold the constitution (not the government) of the United States. Does breaking that oath qualify as "disdemeanors"?
  • Constitution
    @Revolution#9

    Those prisoners you are referring to are not US citizens and not in US territory, therefore the US Constitution does not apply.

    As for gay marriage, it's a state issue; not a constitutional one.
  • bonus payments
    I leave the legalities to you experts. The salient point is that once we doled out the bail out money we were committed to saving AIG, we sought Mr Liddy from retirement to make it happen, he reviewed the bonuses with the administration and laws were passed to authorize payment of these retention bonuses. Mr Liddy who is the only person involved without a monetary stake in the saving of taxpayers money believes that these employees were critical in undoing the complicated mess that AIG created. All were given specific tasks to complete to the satisfaction of the company after which the were to be paid the bonus. These people are not postal clerks but highly skilled financial experts who know they will not have a job when they complete their work. The best have probably already received other offers of employment. Why jeopardize trillions for less that one tenth of a per cent of the total involved. We are governed by a bunch of politicians who have never run any kind of a business, who are running from a frenzied mob that they continue to inflame.
  • From a universally reliable source (wikipedia.org - article on ex post facto law):
    Are you freaking kidding me. Wikipedia is a joke
  • "So this is how liberty dies
    ... with thunderous applause." --Padme Amidala

    Yes, the masses are going to be applauding Congress for moving swiftly. Just wait until they come for you with the carbon tax. No-one will speak for you (unless Rush goes Galt, and starts hosting a pirate radio station!)
  • I agree with you!
    I completely agree with you Neal! There are too many Bed wetting, anti-capitalists out there that don't care what kind of precedent this is setting. We need to return to values of individualism and worry about themselves instead of allowing Government to dictate what someone can earn, and make laws against the Minority.

    The danger are people willing to Give Government power over us. This is one reason I support the FairTax with as much fervor as I do, Get the Government out of my pocket, Get them out of our everyday lives!

    AIG had contracts, and Government and these bed wetters don't even know how to keep a promise and do some people word is bond. Throw Personal Responsibility out the window, and this is what you get. The "Fairness" mentality, take money away from those that earn it, even if it is under contract. It doesn't matter to them. If you don't believe in Personal Responsibility, how can you believe in Contract Law? These are the same type of people that want Government to bail out their mess, those that don't pay their Debts!
  • Will of all Progressive Citizens
    We already had our Trotskyites (you figure it out)

    Now it looks like we'll go after the Kulak Class.
  • It seems the Congress realizes that they made a mistake, giving AIG our money. Now they have to correct that mistake without admitting they made one! :) Typical of their way of living.
  • Hypocrites
    Let me see if I have this right... In the middle of a recession a handful of executives running a private business vote to pay themselves bonuses -- that's evil. But in the middle of a recession a handful of US congresspeople vote themselves raises -- that's OK. Congresspeople are saviors of the people, but the business execs are pariahs?

    Methinks thou dost protest too loud.
  • Preparing
    There's lots of vocal discontent obviously regarding the decisions, actions, attitude of the new administration. And IMHO for good reason. I wonder how far the outrage towards the current administration will go before the bullets start flying.
  • They are already doing it . . .
    All 50 states and the federal government are ALREADY violating this part of the constitution daily. Tens of thousands of US citizens are being affected every day.

    How? Sex offender laws and registries. People are placed on these registries, are told where they can and cannot live, forced from jobs they have held for years, and carry a significant financial burden because of the out-of-control sex offender laws in the US.

    There is no due process given and the majority of people on the registries are being punished again long after they have served their sentences. I said this many years ago and I’ll say it again now. The sex offender laws we currently have and are embracing are a way to break down the constitution . . . slowly but surely. They allow legal precedents to be set that will propagate into other areas.

    I have no problems with sex offender registries and laws – but anyone placed on a registry or told where they can’t live or work MUST be given due process and have their day in court BEFORE those things are forced upon them. If we continue down the road we are on it won’t be long before anyone that the government labels as “dangerous” will also lose their right to due process.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Bonus
    The feds already get 38% (35% marginal tax plus 2.9% Medicare) back, add 7% NY State and 3-4% NYC and $90M out of the $195M already back to our 'leaders' in gov't.
  • Vote them all out
    I'm asking (begging), that everyone that is tired of where our government is heading, to please pledge to not vote for any incumbents in the next 2 elections. I don't care which party they are from, let's clean house and get rid of all 535 criminals. It's time to impose our own term limits.
  • Bonuses are an excuse.
    People are falling right into the trap by going BUT THE BONUSES ARE EVIL AND UNDESERVED!!!!!!!!! Yes, they are.
    No one is arguing that people should be rewarded for the company's poor performance to my knowledge.
    It is the fact that it is being used as an EXCUSE by the US government to expand itself and people are just going to sit and let it happen because they are too busy being outraged to see what is happening.

    I seem to recall a certain tragic incident that Janet Reno inflated beyond what actually happened in order to expand police and military power in a certain state...lets just say this state rhymes with Jokelahoma.

    Is this ringing any friggin bells for anyone? Lets get over the "BUT REPUBLICANZ DID...DID YOU FORGET?" BUT DEMOCRATZ DID...DID YOU FORGET?"


    it is EXACTLY this banter that is allowing politicians on EITHER said to continue this masquerade. Stop with the he said, she said, he did, she did.

    LOOK at what is happening NOW.
    Deal with what is happening NOW.
    Forget the stupid semantics.
    Loose words and perfect grammar isn't
    going to help you when you're in a smartgroup camp on 1L of water a day because politicians decided thats all YOU need to get by, while they live up the street in a 2 billion dollar mansion that you are working to pay for by giving them your vote.
  • Tax Pelosi
    I think a fun thing the Republicans could do is introduce a bill taxing Pelosi's congressional pay at 90%. She's getting paid that money from the tax-payers, how is this any different?
  • The AIG tax
    This issue is not the passing of the bill to tax the bonuses, bills have been passed to tax money after the fact before, they have that power in the 16th Amendment. The issuse is the the 14th Amendment and the equal protection under the law. Does this violate that because they are focusing on one group the people from AIG that recieved bonuses. What is to stop them from taxing just left handed people, or people with red vehicles. Sounds stupid but so is this law being passed when they (Congress) had the chance to nip this in the bud.
  • bonus
    I had a bonus like these once ...let me tell you how it works. I asked for X amount of dollars as a salary...the company made a deal with me. If I accept $5K less in salary they will pay me a $5K bonus at the end of the year, but I have to work the entire year to get the bonus...this is a retention bonus and I concidered it part of my salary!!!!!
  • Family Income
    If Family Income is set at $250 thousand, then if another member of the family worked or wrote a book and made 3 million, then all of their income above $250 thousand would be taxed! Is this not abuse of power by Congress?
  • Shut ur Mouth - Revolution#9
    You liberals make me sick. Point to me where in the constitution does it say that two pillow-biters have the right to marriage? Where does it say that foreign terrorists, not part of an actual uniformed army, captured on the battlefield have the same rights that an American citizen has?

    You are more concerned about the rights of these fanatics who would slice your throat in a heartbeat than you are of fellow law abiding Americans who got paid money for doing work as a contract provided.

    What is it with the liberal mind? Are you seriously diseased? You hold candlelight vigils for terrorists or any other pice of scum that is on death row, yet when was the last time you did anything for a soldier who protects your sorry a$$? Have you ever held a vigil for a police officer who leaves a family of 4 behind after he is killed by the very scum you love to shed tears for??? You liberals make me sick.
  • To: Tim
    Tim, YOU miss the point. Neal was trying to construct a constitutional argument. You're trying to offer an emotional one, with no legal basis whatsoever.

    And, as we've already seen, Neal's constitutional arugment won't work anyway. But Boortz has still done his job... he's gotten you riled up and agitated in favor of the corrupt looters sucking at the public teat!

    How DARE the Congress try to put a lid on their incompetence and profiteering, huh? After all, that could be _you_ someday....
  • Tax on Bonuses
    The only thing I am concerned about is the 93 repersentives that voted against the bill. I don't care if they are Republicans or Democrates, They should be voted out of office the next election.
    By the way before you go quoting the constitution read its amendments, there are 27 of them. The 16th amendment (you know the one you want repealed so you acn implement your "fair tax") says "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on income, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Which gives them the right to levy this and anyother tax on income, which a bonus is.
    So, I don't think this was an illegal act preformed by Congress, I think this was an illegal act preformed by AIG, misuse of public funds. You keep saying "it's our money" and it is. The government (all of us) own 80% of AIG we have a right to be outraged over these bonuses even if they was $1.00. Because these so called "high achievers that will turn the company around" are the same Dumb masses that messed the company up in the first place. Instead of a bonus they should be getting a pink ship.
    Remember one thing before you start laying the blame on that socialist Obama. Let's remember it was the conservitive republican Bush and his friends on Wall Street that thought AIG was to big to fail.
  • Confused?
    Um, dude, Republicans can't kill the bill. There aren't enough of them to do so. I take it you don't know much about the numbers in congress, huh.
  • Folks, We are in trouble...
    We are at the tipping point in this country. The liberals have won...Follow me here:

    You would think that anyone with half a brain would be placing outrage at the politicians for this pathetic display regarding AIG Bonuses. They all knew about the bonuses, Dodd even writes an amendment in the Stimulus Bill just last month protecting these bonuses, now these very same people have the gall to attack AIG? They are using their bully pulpit attacking individuals for no crime.

    Now, this is the scary part. Did you watch the protests yesterday?? Were they protesting these POS pathetic dolts in DC? NOOOOOOOOO. The moron mob public was protesting AIG and the employees. Absolute mob rule...they want to kill these poor employees.

    Here we have TRILLIONs going out the window and the average American moron is outraged over a few million dollar bonus contracts. The Democrats have succeeded on two fronts: (1) shifting the blame from their own criminal behavior to these AIG guys; and (2) perfecting the art of class warfare so well that Americans have gotten so worked up in a fervor that they want to destroy anyone who has any suucess or money.

    THINK ABOUT IT: They spend BILLIONS on 9,000 earmarks and no outrage!! Employees get a retention bonus which is a fraction of a penny in the grand scheme of things, and people want to hang them with piano wire.

    Oil companies, who do all the work and provide the lifeblood product of our planet, make 10 measly cents on a gallon of gas, and people want to kill them. Govt taxes, does none of the work, and they tax up 60 cents on a gallon of gas and no outrage!!

    For love of Christ, will you people wake up and get a clue and see who the villan is.
  • @Revolution9
    he typed: "Too bad we weren't so upset when prisoners were being held with out charges and tortured in forign countries in the name of America."

    Oh yeah, I feel really baaaaaaad that we trampled on the "civil rights" of terrorists who tried to kill innocents in the name of Allah. But what makes you think they have any "rights" in the first place?

    And it's ok in your book to have state-sponsored illegal seizure of assets? People like you are scary. Move to Venezuela, you tool.
  • Revolution#9 forgets that the prisoners he's so concerned about are not US citizens and were captured in war-time situations, thusly the Constitution does not apply to them. That's the end of that discussion.
  • Confiscatory Tax
    I was upset, but not surprised when Schumer was one of the first to champion this idea of taxing AIG bonuses at 90% or higher. This is a dangerous precedent and should be stopped immediately before it is taken to its logical liberal conclusion. Onerously taxing groups of American citizens at their political whim.
  • The Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means.
    The acorn and aclu lawyers hussein puts on the federal bench will be with us long after he is gone.

    Where was all the Constitution talk during the last 8 years, Lysander? On Neal's show almost every day, you obviously weren't listening or reading his site.

    Perhaps you forgot the amnesty bill was shot down, thank God, but never fear, it's on the dp agenda for this summer, and it will probably pass now. Any of last year's jumpers wishing they were back in the frying pan yet?

    I used to call myself a libertarian, until they decided to become foreign policy idiots (If I'm not mistaken that's Neal's problem with them too). Even Thomas Jefferson knew sometimes America has to go overseas and invade, defeat and conquer unreasonable Aholes, and that was when Europe was two months away, long before nukes and ICBMs.

    Undermining US troops in the field nailed the lid on the LPs coffin as far as I'm concerned. It looks like they have been infilterated by nutty leftists, from the attitudes, thinking, and methods I've seen from the most vocal members over the last few years.

    I've decided to call myself a Whig, it's the most accurate term these days for my political leanings. I support the GOP because they are currently the only viable alternative to the dp, but these days they're merely the slow train to h*ll.
  • It Makes My Skin Crawl
    Congress discuss AIG is like rapists and murderers discussing how bad jaywalkers are.

    A few points.

    If congress gets away with this wholy unconstitutional retroactive punitive taxation, look out. Talk about a slippery slope.

    Where was the outrage over Franklin Raines? He made over $50 Million in bonuses for illegally overstating earnings (hello, Ken Lay). Guess it helps to have buddies like Dodd, Barney Frank, and Obama.

    Last comment - AIG gave Obama $100,000 last year. Will he return that?

    southernramblings.blogspot.com
  • ex post facto law
    From a universally reliable source (wikipedia.org - article on ex post facto law):

    "In the 1994 opinion United States v. Carlton, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously held that retroactive tax laws did not violate the constitutional prohibition on ex post facto legislation."
  • Unconstitutional?
    So now we're worried about the Constitution. Too bad we weren't so upset when prisoners were being held with out charges and tortured in forign countries in the name of America. Or giving "full faith and credit" to the perfectly legal marriage of two people who happen to share the same gender. Talk about cherry picking.
  • Part of me...
    A small part of me hopes that they pass this so that the supreme court can b**tch slap the italian mare (Pellosi) and the gambler (Reid) with Article I Section 9.



    And while some have said that this is not a bill of attainder, I disagree based on legislative intent (which does matter.)

    In essence, congress has said that it is criminal that these executives accepted these bonuses, thus, the bonuses are forfeit. That they are taxing it at less than 100% is a lame attempt to avoid the bill of attainder clause.

    Also, if the courts have become so worthless that this DOES NOT get struck down (å la Mcain-Feingold) then we know that all is actually lost.

    As far as the 16th amendment - the 16th amendment was pass because an 1895 supreme court decision said that the congress had to apportion income from PROPERTY, income from wages and other sources were already taxable.
  • Fair Tax Now!
    If ever we had an opportune moment to fight for something, it is now: Let's get the Fair Tax enacted! This is a PERFECT illustration of why we need to get this done and take away the power of these insane dimocrats.

    Another thought: If Congress is using unconstitutional seizure of income as a weapon against the citizens of this country, isn't that an open declaration of war against the citizenry of this country?
  • double compensation for wage disputes
    I believe I heard on Fox the other day that in AIG's home State, when there is a wage dispute and a claim by a person is upheld, that the compensation award is DOUBLED. Assuming that to be true, we, the taxpayers, may take a $330 million "hit" instead of the $165 million, not to mention, any possible legal fees. Is this possibly correct?
  • History repeats itself
    "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

    And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

    And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

    And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
  • double compensation for wage disputes
    I believe I heard on Fox the other day that in AIG's home State, when there is a wage dispute and a claim by a person is upheld, that the compensation award is DOUBLED. Assuming that to be true, we, the taxpayers, may take a $330 million "hit" instead of the $165 million, not to mention, any possible legal fees. Is this possibly correct?
  • Court has already pretty much ruled on this
    I was of the same mind as everyone else until someone pointed out to me that the courts have ruled that bills of attainder and ex posto facto laws only apply to criminal law and not civil or tax law. In United States v. Darusmont in 1981, the Court ruled that tax law is by its very nature retroactive and since that is customary there is no Due Process claim involved. The Heritage Foundation has a good, albeit short, article on similar claims from 1998 entitled "Retroactive Tax Increases and The Constitution" available at http://www.heritage.org/research/taxes/hl613.cfm. I am not saying I agree with the Courts reasoning, but that the Court has already punted on retroactive taxation as a Constitutional issue and probably will not look at it again.
  • FORGET THE DAMN BONUSES
    The issue here isn't the bonuses. It's that this administration, and House of Representatives has just established a new precedent. That is using tax law to target law-abiding individual citizens with whom they disagree. Neal's example of Ann Coulter was perfect. What's next? A 90% tax on the personal dividends earned by those owning Oil company stocks ? A 90% tax on the income of registered Libertarians ? A 100% income tax on Rush Limbaugh's earnings.

    These people are totally out of control and we are heading for European Socialism REAL fast.
  • Oops
    Mr. Libby reported that about half of those who received the bonuses had returned them. But because they had receieved the bonus, I'll bet this week's paycheck that won't matter and the bonus will still be taxable. So, not only did they not get the use of the money, but they will be taxed on it as well.
  • Copyleft is government educated
    Copyleft...you miss the point. This taxation is punitive. The congress of the United States is acting as judge and jury and using the tax code to mete out justice. What is more absurd is that just a few days ago, this same government said that the AIG bonuses were legal.
  • Why didn't the Republicans Kill the bill?
    You can blame Pelosi all you want. Republicans in the House just voted for the largest tax increase EVER! Meanwhile they complain about the Budget and the tax increase it will cause. Anyone else confused?

    Second thought regarding the AIG Bonuses . When the Auto companies got their bailout money. I thought there were conditions put in place that would require the change of contracts? The Union contracts had to be changed if GM was going to get bailed out. Why would the AIG contracts be any different?
  • Constitutional Woes
    This is the exact reason this nation’s founders developed the two chambers of Congress and established the three branches of government to balance power. Unfortunately in our misplaced wisdom we moved away from allowing our senators from being appointed to being elected and they too, like the congressmen have become populists. IF this legislation passes the Senate, I have very little hope for a veto from President Obama and look to the courts to stop this madness.
  • Congress? ... who are they?
    If you keep slapping around the most peaceful person, he/she will soon enough fight back.
    The people are going to SNAP!
  • Dear Nancy....
    We, the taxpayers, want our money back we have wasted flying you and your family around the world on government & military planes. Consider flying coach.
  • Why the surprise, Neal?
    ......are you honestly surprised that corrupt dimocrat sycophants like SanFranNan and Slobbering Barney and Maxine "Axe you" Waters would respect the Consitution? They despise the Constitution and view it as an obstacle to their ultimate goal--a communist state.

    This comes as no surprise to conservatives.

    One last thought for laughs: Where's the ACLU on this one?
  • Wrong Clause
    Boortz, unless your own website is incorrect, it's Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 that is the pertinent one.

    I have already written my Senators regarding this very same issue. It is unconstitutional for them to pass this law.
  • Bill of Attainder
    Neil is a lawyer? I'm glad I was never HIS client. This is NOT a Bill of Attainder.

    A Bill of Attainder says that Joe Smith's life or property is forfeit. This bill does not say that. It says that under certain circumstances, ANYONE who makes a bonus will have that bonus taxed at 90%.

    Is it morally wrong? Yes. But it is not a Bill of Attainder. Actually it is worse because if they Congress gets this law through, we will soon find that it applies to many people other than those receiving bailout bonuses.
  • Congressional PERKS!?!
    How bout a recitiation of the equivelent perks of Congress. Thats gotta be similar in the alleged "greed" of the Corporations.

    Heck the Congress is destroying their "business" on a level that eclipses the Corporations and not a smidgen of complaint from the Media.
  • Unconstitutional
    Unconstitutional is now defined as anything that upsets a liberal. The Bill of Rights consists of 10 Amendments not 10 Suggestions. Yes, candidates for office, and voters, should have to pass some eight grade civics and American history tests.
  • You may want to clarify your argument
    Because the way Neal's presenting, ANY sort of differential tax rate on ANY type of income, property, or wealth would be unconstitutional.

    For example, having any tax exemption for capital gains would be unconstitutional; a lower property-tax rate for hospitals and schools would be unconstitutional; and so on. ANY differential rate of tax, by your argument, would be unconstituional.

    That's absurdly oversimplified, Neal. Maybe you should back up and try that argument again.
  • Congressional "bonuses"
    Neal...quick question but why hasn't someone in the media even thought about comparing some of the PERKS of being a Congressman to the Perks of Corporate business?
    Heck these clowns get perks left and right and are driving their "business" into the ground at a rate that eclipses any corporation.
  • Where's Copyleft on this? I figured that he would be for this
    Where's Copyleft on this commnent thread? Since he is a leftist he should be for all this government running roughshod over the American people since he and people like him believe that the Constitution is a living document to be twisted to mean whatever you want it to.

    (Actually the Founding Fathers did not want a living breathing document as that is what King George in England had. We were trying to get away from that remember?)

    Anyway this country is in serious decline just like the Roman Republic when we got away from our founding principles, and the Constitution.

    Pretty soon it will be:
    "Dominus Noster et Augustus Obama" inscribed on our money.
  • Ignorant Congress
    Shouldn't our Congresspeoples have to pass a test on the Constitution before swearing to protect and defend it. It is obvious we have the most uninformed Congress (and President) ever. I don't like to having to be crude, but their heads a filled with dog squeeze.
  • This is Disturbing
    When I was in highschool, two of the books i had to read, do reports on, discuss, etc... were Animal Farm and 1984. I remember reading them with the understanding that it was just good fiction. Plausible maby, but mostly like Star Wars, a good story that could never possibly happen, science fiction. Now i'm not so sure. I wonder if those two books are still required reading?
  • John Galt was pushed.

    (If that's too obtuse: people speak of the book The Fountainhead, wherein John Galt and other industry leaders simply pull out of society and let the craven parasites collapse; people now talk of "going John Galt", i.e. bailing out of society until all this "soak the rich" crap blows over. It hit me yesterday that, in light of recent events, our modern John Galts are not so much pulling themselves out of society, but are instead being _pushed_ out.)
  • What Constitution
    We are now seeing the real break down of law and order...no smarty not the TV show :). I fear that the actions of our government are instilling a disrespect for the rule of law and favoring the mob rule mentality.

    We see senators calling for other Americans to kill themselves. We see senators merely shrugging off the fact that Americans are receiving vigilante death threats due to these bonuses. We see our own government forming what amounts to lynch mobs to go after those evil AIG folks for taking money that our own government said they could have.

    I don't care what party you belong to, or your politics. This should concern every American. The rule of law, the right to property and the ability to enter binding contracts is the fabric that holds our system together. This is what allows free people to associate for the betterment of all parties involved. If we abandon this, we are truly lost.

    It makes me sick to watch these congressional hypocrites on TV feigning fake outrage over these bonuses. They inserted the Dodd amendment protecting the bonuses into the stimulus bill and passed it into law. Its not the American people's fault that not one of these chowderheads read the damn bill before they cast their vote.

    I am now willing to support retro-active term limits for these jokers. I want some people in government that have a moral compass that does not always point south.
  • AIG Bonuses
    Pelosi and company are trying to redirect the anger and disgust which rightly should be pointed at them. I don't have a big problem with bonuses. The anger I see around me in my daily life and next elections in 2 years can't come soon enough. You want to see change, wait till then.
  • Just more taxes
    Pelosi got the Republicians to vote for a tax increase, snookered again!!
  • Bonus tax / losing battle
    Well, here we go again. The fools have the reins and we will pay.
    Being a "Connecticut" company these bonuses are by contract and these people have the right to their money, if they are not paid they have the right to sure for DOUBLE.
    The mear pasing of this bill by the House is at the least UN- Constitutional and as such this whole process will be in the courts for years costing YOU & ME big $$$$$$$. It may well get to the Supreme Court where the G'ment will lose!
    So we the peoplw will have been fleeced again by paying these folks court costs, attorney fees and double the original BONUSES.

    AINT G'MENT GREAT!

    Keith C. Hensley
    Retired TPD
  • unbelievable.....
    ....where was all this constitution talk while George W. Bush was paving the road for socialism, amnesty and therefore lawlessness? If you're going to talk constitution now Neal why did you not throw your support behind a strict constitutionist traditional conservative like Ron Paul? Are you willing to mention his ideas on your show now? I hope Neal you can search out and throw some support behind some congressmen and senators that adhere to the constitution for the midterm elections before its too late for this country.
  • this will be interesting to see how this pans out. it passed easily in the house, but hopefully people in the senate know the constitution. i seem to remember telling my liberal friends before the election that PrezBO did not respect the constitution, and they would argue relentlessly about his time as a constitutional lawyer, and how he knew the constitution better than anyone had ever known it before, etc. these were the kinds of things we were talking about: complete disregard for the supreme law of the land if it conflicts with what he wants to accomplish.
  • This is down right scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    These people are OUT OF CONTROL! If they get away with this what is to stop them from doing this to ALL bounces or any other contract payment, rent to a land lord. They NEED TO BE STOPPED - NOW. We can not wait for the next election.

    Hey GM and the boys - Are you watching what is happening to AIG? Your next!!!!!!!
  • Dead on Boortz
    Perfectly said! Nearly everything the Obama administration does fits a single agenda that can be described simply as "stick it to the man, yo". Laws, contracts, and personal rights be damned.
  • Constitutional in the trash
    but the masses will be happy!
  • AIG Bonus Money
    I agree with most of your views on the efforts by congress to fain outrage for the bailout money being used to pay bonuses. I do have an issue with one of your arguements. You have repeated said "...the amount paid in these bonuses was less than one tenth of one percent of the bailout money received by AIG." Such a statement lends creedence to arguements made by the democrats that their earmarks "... make up less than xx% of the total stimulas (or spending bill)". They (and you) talk like a few billion (or even million) dollars here or there are really unimportant and shouldn't be subject to review or criticism by the taxpayers.
  • Bill of Attainder
    Bills of attainder have been used for a long time and they seem to get by media scrutiny. For instance, the asbestos lawsuits are almost always bills of attainder - asbestos was used as an accepted product for many years (even by the government in Navy ships, etc.) but is now the target of lawsuits which shouldn't make it past the initial filings. The democRAT politicians will do anything unconstitutional or not to vilify capitalism and free enterprise.
  • Taxing bonuses
    2 observations:
    1. I'll bet a hamburger and coke that Speaker Scarecrow has already got plans for spending that windfall (to the government) twice over.
    2. If this passes and the Supremes do not stop it when will all bonuses for everyone start being taxed at a much higher rate?
  • And...
    In addition to what neal said, these people were paid according to the law at that time. It is not right, and I believe unconstitutional, to pass a law that goes back and punishes someone for an earlier transgression. But I could be wrong. If you went through a toll booth and the toll was 50 cents, they cant raise the toll days later and expect you to pay for the trips you took prior to the increase. The government will do anything we will allow them to do.
  • Nancy Pelosi
    As I recall,the last Italian bimbo who got too big for her panties and thought she could simply ignore the law got strung up with piano wire outside a gas station in 1945
  • Abuse of Power
    Thank you Neal for pointing out the real problem with the bonuses. The real story here is that they slipped in a loophole that allowed for these bonuses to get paid and now that this has become public knowledge they are flailing around like a chiken with its head cut off. What our lawmakers are doing is an abuse of power plain and simple. The incompetence is staggering.
  • 16th Amendment
    Neal, as much as I'd like to agree with you, there is this one little problem called the 16th Amendment. Even if the victims of this government theft are allowed to sue the government over this, I suspect the Supreme Court will let it happen pursuant to the 16th Amendment, which places no limitations on Congress's ability to levy income taxes.

    "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
  • Impeachment?
    Seems by voting in the affirmative, all those who did so could be impeached for violation of their oath of office.
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