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Today's Nuze

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Nobody's listening.

THE CLOWN SHOW CONTINUES

By
Neal Boortz
@ March 18, 2009 8:20 AM
Permalink | Comments (122) | TrackBacks (0)

Today in Washington we are going to have a Congressional beat down of AIG CEO Edward Liddy. He is going to appear in front of a House financial services subcommittee. And I think we can safely say that he is going to get a less than pleasant welcome. Liddy is going to have to defend the concept of abiding by the terms of your contracts with your employees. Look for Maxine Waters ask Liddy some questions ..

"What is a contract?" would be a good start. Mensa Maxine is so darn good at this sort of stuff. We'll also be treated to some posturing from the man most responsible for this mess ... and that would be Barney Frank.

So it turns out that AIG paid bonuses of $1 million or more to 73 of its employees. Eleven of those bonuses went to former employees. The contracts were written in March 2008, and they guaranteed 100% of their 2007 pay for 2008. They were not based on performance. Apparently the top individual bonus was more than $6.4 million, and the top seven received more than $4 million each. Did these people really earn this money? Possibly not. But they were parties to a contract .. and if the money had not been paid they would have most certainly sued for it.

Here's something I'm guessing you don't know. The Financial Services Division of AIG is headquartered in Wilton, Conn. In Connecticut they have a little gem called the "Wage Act." This law says that if an employee has to sue for wages payable pursuant to a contract they recover twice the amount that is contractually owed. That would have meant $330 million instead of $165 million. Add some attorney's fees on top of that. So ... you're running AIG. What would YOU do?

Now ... here is just a sampling of some of the comments coming out of Washington.

I'm sure that Chuckie Schumer would like to have his way with Edward Liddy. Did you hear what he had to say about these AIG bonuses? If not, here's a brief synopsis of what Chuckie had to say on the Senate floor:

"My colleagues and I are sending a letter to [AIG CEO Edward] Liddy informing him that he can go right ahead and tell the employees that are scheduled to get bonuses that they should voluntarily return them. Because if they don't, we plan to tax virtually all of it. He should tell his employees that if they don't give the money back, we'll put in place a new law that will allow us to tax these bonuses at a very high rate so it is returned to its rightful owners, the taxpayers. So for those of you who are getting these bonuses be forewarned, you will not be getting to keep them."

He wasn't the only one who had something to say about these bonuses. Harry Reid declared on the Senate floor, "Recipients of these bonuses will not be able to keep all of their money."

And slobbering Barney can't let a good wealth-envy moment go to waste. He's still sputtering about all of these bonuses asserting, "The time has come to exercise our ownership rights. We own most of the company. And then say, as owner, 'No, I'm not paying you the bonus. You didn't perform. You didn't live up to this contract."

Oh and we're not done yet. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus says, "They're not going to get the financial benefit of those bonuses."

And Ohio Democrat Tim Ryan introduced a bill into the House that would tax at 100% bonuses above $100,000 for any company receiving bailout money. Ryan says, "We will use any means necessary ... It boggles my mind how these executives can be so unaware of what the American people are going through." Democrat Rep Steve Israel also sponsored this bill. Israel says, "If we can't kill the bonuses, we'll tax the bonuses." He says, "American families shouldn't be forced to reward these professional financial failures with extravagant bonuses that could buy fancy cars and yachts ... AIG may not like it, but since they had to come to the federal government for help, the federal government now has a say in how they spend taxpayer money."

Another bill introduced by Democrat Rep Gary Peters would "create a 60 percent surtax on bonuses over $10,000 to any company in which the U.S. government has a 79 percent or greater equity stake in the company. Currently, AIG is the only company that meets this threshold."

This is an absolute orgy of pandering to wealth envy. In the meantime the government cruises along operating a Ponzi scheme that makes Bernie Madoff look like he's selling brushes door-to-door. That would be Social Security. Someday we're going to face a meltdown over this soon-to-be welfare program that is going to make AIG and Madoff look like two-bit operators.



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What others are saying

  • AIG, Merrill Lynch, etc
    A simple declaration of war is all that is required. If we at war with these pirates, we can legally kill them. I vote for war. Put a bounty on them and lets see how long they last.
  • Boba Fett
    James said As Darth Vader said to Boba Fett, “I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.”

    Reading that... you would think AIG is Boba Fett, but I submit to you that if you went to the GOVT and said 'You gave em $168B of my money, quit trying to put em out of business....' they would say the same thing to you.
  • @Quiet Riot
    You don't inflame me. Here's what does:
    The government not only bails out failed, mismanaged corporations, but it’s also using our taxes to bail out it’s own failures. In turn, those failures misuse the money to pay the very executives responsible for their failures. My money. Making me responsible for a contractual agreement that I had no part in.

    Still think the argument is pointless and without merit?

    Then either you're clueless or not fed up enough.
  • You Get Over IT!
    I am extremely angry over the number of times bloggers have ranted, "Get over it, you lost."

    Conservatives do not look at right and wrong as "I win, you lose" or "You win, I lose."

    When the constitution is followed and right decisions are made, everyone wins. When corruption and lawlessness is followed, everyone loses.

    Liberals and Conservatives should be on the same page when the issue concerns corruption and illegal activties.

    Some of you need to consider what these things mean for your future rather than being so completely stupid. If Neal "loses" when he defends the constitution, then we have ALL lost.
  • Bonuses guaranteed in Stimulus Act
    The one passed about five weeks ago and that HAD to be voted on so fast, there was no time to read it.
    "The prohibition required under clause one shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment required to be paid, persuant to a written employment contract executed on or before February 11,2009, as such valid employment contracts are determined by the Secretary or the designee of the Secretary." Look it up.
    It's this Congress' bill with this President's signature on it.
    Now they are all feigning suprise and shock.
    Americans are easy to distract. Show them a shiny thing ("bonuses to who???") in this hand while the other steals their wallets ("cap & trade anyone???") and their freedoms. If we're this gullible, we really do deserve what's about to happen to us.
  • Are you scared yet?
    Doesn't it scare the sweet bejesus out of you that our government would target a specific group of people to persecute? We do all understand that if they can do it to AIG because they don't like that they got bonuses, they can do it to me because I'm chubby and a health risk, or Christian because I'm a whatever phobe, or whatever for whatever reason. This is truly the most unAmerican thing I have heard in my 53 years of life. How in the world do we work enough passion in folks to vote these clowns into their first real job?
  • The government can be trusted
    The AIG bonuses will be paid as the contracts specify. After all, the government can ALWAYS be counted on to honor its obligations. If you don't believe me, just ask an Indian! (Native American, that is.)
  • AIG
    This ia a dog and pony show.

    Congress can't break this contract, but they are going to break every mortgage contract. Who is the sucker here? We are, the taxpayer not getting any bailout.
  • If I was an AIG bonus recipient
    and it became clear that the government was going to commit the criminal act of taxing after the fact I would simply donate all of it to charity and write it off.

    The sad fact is; the government made the rules, the government gave them the money, they followed the rules; and NOW the government wants to do something.

    Pathetic.
  • AIG bonuses
    I don't pretend to know all the details concerning AIG's bonuses. However, at a time when working class people are being laid off, furoughed, and forgoing raises and cuts in benefits, it is understandable why they are upset over these bonuses.

    This doesn't have anything to do with us working class folks being envious of the wealthy. This is about morality and ethics. What one makes doesn't equate with what he/she produces or contributes to an organization. I bet I could have done an equally terrible job of running AIG and I would have accepted a lot less money to do it.
  • @ sfcmac re: Wealth-Envy Pimps
    Sfcmac,

    Obozo's DC boys are the wealth-envy pimps. Not you.

    My point isn't that bail-outs are good. Rather, the howling over one 10th of 1 percent for retention "bonuses" seems shallow ... politically motivated ... especailly with all the pork these days ... as if they really care about honest expendatures and logical business decisions.

    Also - I support self-suffiency and individualism. I don't advocate bail-outs. However, the Fed Chair, Bernake (sp?) made a good point on 60 minutes ... that if your neighbor's house is burning down, and your house may catch fire (even though no fault of your own) you might want to lend a hand to your neighbor. I don't like bail-outs, but I think Bernake might have a point.

    We're arguing two different points: Are Bail-outs good (no. we agree).
    Should government interfere with existing business contracts (there we may disagree.)

    Last - Thank you for your service and for defending me & my family.
  • AIG Bonuses
    The salaries of congress for one year almost exactly equals the $165 million in bonuses. If Congress would forgo their salaries for only one year, everybody would be happy. Right?
  • GET OVER IT NEAL
    Get over it NEAL! YOU LOST! Noone in their RIGHT MIND would just sit there and let AIG misuse Taxpayer Money!

    I know its hard for you to understand Neal, it's called "having MORALS". I realize your prior "Lawyer education" has stripped that from you however, the decent people have not had theirs stripped from them.

    Keep crying Neal. Your losing my faith in you.
  • re: American Taxpayer @ 03/18/09
    Dear AT

    You don't seem to grasp the realities here. I don't like the concept of paying $$ to these people either. But, I recognize the legal obligation to do so. Sure, had the government (not you or me) not provided an investment or extensions of credit many of these or other obligation may not have been paid. (under the revised bankruptcy laws stay bonuses are prohibited - bet you didn't know that) Yet, that ship already sailed; that is not the current woulda, shoulda, coulda agrument. Its in the past. The key thing is what is appropriate going forward. And unfortunately, unlike that congressman at the hearing today that said "just deny them the payments; let them sue; it'll be three years before something is decided and by theyn AIG will be out of money, etc. etc." Well, unfortunately, as an honest american taxpayer - its potentially criminal to induce an activity with no "intention" of paying (that could be construed as fraudulent inducement) and if conspired by 3 or more follow under the RICCO statutes (treble damamages and a federal crime involving jail time could follow) not for me. ... anyway.

    As PO'd as I am; I also defend America and its rule of laws; there are too many idiots writing and speaking of what they do not know; and doing so in a fevered pitch - its not the biggest and loudest that shouts that needs to be heard, but the correct one. Its difficult to accept; but accept you should.

    I wish I were wrong conceptually here, unfortunately, I am not.

    O and please see the attached link - for the definition of "fungible"
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fungible?qsrc=2446 (its covered in principles of economics; take it as a freebie)
  • re: By sfcmac @ 03/18/09
    Ms, Not to inflame you or such, but your points are pointless and without merit. I appreciate the service to our country, its ashame you don't seem to understand what it was you were defending.

    But, I am glad you agreed with my points. Thank you.

    QR
  • Impeach Obama, Fire Geithner
    Obama the sock puppet said today at the White House: "We are responsible, though. The buck stops with me." regarding the AIG debacle.

    Well if the sock puppet says the buck stops with him, great. Impeach him. And fire the tax cheat Geithner and put him in prison where he belongs.

    Now THAT'S change we can BELIEVE in.
  • Fannie-Mae
    Funny how congress is critical of the bonuses paid to AIG execs but Fannie-Mae and Freddie-Mac are planing on paying similar bounuses to 4 of their execs

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/18/fannie-mae-pay-bonuses-g-execs/
  • Tax on Pork
    It's interesting that Congress is so keen on getting that AIG bonus money back. They want to tax 100% of it? I have a better idea. How about a 100% tax on porky earmark money?
  • It's Not The Money, It's Who Received It
    Liberal Democrats couldn't care less about the no-strings-attached money they are throwing into the AIG money pit. The only beef they have is that the employees who received these bonuses are most likely in the highest tax bracket and "don't deserve it". ARRRRRGH
  • I hear carnival music.
    Did chuckie really say, ”…returned to its rightful owners, the taxpayers?” How unlike him, pardon me while I bust a gut laughing. Who’s he kidding? Don’t expect him to remember that long enough to apply it to that $ trillion + ‘stimulus’ bill he just voted for.

    "The time has come to exercise our ownership rights. We own most of the company. And then say, as owner, 'No, I'm not paying you the bonus. You didn't perform. You didn't live up to this contract." Barney’s actually saying, “We’re going to run AIG, so don’t expect it to uphold its’ contractual obligations, turn a profit, or ever repay the taxpayer money sunk into it.” A few questions barney, what specific clause in their contracts didn’t they live up to? Didn’t you vote for the bill that approved those bonuses? Where are the strings you claim are in that bill you and the dp controlled congress approved? It’s almost funny to watch him pretend he has a clue of how to run a business (even the callboy service being run from his home was a failure, it got busted). Watch barney make the AIG execs look like geniuses.

    Ryan says, "We will use any means necessary ... It boggles my mind how these executives can be so unaware of what the American people are going through." “Any means necessary,” puts Tim Ryan in company with people, like stalin, Hitler, mao, kim (both lil’ and lil’ big), castro, pol pot, Khomeini, Mugabe, chavez, and other ‘ends justify the means’ people. I wonder if he applies that standard to terrorists, as well as Americans? Nah, that would be immoral
  • Good for the goose?
    So, let me get this right. The gov't with their power will take my money and "invest" it in publicly traded companies. but it will not allow me to use my money to invest in publicly traded companies through Social Security? Makes sense to me.
  • If there were no bailout...
    If there were no bailout, where would the money have come from to pay these "bonuses"? Why wasn't there some provision that AIG settle this bonus obligation before they received federal funds?

    Regardless, this is a drop in the bucket that is the stimulus. While I agree wealth envy is driving this story, I don't want to see it repeated.
  • scary
    So...I guess these are the sorts of goings-on to look forward to with nationalization of business. Shocking.

    And Neal, have you heard about the Special Guard Obabma wants to surround himself with...men loyal only to him? I'm scared to death...is he trying to get things set up so that he can take over as dictator, or something?

    Somebody let me know when the revolution starts. I'll be there.

    I'm starting to get a very bad feeling about all this...is there going to be a civil war between the Haves and the Have-Nots?
  • Sambeaux & SFC Cheryl
    First off thanks Cheryl, all service people are awesome in my book and I think what Obama is proposing for injured soldiers is treasonous!

    Sambeaux, the foreign money issue was covered in detail last night on Glenn Beck. It is amazing!
  • @ Moochers
    Yeah, I know. I said "originally introduced". Those that crossed are either RINOS or DINOS. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. Even in congress.
  • AIG Bonuses
    The only thing more annoying than those clods at AIG scoring huge bonuses while the company continues to circle the drain is that their most vocal collective critic is the Congress; a bunch of clods scoring huge bonuses whils the country circles the drain. Diffences is, I don't HAVE to do business with AIG.
  • @James
    Don't misconstrue taxpayer's anger over government waste and AIG's fraud for "wealth envy".

    I don't care how much wealth you accumulate; as long as it's accrued honestly. You know, the capitialist concept of hard work, perseverence, and well-managed SUCCESS. Taxpayer bailouts for failure don't figure into the equation. Funny how those who disagree with forking over money to failures are called "wealth-envy pimps". Newsflash, sweetpea: I didn't spend 30 years as a Soldier paying taxes on a salary equal to a Congressman's lunchtab to be accused of "wealth envy". I knew the job was dangerous and underpaying when I took it. I didn't expect to get rich, but by the same token, I didn't expect to get called a "wealth-envy pimp" for objecting to obscene bailouts.

    Like a wise person once said: "I don't envy the rich or pity the poor".

    I make my own way and I don't like to be forced to support people who either don't want to work,(welfare) or failed at business. (AIG)
  • What would AIG have done if they didn't have the bailout $$$?
    I don't know how I feel about these bonuses being paid with bailout money; I go back and forth feeling like many of these employees probably did do their jobs and had nothing to do with the collapse of their company. However, would AIG have been able to pay out these bonuses if the bailouts didn't even exist? Odds are they would have defaulted on the bonuses. What would they have done then? Just something to think about.
  • @joeshmoe
    well, i guess a few repubs came around...and some dems voted against it.

    senate:

    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00213#position

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/4fpfn7

    house:

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml
  • @Quiet Riot
    "The US Government purchased an ownership interest into AIG. It bought the "stock, preferred / common whatever" what this means is as new co-owners their money was used to pay existing liabilities whatever they may have been current or future. This is the way transactions like this occur."
    The U.S. government purchased...with their money, or mine? (That's a trick question)

    "Alternatively, they did not buy the "ASSETS" of the company with the ability to reject liabilities they wished to avoid."
    No, they just made us pay liabilities for assets we didn't buy.

    "Therefore, the management of the company is duty bound - as directed by its Board to carry out the functions and settle debts and obligations of the entity."
    Ok, then let THEM settle the debts.

    "Just because you own a piece of an entity doesn't let you run it unless you have control; and once you obtain control (as is the case here for the US Government) they can not undo pre-established contracts willy nilly - just because the new owners "didnt sign the contract".
    Having said that, you could say that millions of taxpayers now own a piece of AIG by proxy, and with no control to boot. It's just that simple.
  • In retrospect....
    When the (TARP) bill was originally introduced, NOT ONE republican voted for it. Not one. THIS is exactly why. Oh, but if we didn't get it in the works the economy was doomed. Yeah. RIIIIIIGHT.
  • AIG
    This is smoke and mirrors and I hate we have no real leaders to stand up and point out a few simple facts:
    1. AIG's failure was in large part written by the meddling of government in free enterprise. It started with B.Frank and crew insisting that "subprime mortgages" represent a certain % of FMae and Fmac's business and that % continued to increase right through George Bush.
    2. AIG is now a gov't money laundering machine, with over $60Billion of our tax dollars going overseas. Compare $60B to 165 million and even government school students should be able to identify the larger number.
    3. The waste in the stimulus bill absolutely dwarfs that piddling 165 million. But our legislature just could not wait to give away money we don't have.

    Ideas that really present solutions, such as your suggestion to bring private enterprise money back home to work, Fair Tax etc can't be discussed because the jugglers are too busy distracting us from the burning big top.
  • 4 Observations
    1) The AIG “bonuses” are around one tenth of one percent of the total bailout. Sounds to me like the whole controversy is just an excuse for more wailing and gnashing of teeth by the wealth-envy pimps.

    2) If the government nationalizes your firm and breaks existing contracts, you have the freedom to complain … for now. Good luck with that. As Neal says, only government has the power to seize assets at the point of a gun.

    3) As Darth Vader said to Boba Fett, “I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.”

    4) The dumb masses won’t notice. The lynch mob is fired up to a frenzy.

    Regarding #4: I work for a company with an ultra-liberal culture (ick). The fawning over obozo, the blind faith in the chosen one, the utter ignorance of business / law / constitution / etc., leads me to conclude that cogent argument based on rational thought, logic, moral premises, and evidence, is a waste of breath on these people.

    Question: Why can't AIG simply "cancel" the bonuses, wait 10 minutes for the dumb masses to get distracted by American Idol, then issue temporary pay increases, stipends, discretionary remuneration, retroactive reimbursements, or whatever the heck they want to call it?

    Maybe AIG can call the bonus payments "Tax Cuts."
  • An answer to neal's question
    "In Connecticut they have a little gem called the "Wage Act." This law says that if an employee has to sue for wages payable pursuant to a contract they recover twice the amount that is contractually owed. That would have meant $330 million instead of $165 million. Add some attorney's fees on top of that. So ... you're running AIG. What would YOU do?"

    Go bankrupt like everybody else.
  • To Quiet Riot
    Shut up. It IS about my tax money. AIG used it the same way the government does through extortion (taxes). That doesn't make it right, constitutional, or for that matter, legal.

    I'm glad you think cash is "fungible". My wallet, howver, would beg to differ.
  • @tonor
    "Anyway, the money came with no conditions so AIG was free to spend it any way they chose."

    Even though we didn't sign the contract, we were forced to allow AIG to 'spend the money any way they chose'. Sounds like what the government does on daily basis, but that doesn't make it right....or constitutional. Bottom line: we are footing the bill for bonuses guaranteed in a contract not agreed upon by those who foot the bill. We, the benefactors, did not sign the contract which the government is indirectly "honoring" with our money.

    Under any other circumstances involving normal business transactions, that would be illegal.

    A legal example: My car insurance company was sued in a class action suit, and as a paying CONTRACTUAL customer directly involved in the financing of said company, (through premiums) I get a settlement. That's fair, because I signed a contract with the company and I'm getting back some of MY OWN money. People not included in the contract are not liable.

    Though we never agreed to a binding contract, we are being held liable for AIG's failure. How is that legal?

    By the way, I thought the bailout money was supposed to be used to prevent AIG from going into bankruptcy (where it belongs), not pay for bonuses. So, when all is said and done, AIG committed fraud. And, they're still in the red.

    "Thank you for your service to our country. I, for one, truly appreciate it from you and all the others, past and present. I'm a regular guy just like you...I work 2 jobs and my wife works 2 days so she can be home most of the time to raise our 3 children (my mom watched them the other 2 days). I live in a modest, 3 bedroom ranch house that I bought for $108,000 15 years ago with 20% down. I've never been late or missed a payment...in fact, I've always paid more. Nobody is bailing me out either and I don't want anybody to! I'll fend for myself."

    Me too. I took over the family home (after my mother's death) and the care of a disabled sister when I retired.

    There's no employment in my area commensurate with my job skills. Relocation, due to the care of my sibling, is out of the question. I'm struggling, but my mortgage is paid every month, on time.

    By the way, I'm female. "SFC MAC" is short for SFC Cheryl McElroy, US ARMY (RET). And, you're welcome.
  • Throw the idiots out in 10 & 12!!
    We are seeing more damage to this nation in two months than Bush & Republicans have done in eight YEARS. America had better wake the hell up or She will be gone as we know it. Congress wasn't upset over AIG until now because they knew their ilk was head deep in the matter, from Barney O himself to Barney the slob Frank.

    Also, isn't it so nice of that booger picker/eater "Copyleft" to continue to show her little pink(o) skirt on these blogs daily? Every word that comes from that thing's alleged brain is a word that just validates me despising the left in this nation.
  • Seeing as how 3 of the Top 10 Recipients....
    of AIG campaign contributions are in the current administration (Obama, Clinton, Biden) and a fourth is chairman of the senate banking committee (Dodd), this whole thing is indeed a circus act.
  • Who's Leading?
    Time has a way of exposing those who have the ability to lead, from the pompous and the self promoting inept. The one constant in Washington D.C. has been the poor quality of representatives (the capitol is full of placating ballot bloopers). The agenda of the current administration has been to distract and mislead while effectively undermining and dismantling our country’s core. Before the cameras they scream their rally cries while the true enemy of our nation is kept from view as best they can. It is this lack of strong, ethical, moral and sound leadership which explains our anarchy.

    Like an inoperable cancer being fed with an insatiable blood supply, our current administration is growing government to the detriment of the nation. Those charged with overseeing the various departments of our expanding government have achieved little more than verifying Peter’s Principal. I remember how Timothy Geithner was to be the only one capable of being Secretary of the Treasury during his confirmation hearings. His most recent action or lack thereof, draws a different conclusion.

    Under the current climate, there will be an unexpected opportunity for some. Expect to see more business executives prepare themselves for the political arena. Our country needs heroes that will lead on sound principal, not follow after failed ideology. It is hoped that the turmoil of today will produce many from the ranks of the business sectors people who haven’t forgotten that the business of America is to be in business.
  • Democratic Hypocratics
    So if a bonus is 1 million cash then they have a problem, but if it is 5 million for a private jet, pilot, and fuel then no big deal. I guess they still don't think they were part of the problem. Keep it up Neal. The smart people love you.
  • Our government resembles a Saturday Night Live skit that never ends. It is amazing that people with so much responsibility can be so divorced from reality, but then most of the people that vote are divorced from reality so I guess it makes sense. Such a shame it took us less than 250 years to get to this point.
  • Universal Healthcare
    A question.

    Natasha Richardson's skiing accident is horrible, in deed. My question is if the Canadian Universal Healthcare is so great, why did her family transfer her to the U.S.?
  • contract?
    From what I have heard th eonly contract was not in writing only an assurance from the company that it would be paid...not a paper signed by both sides. So if true this means only the very high wage earners are expecting this kind of "contract" to be honored as most companies have no problem backing out on this kind of promise to the regular workers. I have had many companies tell me I would get a raise or bonus and when th etime came they just said...well things changed. and end of story.
  • AIG bonuses
    At first, I was outraged about these bonuses. Considering the fact that had the taxpayers not bailed out AIG, there probably would not have been any bonuses. However, upon further consideration, I have changed my mind. A contract is a legaly binding document that, if broken, will in most cases result is legal action. We can't just go around and tell companies that they must break their contracts because of political correctness/wealth envy. The Dems are really stirring the pot with this one and are getting the exact reaction they were hoping for. If this all shakes out in the left way, we will be that much closer to becoming a communist state. People need to think with their brains here and not the wallets. But then, we elected BO didn't we. Actually they elected him...not me.
  • AIG bait and switch scam
    We are a nation of sheep. The media and the government are using the AIG bonuses as a bait and switch tactic to keep us from knowing the REAL disaster that the AIG bailout was, which is this: OF THE $160+ BILLION DOLLARS THAT AIG GOT IN THE BAILOUT, $93 BILLION DOLLARS OF THAT MONEY WAS GIVEN TO EUROPEAN BANKS AND GOLDMAN-SACHS. So the majority of the bailout money will not even have ANY effect on the American economy.....well....other than a negative effect that is. These bonuses represent 1/10 of 1 per cent of the bailout money, and how can a company keep qualified people if they don't live up to their contracts? You will have to look long and hard to find any media coverage (Rush is the only person I've heard mention it)of the $93 billion that for the most part has left America and gone to Europe. It is a total scam.
  • AIG bait and switch scam
    Neal, Why is it that Rush is the ONLY person in the media calling attention to the fact that of the $160+ billion dollars that AIG got in the "bailout", over $93 billion of that money went to EUROPEAN BANKS and GOLDMAN-SACHS? This whole "bonus brouhaha" is a diversionary tactic by the government aided by the media to keep us from realizing what has really happened: That the vast majority of that bailout money is not going to do squat for the average citizen (except of course raise his/her taxes). Enjoy your web site everyday, and thanks for letting me vent.
  • AIG Bonuses
    The whole idea of the government being able to "change the system" so they can tax bonuses at leisure, and the feeling that they have the right to just ignore LEGAL contracts is seriously creeping me out
  • The Bonus' are not the only thing stinking here.
    First of all, if Prezbo and his henchmen knew about these bonus' long before the bailout and put no strings on the bailout money, don't blame the company. Blame the ones that wrote the bill and amendments.

    Secondly. What they are trying to do now looks suspiciously like a Bill of Attainder, which is expressly forbidden by the Constitution.

    You're an attorney, Neal. How long do you think it could be tied up in court?

    The most obvious thing is that NO ONE in the Congress or the Administration (and I include the Bush administration in that) has the slightest idea of what they're doing and are throwing money at the problem hoping that, if it doesn't fix things, it at least confuses things enough so that they can claim to have "done something".

    Like my Dad always said, "If you just want to "do something" you can strip down, paint yourself blue and run through town with your hair on fire." It's going to accomplish the same thing and it's cheaper.
  • SFCMAC @ 03/18/09 11:15:48 AM
    SF,

    Here is what you write; I'll help you understand why in this case you are wrong.

    "Honoring the contracts from the previous ownership's own money: No problem.

    Honoring contracts without my signature, at my expense: BIG PROBLEM."

    The US Government purchased an ownership interest into AIG. It bought the "stock, preferred / common whatever" what this means is as new co-owners their money was used to pay existing liabilities whatever they may have been current or future. This is the way transactions like this occur.

    Alternatively, they did not buy the "ASSETS" of the company with the ability to reject liabilities they wished to avoid.

    Therefore, the management of the company is duty bound - as directed by its Board to carry out the functions and settle debts and obligations of the entity. Just because you own a piece of an entity doesn't let you run it unless you have control; and once you obtain control (as is the case here for the US Government) they can not undo pre-established contracts willy nilly - just because the new owners "didnt sign the contract". Its just not that simple.

    And, I am glad it isn't because that would be wrong.
  • Schumer's comment
    Article 1 section 9 of the constitution says congress cannot pass ex post facto legislation. It would be against the law for congress to increase taxes on money already earned.
  • One more thing....
    Tell your listeners to SHUT UP - about this is tax payer money. The heck it is.

    Once the funds were given to AIG they becam AIG Funds, PERIOD. Cash is a fungible - like water.

    Example... pour 10 gallons of water in a pool of 100 gallons... then pour the same 10 gallons you just poured into that pool out. Betcha can't!

    Good day, (again) sir
  • Where to start.
    Neal,

    When AIG went looking for an investment in them. The government - Tax Cheat Tim - had a responsibility to do some due diligence. Just like any other person or company buying an interest in a third party. One such issue to look at is commitments and contingencies. Most of the masses won't have any clue as to what I write. (too bad get an MBA at a real school and practice for 20 years) What happened, is simply tax cheat tim did a horrible job on this.
    Proof that the government can't run a business.

    Once you accept ownership interest you can't renig on contracts just because you want to; sure you can but there are consequences. (more right wing speak).

    Finally, lets consider this. I don't care if these contracts were for performance; measured by some factor that was met that ultimately caused the need for AIG to seek an investment. The fact remains that these individuals completed there side of the employment contract and are owed the funds. Pay them or file bankruptcy.
    Next, consider the arguement, "but these are the contracts that brought AIG to its knees" - my answer is SO WHAT; No doubt there were no intended goal to write hedges, swaps with the goal of being ruinous to the company. What idiot would intentionally do that? What happened is fairly clear, the housing market and Mortgage Backed Securities went to pot; remember who caused this? (your pal Slobbering BARNEY; and crew?) and the contracts needed to be covered at what was a loss??
    So, ultimately, seeing through the issues; who should be held accountable?

    1. Tax Cheat Tim
    2. slobbering Barney
    3. obozo (its on his watch that new money was given to AIG (remember its last money in that makes the rules (before putting the money in))

    I say, Fire all of them; as incompentent clowns, or

    Put a tent over it and sell tickets.

    Good day, Sir
  • Shouldn't You Have Said...
    Shouldn't you have said, "Look for Maxine Waters to AXE some questions"?
  • AIG Clown Show
    You are right that it seems to be a matter of contract. But would they sue? Wouldn't you want to see those contracts and see if the employees performed the duties required of them? In a jury trial today, do you think they would stand much of a chance prevailing on their claim for a bonus? I have serious doubts.
  • Political Phonies
    There is another side to this AIG mess. One you will not hear from any politician. Why did it take so long for the president and senior lawmakers to get so worked up? More troubling, why did it take so long for them to discover AIG planned to give huge bonuses in the first place?
    Watching the coverage the past 24 hours, it would seem AIG just made public its plans to give top employees big bonuses. Wrong.
    AIG disclosed its retention-bonus program more than a year ago, including bonuses directed to those handling the exotic derivatives that got the company and the country into this mess. Does that make the bonuses OK – no not at all but it suggests that all this political fervor over the bonuses is hollow and phony. More importantly, they are an intention distractions from the fact that the politicians complaining the loudest took the largest political campaign contributions from AIG in 2008. Outraged yet – probably not, so few Americans are even paying attention or have figured out that political corruption is ruining this country.
    I’d suggest that politicians - regardless of party affiliation - who took money from any of the financial institutions or companies seeking - or who have already gotten - aid from US taxpayers should give that money back to the taxpayers - with interest.
    If they huff and puff and keep the cash, they are phony blowhards primping for the cameras.
    Politicians are trying to divert attention from their own misdeeds. They are desperate to make people look at something - anything - else to blame for the mess right now than their own questionable actions.
    Here are the top ten recipients of AIG campaign contribution largess from the 2008 election:
    Dodd, Chris (D-CT) Senate $103,100
    Obama, Barack (D-IL) Senate $101,332
    McCain, John (R-AZ) Senate $59,499
    Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $35,965
    Baucus, Max (D-MT) Senate $24,750
    Romney, Mitt (R) Pres $20,850
    Biden, Joseph R Jr (D-DE) Senate $19,975
    Larson, John B (D-CT) House $19,750
    Sununu, John E (R-NH Senate $18,500
    Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) Pres $13,200
    Put up or shut up, gentlemen. Give the money back - with interest - or stop screeching for the cameras about AIG’s bonuses.
  • SFCMAC
    I agree with a lot of what you wrote and believe it or not, we're very like minded. However, I disagree that my assertion that the source of funds does not change the legality of the contract. Unless of course those funds came with some preconditions, which they did not. Again, that's the gov't's fault, not AIG's. Par for the course for the gov't., sadly.

    Again, I'm angry, too. I abhor waste, especially waste of others' money. I served on my local school board years ago and what I invariably ended up saying (prior to voting "no") was, "Gee...we're very generoous with OTHER people's money". Anyway, the money came with no conditions so AIG was free to spend it any way they chose. Yes, it stinks to see it spent on these bonuses, but to me it stinks to see it spent any way at all, contractual obligation or not. I think we both agree they never should've been given the money and that's the real problem and the source of my anger. The gov't, according to the constitution, had no right to give them our money. They have no right to give it to anyone, no matter how noble the cause.

    Kudos to you for honestly saying you wouldn't take the money. I highly doubt I would either, but I honestly can't say for certain.

    Thank you for your service to our country. I, for one, truly appreciate it from you and all the others, past and present. I'm a regular guy just like you...I work 2 jobs and my wife works 2 days so she can be home most of the time to raise our 3 children (my mom watched them the other 2 days). I live in a modest, 3 bedroom ranch house that I bought for $108,000 15 years ago with 20% down. I've never been late or missed a payment...in fact, I've always paid more. Nobody is bailing me out either and I don't want anybody to! I'll fend for myself.

    I don't care what anybody says, guys like us are what's good about this country. It just pains me to see so many who think we and the gov't owe them everything. They are those riding the wagon whilst we pull it. Some day guys like us will say "enough!" and then it's game over for this country.

    Again...this cannot be over-emphasized...thank you for your service to this still great (but shaky) country. We wouldn't even be having this civil discussion if not for guys like you.
  • @Barry
    Is it legal to be forced to honor a contract I never signed?
  • Why all the Noise
    For heavens sake, the contract was that these people got the bonus based off of the previous years bouns not performance. Christ! I'am a first year paralegal student and I could punch holes in every one of the governments arguments. I hope that the government makes an a$$ out of themselves by trying to do something that is preceived to be justice, and gets the socks sued out of them as individuals. Maybe then then public will relize we have nothing more than myopic morons in DC.
  • AIG is in bed with the Devil
    No contract is valid when the government is the new boss. Almost by definition, they have the right to "renegotiate" as they go. This is why bailouts are a bad idea. If you suckle up to the Government Teat, don't be surprised at the new terms of employment. Let this be a lesson to all the other corporations that think the easy way out is to cry to momma.

    On another note, I'm still not convinced that Barney Frank and the Fannie Mae rules are the root cause of this mess. I mean, the argument makes sense to me, but I have yet to hear one bank executive try to make the case that the Community Reinvestment Act, or Barney Frank, or Maxine Waters, or Acorn or anybody else forced them to make all of these bad loans.

    The talk shows are making a convincing case, but until I hear the bank executives point their finger at this as the underlying problem, it's just another conspiracy theory to me.
  • AIG Bonuses
    Yes, I was outragedd & am still miffed at these bonuses. But.....now that I know the facts about the bonuses (something I don't know about AIG's other $173b in funds) I understand. The contracts were signed before the house-of-cards debacle. They shouldn't have been offered...but were. Neal, i gotta agree with you here. A contract is a contract...no matter how distasteful.
  • @rocket
    I'll make this so simple, even you can understand:

    Honoring the contracts from the previous ownership's own money: No problem.

    Honoring contracts without my signature, at my expense: BIG PROBLEM.
  • Are Bonuses the problem or a smoke screen
    Everybody is up in arms over 62 million in bonuses, where is AIG spending the bailout (our tax money). Out of $106B, $44B goes to the US, $62B goes overseas. I'm glad my taxes are bailing out the world!
  • Bonus Hoopla
    The "outrage" should be directed at prezbo and congress. Didn't they bother to ask about unsavory spending habits before committing our money? Our leaders are either in cahoots or totally inept.
  • It's
    It’s odd how all the malcontents are up in arms today because some huge capitalist organization received a ‘welfare check’ for a ‘hand up’ no questions asked because they are ‘down on their luck’ or lets say ‘financially disadvantaged’ (for PC sake) today. Yet half of America has been doing the same thing, or worse, for years and little has been done about it. This so called ‘outrage’ towards AIG is first of all misdirected and second of all unjustified. The outrage should be directed towards our imperial federal government for taking the welfare system to a new level of incompetence. Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce the new Kakistocracy.
  • I HATE RICH PEOPLE
    "The best way to hurt rich people is turn them into poor people"...Billy Ray Valentine.

    Guess Prezbo is staring in the "New Trading Places
  • what if this was a pro sports team?
    Let's put this into terms everyone (the dumb masses) can understand, even those IDIOTS(!) in DC. This is the same as a professional sports team that is bought by new ownership...they have to honor the contracts from the previous ownership. Some players don't deserve their bonuses, but your bound by a contract to pay the money. LIKE IT OR NOT!
    Will this set precedent for pro sports teams now too?

    This is what happens with (1)haste & (2)not wanting to waste a good crisis. These clowns in DC are FUBAR!
  • A little matter of the Constitution......
    "We're going to pass a law taxing you 100% on the bonus' you got."

    Have these idiots ever heard about the ex post facto clause in the Constitution? I realize the revisionist judiciary has generally applied that clause only to criminal acts, but wouldn't refusal to pay a belated tax bill be considered criminal?

    Oh, silly me! Of COURSE failure to pay your taxes is not a criminal act, or most of Obama's entourage wouldn't be holding office.............

    Point being? No matter the letter of the law. Liberals believe the Gub'mint can do ANYTHING to it's "subjects."
  • CLOWNS
    As always when you send in the clowns (Prezbo and staff plus Pelosi, Reid, Frank etc) a circus WILL break out !
  • Business As Usual
    A Quote by Thomas Jefferson comes to mind as I witness this well deserved mess. "Any government that can provide everything you need can also take everything you have".
  • @tonor
    I'm angry at the politicians who enambled AIG to rub their feckless arrogance in our faces with taxpayer funds; hence, I'm angry at both.

    "What difference does it make where the money came from - a contractual obligation doesn't change regardless."

    Wow. If that statement wasn't so ridiculous it would be funny. Was it shareholder money? NO. Was it money that AIG had leftover from profits? NO.
    It's ours. It was taken by the government against our will and given to a failed business in the name of "bailout".

    "Now, if our politicians had been smart (fat chance) they'd have stipulated BEFOREHAND that no bailout money could be used to pay bonuses."

    Agreed. But in that case, did AIG's CEO contracts stipulate bailout money? I guess since we have no say in the way our money is wasted,it doesn't matter, does it?
    It's not the 'easy way out', it's called integrity and accountability. Even some state governors are turning down stimulus money because they know they will be forced to spend it on pork. AIG has no shame. They're just another pig at the trough.

    "Hey, are you ticked at an athlete who signs a huge contract and then underperforms, yet still gets paid? Or an entertainer who makes a bomb of a movie and still gets paid? I'm not."

    Neither am I. Are they overpaid? You bet. BUT IT'S NOT MY TAX MONEY, EITHER. It's money paid by owners and executives that put their own money at risk, NOT ME. Apples and oranges.

    "What others make is irrelevant to me. No matter if my friend, neighbor, or a stranger makes $10,000 or $10 million, I still have to pay my bills. I can either sit around feeling sorry for myself and ticked off to no end at them, or I can continue to do my best to provide for myself and family and improve. Sitting around angry and envious gets me nowhere."

    I don't know how many times I can write this before you (and others) get the point. ENVY has NOTHING to do with this. IT'S THE FACT THAT TAXPAYER'S MONEY IS BEING USED TO REWARD FAILURE.

    I'm a capitalist. If you profit through hard work, risk, perseverance, and smart business decisions, more power to you. If you fail, don't dig into my pocket for rescue.

    I'm a retired Soldier and I still pay taxes. Who's bailing me out?

    "I'm just saying...don't get angry with the pig...get angry with the farmer who overfed him. If you were due that bonus and had met the PRESET conditions of the contract, would you turn it down even if you knew it was coming from bailout money?? Be honest."

    Given the fact that these CEOs are already making millions, and getting additional bonuses on top of that, I think disallowing money that didn't come from AIG in the first place, wouldn't put a dent in their lifestyle. If I were in that position I would turn down that money. Honest.
  • Not just angry...overwhelmed by it all!
    I don't think I'm just angry over AIG getting money from the taxpayer teat, I think I'm angry over EVERYONE who is getting money from the taxpayer teat. Whether it is a few hundred bucks of welfare every month or more than 6 million bucks at one shot, it is annoying that it is getting to them by slimy hands diddling about in my pocket!

    AIG had contracts, yes. So did auto workers, yes. Renegotiating contracts for one but holding the other sacrosanct is a bit holier than thou. Why not renegotiate them? If they say no, then we taxpayers get a nice report on why Mr. So and So thinks his service is worth the full contract price and takes a bow.

    Honestly, I'm not one of the wealth envy redistribute my hard work set. Personally, I'd contribute to a fund to take all the teat-attached on one way trips to their favorite socialist country and leave them there, but capitolism without integrity is simply rapine and pillage, not business.

    If pure and unstructured capitolism works, then why was the air unfit to breath until mandated that sulfur emissions be controlled? Or PCB release into waters controlled? Without a sense of integrity and honesty it doesn't work, period. And you can't mandate that, only the actions that integrity would have required.

    AIG execs should have shown some integrity and honestly assessed their worth and renegotiated those contracts to give themselves a fairer compensation. They could have wound up looking like heroes instead of indulgent mutant sociopaths.
  • Disgorge?
    PrezBO and Chris Dodd are demanding that the AIG executives "disgorge" the bonus money. Well, how about if that Gruesome Twosome (BO and CD) disgorge the campaign money that was given to THEM by AIG? They were the top two beneficiaries of campaign cash from AIG. Eh, eh? ...crickets...
  • Lighten Up
    "Scary clown!" - Hammy
  • The U.S. taxpayers loaned them money
    Imagine if the company that holds your mortgage could oversee your spending. They could deem your car payment too high!
  • Where is the constitution in all this
    Has anyone heard of the 9th amendment? They cannot (unless the courts decide to completely ignore the constitution again,) pass a law to go get these taxes. I would not be surprised to see them pass such a law, but I learned in 8th grade (ages ago) that it was unconstitutional for congress to pass a law to make past conduct illegal. I was taught that laws could only be passed to prohibit FUTURE activity. All this stuff that happened already can only have laws that were on the books at the time of the activity applied to it.
    I wish there was some penalty other than just striking down the law that could be applied to the members of congress that continue to violate the constitution in their provisions, but alas, the framers thought the electorate would be rational/moral and throw any such person out of office and such is not the case. If the framers had foreseen the electorate being dominated by the dumb masses, they would have attached jail time and automatic barring from elected office for the serial unconstitutional bill sponsors, and maybe such a thing should be added by amendment (fat chance!!!).
  • Bonuses
    The money has already been paid. Can you say ex post facto?

    Hopefully, the real fallout will be compensation boards that write incentives tied to actual performance impact to the bottom line.
  • Really? That Concerns America More Than...
    I'm shocked that this is getting more attention than PrezBo's new plan to make vets foot bill for service injuries. Where is the HUGE outrage over THAT betrayal and greed coming from Barry????!!!!

    But why should you be surprised? This is a man who never saw fit to serve his country - and never sustained an injury while defending his country. He's also sending our troops to Afghanistan instead of bringing them home.

    If you voted for this POS because you believed every word he said about caring about our men and women in uniform, then you ought to feel pretty betrayed and pissed off right now.

    On the other hand, I didn't vote for him and I'm still pissed off.
  • Clowns
    If AIG had not received a bailout would these execs gotten bonuses? If your bankrupt the contracts would have been voided.
  • Ex post facto
    Wouldn't passing a law to take the money away from the bonus earners be a case of an ex post facto law? I thought that was unconstitutional.

    I think those bonuses are just another example of how foolish AIG is, and why we probably shouldn't have bailed them out in the first place.
  • Being called to task
    Dodd and some of the clowns are being called to task on this mess and I love it!

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31121&page=1&viewID=824047
  • SFCMAC
    I too am angry at our politicians...have been for..well, it seems like forever. But I am not angry with the AIG people. What difference does it make where the money came from - a contractual obligation doesn't change regardless. Now, if our politicians had been smart (fat chance) they'd have stipulated BEFOREHAND that no bailout money could be used to pay bonuses.

    But you're missing the point and your anger is misdirected. The fact is giving taxpayer money to a private company never should have happened and is in fact unconstitutional. I'm ticked that the gov't gives away ANY amount of money for ANY reason that isn't specifically covered in the constitution. To me that is nothing more than malfeasance and misappropriation of funds.

    Getting angry with the AIG people is the easy way out AND the exact reaction the gov't wants you to have. Look beyond that and at the real problem in this country....politicians who are self-serving instead of serving others.

    Hey, are you ticked at an athlete who signs a huge contract and then underperforms, yet still gets paid? Or an entertainer who makes a bomb of a movie and still gets paid? I'm not. If somebody was stupid enough to agree to pay them that way, then why should I get upset with the person getting paid? I get ticked at the person who's paying them!

    What others make is irrelevant to me. No matter if my friend, neighbor, or a stranger makes $10,000 or $10 million, I still have to pay my bills. I can either sit around feeling sorry for myself and ticked off to no end at them, or I can continue to do my best to provide for myself and family and improve. Sitting around angry and envious gets me nowhere.

    I'm just saying...don't get angry with the pig...get angry with the farmer who overfed him. If you were due that bonus and had met the PRESET conditions of the contract, would you turn it down even if you knew it was coming from bailout money?? Be honest.

    Bottom line: The politicians are the main problem, not the AIG employees.
  • Too late
    Unfortunately,we have a country now to where the only way people will learn their lesson is when it something actually happens. We took terrorism for granted before 9/11, now we are going back to the lax attitude with it again. So when the "haves", the producers, and the doers start pulling out the economy, it will be at that point that the "dont want to's", the envy/jealous and the others will have the light bulb go off in their head and they will say "what the heck happened".
  • Real Truth
    Giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and the car keys to teenage boys.
    P.J. O'Rourke
  • AIG
    May be if we gave them tax cuts they would turn the company around.
  • B.O. and the gang are mad? Really?
    Do you really think B.O. didn't know up front? He's a very smart man, and he knows (knew) that bank/investment companies' execs get bonuses for profits (apparently not necessary in this case at least) and that those companies would be "profitable" with hundreds of millions of your and my dollars. He knew all along, or he's retarded. It's not the latter. It's all part of the show, folks.

    He's pandering with his "outrage", looking like the populist, but clearly the money was given without the "strings" he promised. The government could have written into the legislation approved uses, but they did not. They wanted this blowup all along. Now tehy get to play the part of righteous indignation. This was no accident, and it certainly was not unforseeable. Accident? If yes, they're stupid; if no, they're corrupt... All of them, B.O. and his Congress. But they're not stupid.

    Voters, on the other hand...
  • I'm Convinced
    I've been absolutely disgusted by the appalling populism with which our politicians are addressing this subject -- especially our thoughtful President. They're even talking about a tax targeted specifically at AIG (Walmart tax, anyone?), which is a Bill of Attainder in form, if not in letter.

    This is disgusting and dangerous. Today it's AIG, tomorrow it's Walmart. Next week it's "the rich". We can't be turning the country over to this sort of angry mob rule.
  • This is how government treats people....
    who accept money from them and aren't a loyal supporter. They are picking on the "top 1%" right now but wait and see how it is when they get to YOU.

    Lesson: Don't accept money from the government in exchange for security.
  • Wake up folks and smell the Java!
    It’s a tactical move of deception – the tail wagging the dog. They want to get everyone (dumb masses) worked up over a few million dollars while they move to spend (a.k.a. tax) the people for trillions of dollars to fund their liberal pursuits. Look at all the goodies they got out of the Great Depression (i.e. Social Security). They have control of the executive and legislative branches of our government and will not let a historic opportunity like this pass by without taking advantage of it.
    So exactly what did everybody think would happen when the government loaned money to a company that had gotten into trouble by making bad business decisions. Businesses are run by people and people don’t change. If you give a bunch of money, with no strings attached, to a bum, what will happen? Will he take this money and start a successful company, or will he blow it on booze, drugs, dancers, etc. and be right back where he started – homeless and begging for more money?
    There are only two reasons I can think of as to why the American people tolerate the behavior of our politicians – ignorance and stupidity.
  • Dishonor among thieves
    What we have here, from a strictly ethical standpoint, is one bunch orf thieves (the Federal Government as run by the Democratic Party) threatening to steal money from another bunch of thieves (the inept AIG executives who got bonus money for basically doing nothing or doing their jobs wrong). The only real victim here is the American taxpayer, who is footing the bill for both of them.
  • @By Tonor
    Like Neal, you're missing the point. "Envy" and "jealousy" have nothing whatsoever to do with the outrage of average Ameircans like me. I'm angry at the politicians who mandated that banks make loans to people least likely to repay them, and decided to use OUR money to bail them out along with corporations who put themselves into default through mismanagement.

    Prove that the CEOs were paid off with shareholder's money and not mine. Was taxpayer bailout part of their "contract"?
  • outrage over spending
    why don't we see this kind of outrage from people when welfare and food stamp recipients are buying alcohol and cigerettes? After all that is the tax payers money also.
  • aig situation
    Comrades, be of good cheer. Liddy shall soon be in the gulag. The proletariat have spoken. The enemy of the working caste shall be dealt with. The out-dated Constitution has no more meaning. Retroactive taxes and contract nullification is needed at this time to punish those who have chosen to pursue their own interests above others. Aren't we all equal? All Hail Chavez, I mean, Obama.
  • Clown show in DC
    The Clowns in DC need to cool off their "liberal agenda gone wild" and consider the citizens they are supposed to represent.
    When things are set to boil this quickly, an "explosion" is bound to happen.
    These liberals, in their childish mental state, are headed for self destruction.
    The intelligent citizens have always and will persevere and this brainless liberal agenda is going into the sewer as it has always.
    The Democrats have a death wish?!?!?
  • AIG
    You're not alone in your opinion on the AIG bonus "controversy", Neal... many of us agree with you.

    Here's an analogy of what's happening (let's just, for the moment, set aside the contract issue - which is 110% correct - and deal solely with the money).

    Bringing it down to numbers the average Public Educated Layman can understand, let's say you have a friend with 9 children. He's hit a rough patch and wants you to help him buy food for his family.

    You say, "OK. I can give you $100."

    "Great!" he says, and takes your money.

    A month later you find out that out of the $100 you gave him, he spent $99.91 on food and has given each of his 9 children one penny - one cent - and told them to put that penny into their piggy banks.

    Would you go after your friend and demand the 9 cents back? Nine cents out of $100 (or, 9 out of 10,000 cents)?

    Silly doesn't even begin to describe the non-issue that is being made of this.

    -
  • We shouldn't own it in the First Place
    The silly argument that "we" now own AIG so "we" can dictate policy ignores the fact that Obama and the Dems have specifically state "we" are not, NOT nationalizing industry. "We" shouldn't have bailed them out in the first place and the bankruptcy court could have renegotiated contracts.

    I realize this administration doesn't care much about the Constitution of the Rule of Law, but when we start talking about changing tax law to remove legal property from an individual or specific group does anyone remember the prohibition on Bills of Attainder? Sorry to make some heads hurt
  • Congressional Pay
    If we want to save taxpayer money Congress and the Senate should only be paid for the time they spend working not a straight salary with automatic cost of living payraises every year. I imagine more of the countrys business would get done and some of these asinine things that are passed would get more scrutiny.
  • What are we quibbling about anyway?
    I mean, Senator UpChuckie Schumer (D-NY) said "Why quibble over $200 million?" on Feb 9 of this year.

    So why the quibble? Oh wait "government pork, um money" versus "corporate funds." But, if AIG is "owned" by the government, doesn't it fall back in to a non-quibbling amount?
  • Envy
    This outrage over the AIG bonus money is silly and is only occuring because the liberal Dems are whipping up the class envy in others.

    Suppose I invented a machine that could help AIG get back on track. It would be a great ASSET to them and their trying to turn things around (and save their employees' jobs). Now suppose I pitched this to AIG and the gov't (due to their "investment" in AIG with bailout money) and they agreed it looked promising and were interested in ASSETS that could help AIG. I then tell them that this machine costs $165 million. They think about it and decide it would be money well spent and a drop in the bucket with regards to the total bailout money. Now...would there be headlines and congressional hearings over this use of $165 million dollars for an ASSET that may very well help AIG turn things around? Of course not. Well, employees...check that...good employees are nothing more than ASSETS to a company. If (and this is a big if) these employess who received these bonuses are indeed good employees (ASSETS) instrumental to AIG's recovery, then I say it's money well spent, no different than if it had been spent on any other ASSET.

    Unfortunately most people don't see things this way, but instead see people who got something they didn't. Somewhat naturally they are jealous, but it becomes especially intense to the point of irrationality and hatred when the "leaders" whip them into a green frenzy of jealousy. These very same people would never get all worked up and hate an expensive machine or process, but let the gov't humanize, personalize and demonize it ad nauseum and it's no wonder we have what we now have in this country.

    Folks...this isn't good. You can't get anywhere by tearing down others. Envy and hate are counterproductive and the liberal Dems know it. The less productive you are, the more you are in need of help and the more you are dependent upon others....help the gov't will gladly provide to make you dependent and beholden to them.

    Better wake up, people. Once the wagon pullers stop pulling because too many are piling on for a "free" ride, the wagon stops. Then what??
  • Clown show ? It's a 3-ring circus
    Between Maxine "axeing" questions and gay Barney slobbering all over his microphone and Chuck "Schmucky" Schumer contradicting himself time and time again, this is sort of reality theatre of the absurd show.

    Can anyone really watch these fools in action without reaching for a barf bag?
  • On the line
    The CEO needs to lay it all on the table, and throw this garbage back on these circus clowns. Tell the slob, Chuck U, and the rest of them off if he has too. This will make for great live TV.
  • Wake Up - Its A Smoke Screen
    All of the hoopla over the bonuses is nothing but a smoke screen - when the real story comes out about the billions of taxpayer dollars that were sent overseas, even the lamest will be able to figure out how poorly written these bailouts are. The bonuses are chump change. Feigned outrage and claims that BO and his cronys didn't know about the bonuses is pure crap.
  • PrezBo's PAC money
    If I were the AIG Prez, I woulf offer to return my bonus if, and only if, EVERY member of congress who has gone on record for "outrage" (IE, Obama, Schumer, Frank...) returns every penny that AIG has contributed to their re-election & PAC funds. That's you, Mr. President (over $100K).

    I yeild the balance of my time to the hypocrit from California, Madam Pelosi.
  • Schumer, he's my man
    Chuck Schumer's all concerned about the money getting back to "its rightful owners, the taxpayers?"

    Alright. Thanks Chuck.

    But don't go breaking any contracts on my behalf. Don't take Life As We Know It and beat it up out back in your pansy rage. You're wrong there.

    If fact, so wrong, and since you incompetent village idiots in Congress and House happen to be *MY* employees, I'm a taxpayer, you serve at my pleasure, here's what I'd like to tell you:

    "YOU'RE FIRED. Clear your office in a week and let's get some competent people in those chairs. Stop wasting our oxygen."

    As a taxpayer, and clearly in the new regimes targeting sights, I don't want you breaking contracts (you're burning through cash fast enough, aren't you??), and I do want to be rid of the real idiots and morons. And if I'm boss, that's what I'd be doing. Firing your butts.

    Maybe that's just me.
  • Republican outrage
    "It is an outrageous situation. If you are going to take the government as a partner, the message to any business out there...is 'lets enter into a bunch of contracts real quick and we'll have the taxpayers pay bonuses to our employees.' This is an outrage."

    Sen. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell
  • Mensa Maxine
    don't you mean that she will "axe" him some questions?
  • Why is this different than Obama and budget
    What is the difference between what AIG is saying about the contracts being in place and President Obama saying he would not address the huge amount of earmarks because they were already negotiated last year.
  • It's not wealth envy this time, Mr. Boortz
    It's about responsibility. You are so against unions forcing wages above what the market can withstand. I'm against unions as well. But keep the argument consistent. It's quite obvious that the market cannot withstand the decisions these clowns were overseeing. Thus, the market certainly cannot and should not bare these bonuses after the fact.

    You've said it yourself that you have no right to a job or salary. Well guess what? Neither do these exec's with their bad decisions. Especially now that the majority shareholder has changed. Guess who that is? The contracts can and will be contested as they should be due to new ownership of the company.

    Lastly, I'm tired of hearing that this bonuse is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions paid out in bailouts. Tell that to the folks that lost their 50 - 100k jobs due to this mess.

    It's not wealth envy. The majority workers are just pissed off at the decision makers.
  • Copyleft
    I guess you'll be taking responsibility then when American corporations start shutting down here in America and moving to more friendly places, taking their jobs and wealth with them. Oh no, you'll find something else to blame it on other than your inane policies.

    Welcome to the New America(tm), where achievement is punished, contracts are disregarded by the people meant to enforce them, and the envious lower echelons of society rule the roost.

    It was nice being an American, while the rule of law lasted.
  • Bonus
    Neil, I agree with you. A contract is a contract. Did they earn it - No. Was it a bad contract - Yes. But tough toenails. I am more concerned about the money President Obama received from AIG when he was a senator. Why pray tell is that not being reported.
  • And so it begins
    Any company considering bailout money needs to take a long hard look at how the boys in DC operate. You take the money and they own you. At least Ford is thinking. They see the strings and are trying to stay independent of the government.

    If owning you doesn't work, they'll just change the rules after the fact to get you where they want you. They'll retroactively change the tax laws to get what they want.

    Mark Sanford sees this. The states who take money from Washington will also be owned by them. Just wait until the fine print starts getting enforced. You know, all the stuff that no one read before voting on the bill.

    We aren't long from the point when dingbats like copyleft get their way and any income over $50K is taxed at 100%.

    You think I'm off my rocker? This will never happen? Open your eyes.
  • Neal, your idea is flawed
    "Liddy is going to have to defend the concept of abiding by the terms of your contracts with your employees."

    WITH OUR TAX MONEY?!? Get real. If these CEOs were being paid off with shareholder's funds, I wouldn't be half as angry. You may want to bailout these incompetent dolts with your hard-earned money, but don't expect the rest of us to follow suit. As I said before: In capitalism, you don't reward a business for FAILURE.

    The government (Christopher Dodd in particular) helped write this "contractual" loophole, to ensure that corrupt businesses like AIG could pay off the very inept executives responsible for its downfall.

    Expect more "contractual obligation" excuses to come up every time corporate heads are questioned about their own CEO 'bailouts'.
  • A symtom of our economic problems
    Fine, the government owns most of AIG (not that I favor that in any way). They want some say in how the company is run. Great... when new contracts come up, put whatever language you want in them. But don't try to change existing contracts... that's one reason Wall Street continues to tank; government meddling where it has no business at all.
  • Boneheaded comment from Sen. Mitch McConnell (R)
    "How did the department of the treasury hand over 30 billion dollars a few weeks ago and not have any idea that this outrage was going to occur?"

    Lemme see here Mitch... BECAUSE YOU HELPED VOTE THE DARNED BILL INTO LAW on October 1st of last year! You and thirty-three other 'Republicans' voted for this welfare bill for Wall Street and you wonder how the Treasury can hand over 30 billion dollars to AIG! OUR GEORGIA SENATORS VOTED FOR THIS WELFARE BILL TOO, BY THE WAY! Fiscal conservatives should not tolerate this!
  • Executives
    Apparently we want all our top executives to go to other countries. I'm sure corporarations in, let's say, Switzerland, would be glad to have some top-level executive talent. This will leave the USA in dire straits eventually.
  • Don't be stupid Copy
    You haven't paid any attention. Barney, Tim and the boys all knew about these bonuses ages ago. BEFORE the bailout money was given. That would have been the time to do something about it. They just went around handing out blank checks with no accountability. So all this shock and anger from them is hypocritical and makes me sick. We do NOT want the government having the power to set aside contracts, very dangerous road to go down. Pay the bonuses, at the normal tax rate and let's move on to more important things. This is all just a ploy to keep us from looking at what the other hand is doing and YOU Copy are helping them.
  • AIG
    Mr. Liddy, there is a Mr. Galt on line 3 for you.
  • Copyleft you should be scolding Chris Dodd
    Copyleft, you should be scolding Chris Dodd and government not the private sector. Do you research on this one. Chris Dodd put an amendment to the Bailout bill that gives an exemption for these types of bonuses. The amendment passed with the bill and was signed into law. It was perfectly legal what AIG did.

    However because of this, a dangerous precedent is being set on what people can receive for bonuses. In other words, you have removed an extrinsic motivator for someone to do and be better than they thought they could be. Because of this many companies will "go Galt". They will move vast parts of their operations out of the US, as if they haven't already, and go to countries that have a more favorable business climate. Brazil anyone?
  • Tax It All
    President Obama - $101,332
    Senator Dodd - $103,100
    Senator Clinton - $59,515
    Senator Schumer - $38,500

    While were at it, lets just tax those campaign contributions. Of coarse they don't consider this taxpayer money.
  • Bewildered
    Can anybody answer me this question. If the socialist left democratic Obama administration is so hell bent against capitalism, why in the hell did they bother to try and bail out AIG in the first place?
  • Honoring contractual obligations
    "So ... you're running AIG. What would YOU do?"

    I'm not qualified to be a CEO so I have no idea what I would do. However, I would argue that the whole "contractual obligation" argument is flawed.

    Contracts are broken all of the time and our country has survived. Just ask Edward Liddy how things worked out while he was CEO at All-State.
  • A proposal
    I hear there's a plan in the works to introduce some new tax lesiglation: any bonuses beyond, say, $50,000 a year would be taxed into oblivion.

    Sounds good! The notion that CEOs and directors are somehow "entitled" to huge payoffs in order to be convinced to act as "top talent"--which generally means running your company into the ground and making off with all the profits you skimmed--was always ludicrous.

    It's time to restore some sanity and responsibility to the private sector. And any company that takes public bailout money should have to face the consequences of their incompetence.

    Isn't "personal responsibility" one of Neal's favorite catchphrases, after all? (grin)
  • AIG
    People want blood, laws be damned. AIG not fixing itself would have greater consequences than just letting it go bankrupt.
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