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Today's Nuze

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Nobody's listening.

NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME

By
Neal Boortz
@ March 17, 2009 9:08 AM
Permalink | Comments (114) | TrackBacks (0)

Holy flying pasture fritters! I don't think I've ever stood quite as alone as I did yesterday on this AIG bonuses thing. I don't think I had one call yesterday from one single person who agreed with me on this issue. That's fine. I believe I'm right .. and not being on the side of the majority won't bother me.

Here's the point I was trying to make yesterday. The American people have $165 billion invested in AIG. We don't have the money, so we are going to have to borrow it. From who? Well, perhaps from China! Maybe China will buy the treasury notes issued to back up this newly printed currency. So ... who do you want to pay this money back? How about your children and grandchildren? That would be just swell, wouldn't it? AIG fails, the $165 billion is shot to hell, and there's nobody around to pay it back except for future generations of Americans through increased taxes.

There is another option. Why don't we let AIG pay it back? Why don't we stand back and let AIG take reasonable steps to turn its fortunes around and once again become a profitable financial powerhouse? Certainly you see no problem with that! The question, of course, is just how do they do that? They do it with management expertise, that's how. They do it by retaining the best minds they can and putting those minds to work on solving AIG's problems. There is no shortage of competition for the type of business minds that can change the fortunes of AIG. There are other companies out there who could use that help .. and who aren't under Barney Frank's thumb. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the efficacy in allowing the best financial minds out there to gravitate toward companies that haven't received TARP funds while the companies that have borrowed so heavily from the taxpayers make do with second-rate executive talent. So how do the companies with the bailout funds keep the executive talent that will likely lead them to profitability? Well, they pay them! That's how. They live up to their contractual obligations. If they don't pay them, someone else will.

The issue here is not that AIG paid bonuses ... bonuses that amounted to less than 1/10th of one percent of the bailout money it received. The issue should be to whom those bonuses were paid. If they were paid to the perps who put AIG into this mess - and that's supposing the mess was caused by AIG execs and not by the federal government essentially forcing AIG investors and subsidiaries into making and buying hideously bad mortgages - then we have a problem. If the bonuses were paid to people who are working hard to solve AIG's problems and achieving some success, then no problem.

Let's take this angle. When was the last time you looked at the retirement plans for members of Congress? Some of these congressmen created the Community Reinvestment Act monster that coerced banks and lending institutions into making many of these subprime mortgages. These congressmen urged Fannie and Freddie to reduce their credit guidelines so that these quasi-government agencies to buy most of those bad loans. These congressmen and senators are going to retire with fat retirement funds that are completely safe while tens of millions in the private sector will retire with retirement funds decimated by this economic meltdown. Much of the problem was caused by the Barney Franks in Washington .. why aren't they paying the price like the rest of us?

New York Attorney General Cuomo (No relation to Perry) wants a list of people who got those AIG bonuses. What? Now we have crimes being committed here? The attorney general is going to investigate people who receive payments pursuant to a contract? Cuomo - clearly playing to the political message here -- says that "we owe it to the taxpayers to take every possible action to stop unwarranted bonus payments to those who caused the AIG meltdown in the first place." Cuomo is going to investigate who received the bonuses and who developed the bonus plans.

What in the hell is going on around here? Are we going to adopt a standard where contracts are only enforceable if they're popular with political class and the public? If that contract is unpopular what are we going to do? Sic the attorney general after the parties if they live up to its terms? Do you know where this is going to go? Well, what if you were some sort of a financial genius, and AIG or some other institution receiving bailout funds wanted to hire you to help turn them around. You're going to think: "Hmmm ... sounds like a nice opportunity. I can help those people and make some pretty good change in the process .. but do I want to be the subject of a criminal investigation by the attorney general if I accept a bonus? Do I want the president calling me greedy and telling the congress to pull out all of the stops to take the money I have earned back? I think not. I'm going to stay right where I am."

A lot of what we're seeing here is the anti-capitalist, pro-government left seeing an opportunity to demonize the private sector. The same politicians who are so adept at getting the public whipped into a frenzy over these bonuses seem somehow unable to gin up any degree of outrage over taxpayer money being spent on lobster sex and tattoo removal. At least there's a chance AIG is going to pay the money back. Let's see if some gang-banger gone straight offers up the money spent to remove his tats.

I, for one, am a lot more curious as to what Barney Frank's lover was up to at Fannie Mae while he was busy protecting that institution from President George Bush's attempts at reform, than I am in sending the New York Attorney general on a witch hunt for executives who received bonus payments pursuant to a contract.



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What others are saying

  • AIG Bonuses
    Neal, You are not alone. If there was a contract requiring that the bonuses be paid, then they should have been paid. This is just testimony to why the imperial federal government bailouts were and are a bad idea. Yes, the bankruptcy laws were the way to go with these failling companies. And with today's news of the House voting to tax the bonuses at 90%, I am outraged. Where does it end? If I get a performance bonus, will I end up being taxed at 90%? Who is the best determinator (new word?) of my performance? The people I work with and report to? Or some two-bit Congressman who couldn't hold a real job if his life depended on it?
  • Pot meet Kettle
    James Bowen @ 03/17/09 06:33:12 PM said:

    "Neal,
    Told ya so, you idiot!
    Yeah and another thing, just because you stand alone doesn't make you RIGHT either!"

    Well thought out, concise comment that...
  • Government hates private contracts
    Several people have commented on the apparent double standard of politicians raising holy hell about $165 million, while ignoring government spending bills that total many times that amount. Some have also pointed out that the company was contractually obligated to pay those bonuses, and expressed concern about the government’s disregard for those contracts.

    The thing is, of course politicians are going to be against such an arrangement, not in spite of the contracts involved, but because of them, and especially since the bonuses were (supposedly) based on merit. After all, it just isn’t fair for wealth to be “distributed” via voluntary contracts between consenting parties, based on the value of the products or services they deliver. That’s greedy! Instead, our Dear Leaders should decide how much everyone gets, based on a subjective assessment of how much each person needs. This noble idea is undermined by recognizing private agreements that don’t involve government. Private agreements result in individuals having power over their own lives, and that’s the one thing that no politician can stand.

    I’m absolutely in favor of paying ridiculously high bonuses to anyone who deserves them. However, if it turns out that the money went to the stuffed suits who caused this problem in the first place, then I wish the bonuses would be seized, along with everything else they own. Right down to the last dime. Seriously, I want to see those crooks out on the street corner holding cardboard signs all day long and sleeping on the ground every night. (In a perfect world, every single politician in Washington would be right there with them, but I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it.)
  • As Long As Tim and Barry Look Bad
    I agree with you 100% that AIG should be allowed to function in a capacity that allows it to have top quality management. As long as they aren't the fools that ran the company into the ground, I say pay em whatever bonuses are competitive with other companies. That's called "rewarding" hard work - aka CAPITALISM. Whoever can clean up that mess at AIG deserves a huge bonus.

    On the other hand, this is making PrezBo and Geithner look stupid for not putting in checks and balances into bailouts. And that is pretty amusing. "Thou shalt not give bonuses to thy management that sucketh enough to run thy company into the ground and needth government (taxpayer) money to survive."
  • Contracts?
    This is why bankruptcy court exists.
    If AIG was allowed to go down, there wouldn't be any money to pay these people.
    Legally bankrupt the company. Then prop them up if you feel it is necessary.
  • barney frank
    Neal i am glad to see someone finally talking about Barney's boyfriend and possible ties to lending institutions. Thanks.
  • Obamateur
    Obama states the economy is a disaster, and the market plunges. Now he trashes AIG, and their last-hope managers are resigning. Is it really be possible that our new president can be so naive as to the damaging influence his comments have?
  • AIG threats
    Since when is the government permitted to use taxing authority to attack citizens? I was incensed to hear Schumer state that he would tax all of the AIG bonuses. Obviously he thinks that the legislative branch has taxing powers for more than just raising revenue for programs that benefit the American people. He believes that the legislature is in the business of issuing punitive actions for those few citizens that have the foresight to get bonuses legally written into their contracts. What an arrogant schmuck.
  • AIG
    The government should have never started this mess and AIG should have never accepted the money.

    The only thing I have heard from the Obama administration is that they need to take steps to control AIG etc. so they don't risk taxpayer money and a failure of AIG would risk our money. Well, I sure wish they would stop "investing" the money the take from us. That would have been the solution to risking our money in the first place and is the only solution in the future.
  • AIG bonuses
    I find it interesting that Congress is now up in arms about the payment of the AIG bonuses as required by their contractual agreements with those employees. It seems to me that the same people who wrote the bailout put language in the bailout law that allowed AIG to do exactly what they did, pay out the bonuses. If Congress wants to point the finger at someone over this bonus outlay by AIG, they need go no further than the nearest mirror. Perhaps it is time that our legislators actually read a bill before rushing to pass it. I have no sympathy for the members of Congress who are now posturing about the bonuses.
  • aig bail outs
    frank, dodd, obama, bush, geithner, reid ,pelsi ect ect all knew the bonus arrangement was in the tarp bail out. there out rage is nothing short of unbelievable. designed to inflame the populace and divert attention from an agenda.
    i suggest you determine the nature of this agenda befor...............
  • AIG Bonuses
    Government interference into the private sector is Socialism. SHould have never given bailout money in the first place. Let these companies bankrupt, and new, better, ones rise from the bankruptcy auction block.
  • Neal Stands Alone
    Neal,
    Told ya so, you idiot!
    Yeah and another thing, just because you stand alone doesn't make you RIGHT either!
  • The Problem Is Corruption
    The free-market system of incentives breaks down when an incestous cabal votes to give each other bonuses regardless of job performance. AIG is a classic example.

    The only way to create an incentive for bailed-out companies to get their act together and repay the taxpayers is if they don't get rewards until they actually do so. Once they're standing on their own two feet, they can pay their execs whatever they like.
  • re AIG bailouts
    Sorry, Neal...I agree with you, I just wasn't in a position to agree with you on-line.
  • AIG Bonus
    Glad to hear Mr. Boortz tell it straight up, I agree with his assessment. It is extremely frustrating to watch members of Congress and this administration play acting for the masses. The people taxpayers should be angry with are the people who enabled this economic fiasco, look no further than the federal government.
  • I DO agree with you Neil...
    Not that it matters to the wealth envy crowd what you, or I think. I don't even care that the money was pursuant to a contract. When a private entity pays money to a private citizen and the entity is acting within the directives of the directors and officers of that entity, it's none of the government's damn business! If the shareholders don't like it, they can vote to change the leadership and the next meeting. If the government idiotically decides to give money to a company to "bail it out," it assumed the risk that when the money changes hands, the company might do something with it the government doesn't like. Too bad.
  • this is still a stupid position
    Why would it be anyone else but the people who ran AIG into the ground that are getting the bonuses? They were still running (or more accurately destroying) the company when the bonuses were agreed to.

    It's obvious that the hiring practices of AIG were not geared towards attracting talent, being rather huge giveaways to incompetents.

    Paying executives more will not get better leadership. It can, but it certainly hasn't for a lot of companies, tending to be just corruption and giveaways. That's especially true for AIG. The idea that putting an executive pay cap on bailed-out companies or nixing ridiculous giveaways like these bonuses is going to result in third rate executive leadership has no basis in fact, especially if these requirements are lifted after (and if) the company emerges from corporate welfare.

    The government should be able to void contracts like this for companies they are bailing out, and should also be able to put a stop to corporate corruption (huge undeserved salaries for idiots and ridiculous severance packages, for example) in any publicly traded company.

    Blaming the government for the failings of private companies is also asinine. They made huge amounts of bad loans and generally poor and even criminal financial practices. What the government did wrong was the huge amount of derogating they did, especially under Reagan and his cohorts. They forgot, or just didn't care, why the regulations where put in place, and doomed us to re-learn why. But you'd be right if you said the Democrats didn't stand up strongly enough against financial deregulation, even if the Republicans spearheaded it.
  • AIG
    These were "retention bonuses" paid to people who were already told they would be laid off so they would work helping the company instead of looking for another job, and Congress new about these bonuses almost a year ago. Now they are feinting anger.
  • aig bonuses
    how can anyone say what is right or wrong without knowing the facts
    LIP service. demonizing the private sector. playing right into the hands of the stupid.
    innocent until proven guilty.

    and how on earth can congress say they can tax at 100%?!?! that sounds more corrupt than the bonuses at aig
  • Smoke and Mirrors
    This is show of outrage is pro-forma from this administration. They are trying to distract us from the ugly facts: Geithner was at the NY FED when the deal to bail out AIG was cooked up. Chris Dodd and Barak Obama were the largest two recipients of AIG political donations (the two combined dwarf the rest of AIGs donations). Dodd saw to it that the bonuses were kept in the contracts with the legislation that authorized the bail out. These guys are playing both sides of the street. Big surprise.
  • AIG Bonuses
    The government should have stayed out of AIG. Now, the government wants to put the microscope on them. Every day, I hate this government more and more.
  • T-Shirt
    Neal, who sells that black t-shirt that was displayed?
  • AIG again
    On being consistent, if the government wants to limit executives who receive bailout money, i.e. tax payer money, then perhaps it is time for the taxpayers to put some strings on the money the government receives.

    In a nutshell, the government says, "executives will not receive compensation above X dollars while they are receiving bailout money."

    Are the same government "executives" willing to have their salaries and compensation packages limited as long as they are running a deficit?

    What was that word again? Consistent. If you can dish it out, you should be able to take it too.
  • AIG Money
    If I were an executive and I were promised money to keep a company floating, you can be absolutely certain that I would want my compensation even if the government gave bailout money.

    But, there should never have been any bailout money. The bailout money is what made the current situation what it is. AIG would not have had the money to pay their execs if the feds had not given them the cash to honor their contracts. How much different would that be if the Big Three Auto Makers took bailout money and honored their contracts to creditors? Aren't unpaid employees (including execs) creditors?

    And another thing, for all the liberals who believe in evolution and the Darwinian principle, I have this closing thought. If Darwinism preaches that the strong survive, why was a weak company like AIG allowed to live by bailing it out instead of letting economic Darwinism take over and natural selection kill off the weak?

    Be consistent. It's one thing to believe one way on one particular issue or circumstance and then take a 180 degree turn on another particular issue or circumstance. Being consistent in your beliefs is being principled. Otherwise search Webster's for the word "expedient."
  • AIG
    Some have said it here. Ok, since it went to the excutives they had it in their contracts So it is only fair to pay it. But yet if the auto industry goes under and is placed into bankrupcy the Union workers contracts are no longer valid and have to be renegoiated. Neal that is why Obamma was elected. People see us becoming more and more a nation of have and have nots. I do not want the socialist ways of the unltra liberals. But, the elite continue to say it is ok for them but not for the workers in the middle class.
    You wonder why the Dems are in power? It doesn't matter if it was a $1.00 bonus it is the principal of the company was down the pooper and yet those that put it their do not suffer any consequences. Oh that's right a million dollar bonus should have been 2 Million.
  • Disagree "DGH @ 12.35pm"
    DGH, I really have to disagree with your statement.

    Whether or not these obligations were incurred to pay commissions earned by those (who's contracts failed) is really not important. The contracts failing and business imploding was a business risk assummed by the AIG and its shareowners that these individual were hired to carry out. They did their job; which was not illegal.

    If they met the requirements of their contract they need to be paid. PERIOD.

    While sure its unfotunate that AIG should have sought protection it did not; and since it did not those obligations need to be honored. That is what use to separate this country, its laws and beliefs from cuba, russia, china, and other communist/facist countries.

    Had the contract included performance residuals - like movie star contracts and TV sitcoms (maybe you will undertand this point) that would be one thing; but apparently the duties these individuals performed were completed. Its inherently unfair to judge these after the fact. Neal, please educate some of these people on contract law.

    Now - as for Senate and house demoncrats wanting to tax these things at 100% well that amounts to a taking and that is wrong and I dare say will not stand up to appeal. This may be the start of reprecussions that can not be stopped.

    This is sickening.

    Good day, Sir
  • Rewarding Failure
    The Democrats are screaming that this is a case of rewarding failure. What do they think Welfare is, if not rewarding failure?
  • Good God!
    I can't believe that everyone seems to be following THIS issue so closely.

    AIG guarantees the pensions for the federal government. They AREN'T GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO FAIL FOLKS. It doesn't matter what they do. They will be propped up with every dollar that congress can throw at them. This is false indignation by the government.

    This issue is the frisbee and the American people are the dog. The fedearl government is sending all of us chasing the frisbee and preparing the euthanizing syringe for our society while were away.

    We are already living in a socialist country. While we're out here chasing the AIG frisbee, the federal government is preparing your healthcare.

    Relax, it's just a little pin prick.
  • AIG IS NOT GETTING BAILED OUT!!!!!
    The money is NOT GOING TO AIG. AIG then gets that money and gives it to the International Banks it insured with Credit Defaul Swaps. Tell your listeners that. And tell them about the TRILLIONS of dollars the Federal Reserve has dished out WITH NO CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You're right about the contracts issue. If the govt. didn't want bonuses being paid they should have made that part of the deal before giving them the money. The issue is not the bonuses however. It is the entire bailout. We've committed $170 billion to 1 single company! Almost 25% of the stimulus package created for the entire country to 1 insurance company! They are then giving the money straight to the banks Neal! The money is not being used to expand operations and cover overhead. It's being siphoned straight to the BANKERS THEY INSURED!!! WAKE UP NEAL!!! The money is GONE. How can 1 company make $170 billion in profit that it has to pay back? Has AIG even made $170 Billion in PROFIT in its entire history?
  • Sorry Neal, I Strongly Disagree
    "Why don't we stand back and let AIG take reasonable steps to turn its fortunes around and once again become a profitable financial powerhouse?"

    Because this once so-called financial power house went T.U. thanks to the greed, "management expertise", and incompetence of its CEOs. Why would any sane capitalist agree to reward FAILURE with tax money???

    And just look at what AIG has done with OUR largess...they've thrown extravagant parties and given much of it to overseas banks and the very CEOs that drove the corporation into the ground. They're rubbing their feckless arrogance into our faces, and calling it a "contractual obligation".

    You're not going to solve the problems of a company like AIG by throwing more money into the pit.

    I'm a retired Soldier. I've got money problems too, but no one's bailing ME out.

    Screw them.
  • When is it our turn?
    So now Chuck Schumer says he's going to tax, at a ridiculously high rate, anyone at AIG who doesn't decline his bonus. WHAT???

    Let AIG honor its contracts, the government to stay away, and see if AIG can save itself. Even if AIG eventually fails, no harm no foul.

    Are people that envious of executives who earn bonuses? And when is the Government going to decide that it needs to monitor how WE all spend our money?
  • Neal - I agree with You
    But I don't need several paragraphs to do it. Rule of law. Contractual obligations. Period.
  • Pot, meet Kettle
    Obama blew $150M in _one_night_ on his inaguration party. Methinks he's not in a position to complain about others earning* a comparable amount.

    (* - We're talking dozens of huge-responsibility people receiving their contractually-obligated rewards for keeping a multi-hundred-billion-$$$-company afloat.)
  • Are you Kidding me?
    So, we should pay these AIG Achievers, who "achieved" the largest quarterly loss in corporate history, (Special kudos the one who brainstormed selling mortgage default insurance), so they don't leave because someone might pay this "talent" more?

    Neil, what have you been smoking?
  • AIG bonuses
    Neal,

    I have been in the compensation business for about 30 years. This includes going through the banking "recession" in the 80's in Texas. I agree with you 100%. The way to get out of a problem is to keep and attract the best management talent available. This is done by paying retention and/or sign-on bonuses.

    However, we have a Congress and President (and his advisors) who have never worked a day in the real world. We also have some idiot Attorney General who is trying to make a name for himself as his predecessor did by doing the "wealth envy" thing instead of letting management and the stock holders determine what is best for the company.

    The thing that I have never heard is who these bonuses went to. I know there was a major uproar when Merrill Lynch paid out bonuse in December before the merger with B of A instead of in February when they generally do. I am familar with Merrill's bonus system and most of that money was to middle managers whose primary compensation is the bonus money. It is strictly based on performance whose goals were established well before Merrill's problems started. Of course, as any first year accountant can tell you the cost of the bonuses would have hit the bottom line in 2008 when they were earned so it really was a matter of cash flow.

    Maybe we should have a Constitution amendment that adds a new qualification for the President and members of Congress. That qualification would be that they had to have worked as a manager in a business at least ten years before they could qualify for these offices. Maybe we could lower that to five years if they had a business or MBA degree.
  • Why isn't this reported
    If I knew this before the reports yesterday may have help the madness. From the Washington Post via Drudge Report "Moreover, Fed officials also hope to keep current employees with the company. The senior executives whose decisions caused the company's collapse are long gone. Most of those left behind are trying to unwind complicated derivative contracts. Completing that process correctly is essential to preserving as much value as possible for taxpayers, officials at both the government and AIG have argued. If it is mishandled, it could expose taxpayers to billions of dollars in additional losses." Hopeful this is true.
  • "Chattering Class"
    Chucky Schumer labeled many of us as members of the "Chattering Class" for opposing the 8-10% of Obama's spending bills that are pork. Now the Dems have their drawers in a wad over less than 1/10 of 1% of AIG's bailout going to workers' compensation. Who are the real members of the Chattering Class? I don't even know what that means, but I suspect is has something to do with BS based upon what Obama and the Dems are saying!
  • Worst case
    It was said that we could not let this company fail. So we gave $170B in bailouts to keep it floating.

    Is it not then dumb to demonize the company and put in jeopardy this massive investment.

    BO has now made it hard for AIG to succeed and possibly put them on a one way trip to bankrupcy and along with it the taxpayers $170B. You would think that BO would be supportive of this company actions to prevent bankrupcy. By bad mouthing the company and execs he is expediting the collapse. If anything the smarter move by him would have been to down play the companies bonuses. By spotlighting them he has damaged them beyond repair. A stupid move by the "Smartest" president ever. Duh
  • AIG bonuses
    Neal: you are right, as usual.
  • Re Don:
    Don Used this analogy...

    (quote)Let's say you were hired by a company to stop the money hemorrhage that is threatening the company. Let's further say that as part of your compensation you are to get 0.05% of any money that you save the company. So you work your tail off and save the company 50 billion dollars out of a projected 75 billion dollar loss. That means that you get $25 million dollars for saving the company 50 billion. 5/100 of a percent doesn't sound like much until you start talking real money, does it?(End Quote)

    One problem with that. Didn't we all slam President Obama for his claim to "Save" 3 million jobs? How do you prove that YOU saved the company from loosing even more money that it did? How do you prove that you "Saved" it in a way which is beneficial to the company?

    It's hard enough to find the causes that lead to a profit, but to prove what prevented even greater losses is impossible and any board member who votes to approve a contract which supplies a bonus based on money "saved" deserves a nice jail stint for breach of fiduciary trust.
  • AIG Bonuses
    Neal, I would like the definition of the description "executives." Are the executives the sales people that sold products and are now waiting on payment for having done their job? Insurance sales people earn a living on a commission/bonus basis. They get paid on the insurance products they sell. What they sell is the basis of AIG's business. Are the employees of AIG supposed to work for nothing? Does the superior people running our Government realize that all the funds they give AIG mean nothing if AIG cannot continue its business? I guess this is what companies get for 'dancing with the devil' (aka The Government).
  • What's the difference?
    Neal, you're right. But what's the difference between what you said and what Cuomo said?

    Here's what I read:

    Neal: If they were paid to the perps who put AIG into this mess ... then we have a problem.

    Cuomo: [W]e owe it to the taxpayers to take every possible action to stop unwarranted bonus payments to those who caused the AIG meltdown in the first place.

    Certainly, "If the bonuses were paid to people who are working hard to solve AIG's problems and achieving some success, then no problem." And if Cuomo is lying, and goes after bonuses paid to achievers, then there's a BIG problem.

    But where's the difference in terms of assuring bonuses weren't paid to "the perps?"
  • Agree with Neal...
    I love all these arguments saying that we own 80% of AIG and should have a say in their business. How about we have a 100% stake in the Governement! We have Senators and Congressman spending like drunken sailors (no disrespect to drunken sailors) and where is the public and LAME STREAM MEDIA outrage at the government?

    Since we have a 100% stake in the government, can we set the compensation levels of Senators, Congressman and YES even the President? Yeah, let me know when this comes to pass.
  • aig bonuses...you alone in your thoughts
    You were not alone, but the people that agreed were busy working hard to pick up the slack for all of the Obamanation. Somebody's gotta pay it (a new book?), so that is what we are doing.
  • What's next?
    So BHO and his team of ultra-libs want to take back AIG employee bonuses. What's next? Block them from receiving paychecks?
  • renegotiate the contracts?
    I dont think anyone should post until they have read the contract. If you haven't read the contract, then you don't know if it can or can not be re-negotiated and/or broken.
  • AIG bonuses
    What I've been reading these bonuses were paid to the people that made the caused the problems at AIG in the first place. Neal, if this is rewarding the people that can turn the company around, please read your economics texts again.

    Seeing how these people did not do the right thing in the begining and resign. I agree with Sen. Grassley they should quit now or kill themselfs. If they choose not to do either then they should be arrested for fraud, misuse of public funds (we own most of the company now), and whatever else the justice department can come up with.
  • AIG
    I believe I have to agree w/ you Neal. When does this government intrusion stop? Yes, it seems unfair that we give some companies billions of tax payer money to help keep the company running, but see, that is what happens when the washington people get together & push these laws & bail outs through. It is not well thought out. This should have been delt with befor AIG was given money. Just think, if gov't can change the rules in the middle of the game for large companies, where does it stop. Next think you know the gov't will be telling all companies what they have to cap their employees at. Don't just look on the surface.
  • Agree, but the future can change
    I'm with you Neal about upholding preexisting contracts. However, I would say that as the American taxpayer is now an 80% stakeholder of AIG, we (unfortunately, those folks on the Hill and in the WH) should have a say in future business decisions, compensations, etc. Now that's really scary to consider, the government pretty much owns AIG. Isn't that socialism? But the choosen one, O'Bama (I hear he's Irish), keeps saying he's not a socialist? Help me, I'm confused...
  • AIG bonuses
    our position is correct and logical, which explains why so many people do not understand the issue. The attention span of the average person is about 10 seconds - on a good day. I listened to the news (Chicago area) last night and not one of them gave the complete story. There were several "man on the street" clips and no indication any of these people knew all the facts.
  • AIG
    I agree. I don't have time to call in and tell you that, but I agree with you. It's their money...and highly qualified individuals don't have jobs simply for the fun of it. They expect to be paid.
  • Its in the Contract
    AIG is bound by contract to pay the bonuses. It seems that the legal eagles in the NY AG office seem to have forgotten that a contract is a binding legal instrument that the government cannot abridge. Maybe they need to go back to law school and retake contractual law.
  • AIG bonuses
    I'm with you on this one Neal. As I explained it to my mother:

    Let's say you were hired by a company to stop the money hemorrhage that is threatening the company. Let's further say that as part of your compensation you are to get 0.05% of any money that you save the company. So you work your tail off and save the company 50 billion dollars out of a projected 75 billion dollar loss. That means that you get $25 million dollars for saving the company 50 billion. 5/100 of a percent doesn't sound like much until you start talking real money, does it?
  • AIG bonuses
    Based on the news coming out it seems these bonuses were in fact paid to the employees who made the mess, so much for the importance of top talent. Sorry Neal these are the guys who sank the ship. They may be the only ones who know how to right the ship, but that is an assumption. Maybe they are still “worth” it, I don’t know. This flies in the face of your “unproductive employees should not be rewarded” philosophy.
    What I do believe needs to be defended are the contracts. Contracts can always be renegotiated, but if the government is always going to use its power to render contracts null and void if the people don’t like something or other then that’s a problem.
    This also seems to be a witch hunt against capitalism, profits, businesses, and the banks in general. I find this tone by our politicians unacceptable. Cuomo is buffing his street cred, Obama gets to lecture us about the virtues of labor without bonuses as if this is Star Trek, Frank and Dodd get to deflect from their own culpability, and yet another Republican senator gets to make an idiot of himself by recommending AIG execs commit seppuku.
  • Want to link over
    I wish there was a way to "share" this story on facebook!!! I have a lot of friends on there I would like to convert to your way of thinking!!
  • I'm with you Neal.
    This is just like what Clark Howard advises when loaning to a friend. The other day Clark was advising someone about a $10,000 loan for a friends business. He advised that if when you went to your friends house and they had a new big screen TV then you shouldn't lend them the money. This is the same thing. You can't bail someone out and then expect them not to spend the money and you have no right to tell them what to do with it.

    On that note I offer the Government a solution:
    In this country we have a great system to handle failing companies. It is called bankruptcy. AIG should have been allowed to go bankrupt, then all these contracts that everyone is complaining about could have been resolved in bankruptcy court. All of AIG's assets would have been sold to healthy institutions to pay its obligations and we wouldn't have these problems with executive compensation. Then if the government wanted to lessen the blow to the economy they could negotiate the obligations that remain. So if Citibank had an policy with AIG that would cause Citi to cascade the bankruptcy the government at this point could step in and pay say 50 cents on the dollar of what AIG couldn't pay.

    In this manner the people responsible wouldn't be rewarded, the government couldn't be upset about bonuses and how companies spend money. Also any businesses that had faulty management would dissolve and be bought by strong healthy companies. This would stimulate the economy and we would already be back to growing economy instead of a shrinking one.

    Constantly throwing good money after bad is doing nothing but prolonging the recession.

    It is time to prune the economy. We need to trim off the dead branches and let the new growth flourish. By leaving the dead branches on the tree it is absorbing more of the good money and not letting the healthy new branches grow.

    Our government is currently killing us in debts. Something needs to be done to get them to stop this insane spending.
  • NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME. Your Joking, Right?
    This is a No Brainer. And that explains why so many people are upset. The Government gave money to AIG, NO STRINGS ATTACHED! And now the people that gave AIG the money are upset because AIG isn't spending the money the way they want? Sorry the world doesn't work that way. The money stopped being ours as soon as it went into AIG's accounts.
    Example: You Buy a house. You give the owner money. You paint the house bright purple and tear down the front porch. The former owner doesn't like this and ...Takes back the house??? I don't think so. It's YOUR House now.
    If the former owner didn't want the house painted purple and didn't want the porch torn down it would have had to be in the sales contract.
    Congress GAVE AIG money. AIG has no responsibility to spend the money in a manner the Gov't sees fit.
    AIG has to honer the contracts it has with its employees. Had AIG gone through bankruptcy, then these contracts could have been modified.
    Gee, Life is sure unfair...
    DEAL WITH IT!
  • Very Uncomfortable
    To me, it's very disturbing when there's a group of people being vilified by the whole society. These trader's might not be the best in the world. They did take huge risks and are now wimping out of their obligations. However, they haven't killed anyone or committed any crime (except crimes that might be applied to their actions after the fact). I imagine this is something like the mood of the German people toward the Jews just before World War II - great sport and very cathartic unless you happened to be a Jew.

    It's also unsettling that the President of the U.S. would weigh in with the masses to personally attack a group of private citizens, especially a group that's already getting the crap kicked out of them from the whole country. Wouldn't it be more useful for him to focus his condemnation toward enemies of the country, not private citizens? As for the New York AG, AIG should tell him to go to h_ll. Where's the right to privacy? What about HR law and policy? Is there any doubt that the names and corresponding bonuses will be leaked within a day of Cuomo receiving that information? His job is to protect the citizens of NY, not persecute them.

    It's also chilling that the political class is willing to throw private citizen's under the bus to keep from having to accept accountability for the government's role in this mess while the complacent media ignore both government’s mistakes in the crisis and the politician’s game of blame the folks. For me, that's a much worse cover up than even Watergate.
  • Stuck on Stupid
    Neal,

    This AIG thing is a diversionary tactic of the manipulative incompetent whitehouse to draw our attention away from real issues. Not saying what that issue or issues are but they're there somewhere in the mix.

    As for "no callers" supporting your stance. Well I'm not going to wait an hour and a half to get on your radio "show". I've actually got something to accomplish, but agree that as a believer in our US Constitution and the rule of law, that if these commissions/bonuses are payable by virture of the contract that was entered into, considering that whatever they did was lawful (you know the the conditions to forming a contract) ie. consideration? your listeners may enjoy you defining that for them... then by GOD they need to be paid. Hey, I don't like it anymore than you do, but liking it has ZERO to do with right or wrong.

    What could the consequence of them not paying their lawful obligations? Well it only takes three people/entities to toss AIG into an involuntary Chapter Filing? Why not... then obozo's public will get what they want. Why pay the light bill - you know the electricity that was consumed when all these bad deals (Credit Default Swaps) were entered into?

    These guys are morons, Neal.

    I've concluded there must be a new cabinet position - the Chief of Stupid - cause someone or departmetn sure are coming up with barrel of stupid stuff. More "Change" we can believe in - Neal. You give obozo a dollar and he'll give you change (BACK).

    Can we fire him? Recall petition? Impeach for cause (on cause he's an idiot?)

    1 final point. Neal - let get some econonmists on the show and play out what is going to happen with all this "free" money on the street in 2-3 years. Welcome back Jimmy (Hyper - INFLATION)

    Good Day, Sir
  • Bailouts
    By the same reasoning that the federal gov't bailed out AIG, so now they can control AIG policy, well China bailed out the U.S. Does this mean that China now has some amount of control over U.S. policy? Does china have the right to tell the federal gov't how much members of congress make? Can China tell us we are spending entirely too much on whatever and demand that money back? Answer -- Of course not.

    Just another example of do what i say not as i do.
  • A bit inconsistent Neal
    If the taxpayers hadn't had to throw money at AIG I couldn't care how much they pay for bonuses. You get very out of shape when you see some welfare recipient with a cell phone or a plasma TV (I do too!) so let's be consistent !
  • AIG bonuses
    Neal,

    I'm sorry that I haven't been able to listen to your show as much as I normally would, but we're getting used to a newborn in our house. I did want to weigh in on the AIG bonus issue.

    I must say, I agree with you. If contracts stipulate that compensation must be paid in that manner, then it must be paid. If someone in the Obama administration wants to make a serious change to this practice, instead of just grandstanding for the angry masses in order to further scratch their weak little itches, then this is the change to enact.

    If a company wrecks their performance to the point that they need to beg for a bailout from the people of the United States, then a set of procedures should be commenced. Now, it will be the choice of the company requesting the bailout to accept the conditions or not, but it would be the only way to get the money. If you want the bailout, the following conditions would be put in place;
    1. The company would immediately be granted bankruptcy protection and conditions. All contracts, by agreement, would become null and void. All contracts, from CEO to all union contracts would be trashed. If you want a ladder out of the gutter, then you're going to have to put down your pride and climb with both hands.
    2. The United States government would immediately own 51% of the company, but, realizing the almost total lack of business experience present among bureaucrats and elected leaders, the government would have no business oversight and would have no input on day-to-day business decisions.
    3. All of the bailout money would have to be repaid, plus a 20% premium, before any new contracts could be entered into by the company, either union or executive compensation.

    We have to make it a stigma to come to the people of the United States and beg for money. We cannot make it a loan between buddies with a wink and a nod and no mention of payback or interest. It has to be two things when you come begging, an admission that you have run your business in the ground, and, an attitude of contrition that you are asking for the money paid by the sweat and blood of your fellow citizens to keep you business afloat.
  • t-shirt
    Love that T! Where can i get one?
  • Unions and other workers
    Funny, AIG execs are contractually obligated to get these bonuses and you defend it but, when auotmakers asked for bailout money EVERYONE was asking union workers to essentially break their contract to lower their wages. How many employees who are contracted to get paid are getting told to work fewer hours to save money? MANY

    I understand these folks were supposed to get this money and that AIG needs to be able to run it's business that way it needs to in order to keep good people but - DAYUM - how about we recognize the sacrifice the taxpayer has made to save their ass and change the contract out of some godd**m respect?

    would it kill you to share some of that respect neil?
  • Sen Says AIG Execs Should Commit Suicide
    Oh my stars and garters. Charles Grassley is suggesting that execs at AIG should resign or commit suicide.

    I pray that the execs stand up and say, "sure, right after Chris Dodd and Barney Frank do the same."

    Aww, Neal, you are talking about this as I am posting it...way to burst my balloon.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090317/D96VPA601.html

    southernramblings.blogspot.com
  • Neal is correct
    The selective outrage over this manufactured issue is just stupid! I especially enjoy how members of Congress, who have never run a business, profess to tell giant multi-national corporations how they should be going about their business. Employee compensation is often the largest expense a company has. It is spectactular ignorance that Congress wouldn't understand that fact and that a large part of the bailout money would be used for compensation. And then we find out this morning that Mr. Business in the Senate, Chris Dodd put provisions in the bills to EXEMPT this exact use of the funds...Chris Dodd must resign or maybe he should commit Hare-cary like Grassley suggested. This is just stupid. Bailout should never have happened, would have been no bonus payouts, hence no outrage...this leads to the conclusion that the whole mess was created by Congress and President Bush/Paulson!
  • Sorry Neal, you're off of this one both morally and economically
    The "we need to pay to keep our top talent" argument is fallacy. If the "talent" at AIG gets fed up and decides to jump ship for greener pastures, just exactly where are they going to go for a better deal? BoA? Citibank? Bear-Stearns?

    We often laugh about this when we compare it to when the airlines were in trouble, and Delta used this argument to justify their bonuses as they were getting their bailout. Just where were those Delta execs going to go for better deals? One of the other bankrupt airlines?

    Sorry, but once you've been bought out by "the people", you pretty much are subject to the whims of "the mob". I don't feel sorry for them at all. We should have let them go bankrupt and let that process weed them out.
  • AIG and relation to Congress
    I think that if we are going to say the execs at AIG should resign or be fired, then we should tell Congress the same thing - as well as Pres Obama. They have cost us billions (trillions) and have been in power what 2 months - come on. At least the AIG people have not done that much damage! Obama - if you want people to take responsibility for their actions _THEN DO NOT TAKE MY MONEY AND MY KIDS MONEY TO BAIL OUT THOSE WHO WERE IRRESPONSIBLE HOME BUYERS _ THEY ACTED IRRESPONSIBLY, BUT YOU ARE REWARDING THEM- WHY CAN'T AIG EXECS BE REWARDED FOR NOT DOING WHAT WAS RIGHT???? Come on Mr Harvard grad - you are a little smarter than that right? Can't have it both ways -even though I know you want to.
  • Unpopular contracts
    "Are we going to adopt a standard where contracts are only enforceable if they're popular with political class and the public? If that contract is unpopular what are we going to do?"

    If the public says so, we'll write down the amount they owe on their mortgages.
  • I see your point but.....
    Most of what you are saying makes sense and I can agree with but doesn't all this just show how these bailout plans were just cobbled together in a rush because of some b.s. "crisis". The first bail out was led by a bunch of politicing,panicking congressmen who have not a clue how the financial market works. This is fine because ITS NOT THEIR JOB TO KNOW!If they had good business sense they would be successfull,wealthy businessman,not worthless politicans.So their first screw-up was sticking their nose in something they shouldn't have.Then the presidential canadates had to get involved and of course the doom and gloom MSM. The "too big to fail" mantra swept everyone into "we gotta do somthin'fast!!"mode and the typical congressional solution ,as always,THROW MONEY AT IT TILL IT GOES AWAY! Only government gives away money with no contracts or strings attached then expects unspecficied results and is shocked when they don't get what they never asked for. As always the "fast fix"usually doesn't fix the real problem.This is truely the stupid leading the ignorant.This current administration is even worse. By their own words they say this is the worse financial crisis of the century but they can't even fill our treasury dept. with ANYONE BUT ONE TAX CHEAT! WTF- DOES NOBODY WANT THE JOB OR WHAT??? AT LEAST GET SOMEONE WHO CAN EXPLAIN CONTRACT LAW TO THESE IDIOT POLITICIANS.Then maybe they could see why bankruptcy would have done away with ALL contractical obligations(such as BONUSES for failure).Wall street responds to confident moves by government even if they are wrong, not the spastic convulsions of a panicked,unpredictable,clueless politician. How much better off would we have been if these companies were let to fail, go bankrupt, then reorganize and go about rebuilding a company hopefully learning what went wrong and not repeating it. Instead we have companys that ARE repeating this because it worked so well the first time.The "crisis" could well have been over by now if not for government interference. GOV. SHOULD DO ONLY WHAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR WILL NOT,CAN NOT OR SHOULD NOT DO.PERIOD
  • AIG Bonuses
    This has more to do with public sentiment than it has to do with money. Throughout American history politicians have had to know how to work with public sentiment. How do you think Lincoln won the Civil War? It wasn't with superior military leadership. When so many stories have already been put out there about workers willing to take pay cuts in order to simply remain employed, it is obvious that public sentiment is going to be against these huge bonuses. When so many are wanting more money in social programs for poor people it is hard to get the masses to support federal money going into big bonuses for rich people. Like all before him, Obama has to constantly work on getting re-elected. To get re-elected you have to have public sentiment behind you. Obama has said he will pursue every legal avenue to stop these bonuses. That is good re-election strategy. Even though the bonuses will be paid it won't be his fault now and the voters won't hold it against him. Score one for the Committee to Re-elect Obama.
  • Forrest, Trees
    Of greater outrage to me than the thousands going to AIG people is the tens of billions the AIG bailout is giving to foreign governments. Over $50 billion is going to bail out foreign banks, including $36 billion in France and Germany alone.

    Why are we bailing out other countries' banks?
  • Where was everybody a couple of weeks ago ?
    Where was everybody when they passed the $ 487 billion dollar pork spending bill ?? They spent more money on swine testing then AIG is giving out in bonuses...
  • Oh Bull Patties!
    Imagine this interview.

    Employer: What did you do for the company over the last 10 years?

    Employee: You know that $165 billion we lost? Well I lost $20 billion of it.

    Employer: OH! You're one of the brightest financial minds in the company. We really must retain you. Here is a $10 million bonus. We stole the money from the taxpayers, so what the hell do we care?
  • That shirt is too funny!
  • And that is relevent how?
    "uh, jon. aig got bailout funds under tarp, a bush admin program"

    Thanks Mr. "Moocher" for that irrelevant tidbit. I stand corrected. You're right, it was the previous, merely incompetent looter, not the current shamelessly intentional looter who inflicted the first AIG bailout.

    I guess that changes everything, right?
  • You are overestimating their value
    Best and brightest minds, lol yeah that's a good one.

    I got news for you, the best and brightest are long gone because they recognize a sinking ship when they see one and have no shortage of suitors.

    Even still, every one of them could be financial geniuses and it wouldn't matter much because in a large corporation executives have very little actual power to change anything as there are too many checks and balances in place to prevent anything radical.

    Honestly AIG would be better served firing all of those executives and hiring a mix of MBA's just out of school and skilled middle managers with lots of real world experience but who have never been executives. They'd all take the jobs for a fraction of what the current executives expect and you'd be flush with new ideas both from the years of experience seeing what worked and what didn't and from the theoretical world of academia.
  • AIG
    Your reference this morning to the hot air balloon company stated the company made a profit and they received a bonus for doing a good job making sacrifices while waiting on the return for good work. This is a good example of why to allow the payment. Why pay employees (like at AIG) bonuses when the company had bad dealings and poor profits and taking tax payer money to keep afloat? You said it could be payments for other things but the company has stated it is a retention bonus. I am really tired of hearing about companies expecting the average mid level work to take a pay cut or not get a annual raise to help the company but then their executives who create the messes still take home large bonuses. I agreed with you on many things including how the wealthy create jobs but there is a point where it is just being greedy.
  • Ya see,
    this is what happens when the government sticks their nose where it doesn't belong.
    "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
  • Hypocracy
    When the government spends taxpayer (Stimulous waste)money it's such a small percentage it's not worthy of Congress' concern. Now that AIG is spending a portion of our money Congress is up in arms. More proof they think all wealth belongs to government.
  • Best bailout money spent so far
    I would say this is the most responsible spending of the bailout money yet. I think the best thing the government could have done with this $750 billion would be to give it back to us. Here AIG takes the money from the government and gives it to private citizens. Yay!
  • But who's monitoring the monitors?
    Without knowing the terms of the contract(s) under which these bonuses are being paid, we cannot know whether these bonuses are unjustified. Innocent until proven guilty.

    On the other hand, paying bonuses to "retain the best" is bogus at best. These are the minds that brought AIG to where it is. Sometimes, people who are not being paid what they're worth ought to be very happy about it.
  • Finally...a voice of reason
    I didn't get a chance to listen to your show yesterday, so I didn't realize that there was a voice of reason out there. I was watching Fox News and hearing Democrats and Republicans, alike, demonizing AIG. The WHOLE time I am thinking "What about the Contracts?"

    I am a first year law student and I am certainly learning all about enforcement of contracs. When an employee (or executive) signs a contract with an employer for a compensation package, sometimes that includes bonuses. If AIG doesn't pay the bonus, they are in violation of the contract. Many times, the normal salary is less than it might have been, specifically because of the bonus structure. So are we going to just forget about the rule of law and contract enforcement?

    I don't like taxpayer money going towards bailouts. I would rather let these companies fail and let the private sector pick up the pieces. However, there is no crime in abiding by employee compensation contracts.

    I just find it interesting how often I see the politicians and media inflate the ignorance of the general public.

    GOOD WORK NEAL! Keep it going! FINALLY, a voice of reason!
  • AIG bonuses
    It's funny, because usually when you get a buisiness loan from a bank, they work out any conditions before the loan is given. I certainly have never known any instance when a bank sent a representative to a buisiness to tell them they are paying someone too much. Just think if the bank came to your house (they own it, you bought it with money they lent you) and demanded that you paint it another color, or that you let one of their friends live in the back room. How is that any different? It's renegotiating the terms of the loan retroactivley without both party's consent. It really galls me that some congressmen who have never had a real job, owned their own buisiness, or paid an employee out of their own pocket, thinks that somehow they are an expert in buisiness. Moreso than a buisinessman who can go anywhere in the world and demand an exorbitant salary and get it. Those guys get the big bucks cause they're worth it. If AIG was a football team people would be cheering this stategy. When you have a losing season you try like h@ll to keep the good players you have and you spend all you can to get more talent cause that's the only way you're going to compete. If you void contracts and lose all your good players, then get new ones on the cheap you will never win.
  • You're not wrong Neal
    But you're not completely right either. Yes AIG will need to be able to hire the competent management required to fix the wrongs committed by a few within the organization.
    And the entitlement mentality of our elected representatives is a huge reason why I want to see term limits enacted. But that is another story.
    here is where I differ with your take on this Neal. The few times in my life where I actually worked for a company that paid bonuses to their employees, it was based on the overall finacial health of the company. If we did not achieve a sufficient level of profit, we did not share in the proceeds. So sorry and work harder next year. And that only makes sense to me. Paying a bonus to an employee who failed in the performance of their job is just wrong, non-sensical, and outrageous to me.
    Of course the reality of the situation is the CEO's hands were tied because of contractual obligations.
    But that still does not make it right.
  • bonus contracts
    Has anyone read these contracts and seen that they are set up to obligate AIG to pay them or are you are taking the word of the good folks at AIG that not only do they exist but that they also leave the company no choice but to make the payments?
  • AIG Bonuses
    I agree with Neal. I had an arguement with my wife on this last night. My stance was that this was very irresponsible reporting and done only to get a reaction from the ignorant public. The media should not have reported it until they had the whole story and President Obama looked very Un-Presidential jumping on board without knowing the facts as well. Why not just make a statement that I can not make a judgement on the paying of these bonuses until I have all the facts??? We have a terrible rank amateur in the White House and it is scaring the investing community and the job providers.
  • Outrage?
    So Obama is outraged is he??
    Well so am I. I'm outraged that he gave AIG money in the first place!! Why the hell wasn't this compnay allowed to fail?

    AIG doesn't "make" anything. They sell insurance. Their employees recieve bonuses as part of their pay. They are contractually obligated to pay these bonuses.

    How can anyone in their right mind be outraged over this and not be outraged over what our governmnet is doing?

    WAKE UP AMERICA!
  • wrong prez, jon baker
    jon sez "AIG was bankrupt before "Dear Leader" and his tax cheat stepped in with his bailout using MY MONEY."

    uh, jon. aig got bailout funds under tarp, a bush admin program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARP
  • No, you're not alone.
    Count me in the ranks of the 'I don't care how much AIG paid their executives.' I was switching between Fox and CNN this morning and couldn't believe how much time they were spending on this.

    Meanhile, there's a fanatical muslim over in Tehran who's about to get his hands on a nuclear bomb. There was more time devoted to AIG this morning than to a nuclear Iran in the last two months.

    How about this? Why not tell PrezBo, our tax cheat SecTreas, and the New York Times that AIG paid a huge bonus to Ahmedenejad (sp?). Maybe then they'd start worrying about what's going on over there.
  • I thought that a contract was a contract
    Neal you have a point. If there was something in the contract stating that a bonus would be paid if a challenge was met, then that was good, well, and fine.

    What I find a bit ominous is that if people start tolerating when government does this for companies that took bailout money, who is to say that these same people will not tolerate the government regulating the bonus pay of companies that didn't take the money. The leftists in government will use the same wealth envy rhetoric.

    As an aside, for all you wealth envy leftists out there, why don't you go learn a skill and earn the money yourself? Hmm? but I digress.

    With the government starting to regulate what companies can pay for bonuses, many companies will start to locate their headquarters to locations that don't have the taxation and regulation conditions of the US. Can you say "Halliburton" or "Stanley Works"?
  • Stay on target
    I agree with Haggar that our focus is being diverted from the real target. You were keeping us focused yesterday on the right spot. Thanks!
  • Contracts
    From what I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong) the contractually obligated bonuses were merit-based, and were to be paid upon a job well done. Had the company gone bankrupt, the contracts would have been deemed null and void.

    But what have we here? The gov't steps in and pukes a bunch of money into AIG to keep it alive. By doing that, they willingly kept the contracts valid by helping the company avoid bankruptcy.

    It's like giving a homeless guy some cash and getting mad when he buys booze with it.
  • AIG
    I opposed the AIG bailout. My second choice would be to pay claims only. The real question in my mind is what the employeres have gotten if there were no bailout and if the government covered claims only.
  • Amen, Brother Neal
    I am in complete agreement with you. While this bashing might be great political theater and good populist rhetoric, it is inherently dishonest and is scapegoating in an unproductive manner.

    It is base pandering to the base human emotions of wealth envy and seeking to pin blame on some hated group. That never has a good outcome.
  • Sen. Dodd - tax to recoup AIG bonuses
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/aig.bonuses/
  • When you're right, you're right
    Neal,

    You have this one nailed. So you are feeling a little isolated? Why do you think our country is in such a mess? Sadly, far too many of our voters have no clue about history, law and economics. Not only are they clueless, they are so screwed up it's a wonder they can find their polling place.

    Of course they do not agree with you. Your position is based in logic and cold hard truth. Especially the latter is a bit harsh for our electorate, and that weakness is destroying us. New Zealand you say?

    Bill
  • Watch the hypocrisy, Boortz
    "The issue should be to whom those bonuses were paid. If they were paid to the perps who put AIG into this mess - and that's supposing the mess was caused by AIG execs and not by the federal government essentially forcing AIG investors and subsidiaries into making and buying hideously bad mortgages - then we have a problem. If the bonuses were paid to people who are working hard to solve AIG's problems and achieving some success, then no problem."

    You say the above in one paragraph, and then rail against the Atny General of New York for doing the very same thing. From what I've heard, Cuomo is doing nothing but investigating whether or not the executives recieving the bonuses were instrumental in the meltdown of the company. If they weren't, he won't mess with them.

    I agree with your stance in general, Boortz, but don't slam the attourney general for doing exactly what you said should be done just because he is part of government.
  • AIG
    Neal, agree with you on this, but $165 million is not 1/10th of $165 billion, it's 1/1000th of $165 billion. From another angle, the bonuses amount to 0.14% of AIG's 2008 expenses.

    This is a small potatos issue that is being blown out of proportion because it is in the form of a bonus.
  • The contracts were already broken
    Quit trying to defend the indefencible, Neal. Study your Ayn Rand -- those people are all looters! What kind of "Bonus" gets paid even if you fail? How is that an incentive?

    Your argument about the size of it is beside the point. I don't care if it's only a nickle -- it's MY nickle. I want it back!

    AIG was bankrupt before "Dear Leader" and his tax cheat stepped in with his bailout using MY MONEY. That company was bankrupt and those contracts were no longer valid, anyway.

    Get off it, Neal. QUIT DEFENDING THE LOOTERS!
  • Stock
    AIG stock price up 65% yesterday and another 10% in pre-market trading today. Someone likes what AIG is doing!
  • AIG bonus payment
    Those of us who agreed with you just didn't get rabid about it, but we're here.
  • OMG LOLz
    I find it very strange that the president is whining about 160M in CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED BONUSES (to individual people)(contracts are contracts, if you ignore the rule of law, what is the Constitution worth?) While TOTALLY IGNORING, the XXXB (yes with a B) pork barrel projects he signed his name to.

    Move along, nothing to see here...
    Ignore the man behind the curtain....

    What can I say, He is directing our focus toward HIS target, not the REAL target.
  • Don't Feel Alone
    Don't worry, you are not the only one who thinks this is wrong. Despite not getting any calls of support, there are plenty of people who wonder just how the government thinks it's going to step in and decide if honoring a contract is legal or not.

    What is Obama going to do next? I have a traffic light that is out in my neighborhood, maybe he could pop in and fix that too.

    southernramblings.blogspot.com
  • bonuses = donations to politicians
    I was just wondering if these politicians are going to take any donations in the next cycle from companies that received bailout money. They are so worried about the bonuses (which I am extremely sympathetic to) but it seems that any donations from these companies would also be using the money for other then intended purposes.


    Bonus: Would it even be legal for these companies to donate to a political cause? The federal government is the majority owner so any donation would be = to the federal government funding a party/candidate.
  • AIG Bonuses
    I agree with you on this neal. Isn't it true that AIG has a government person overseeing AIG now? And isn't it also true that this person approved the bonuses because AIG was contractually obligated to do so? And finally, isn't it true that if AIG had been allowed to go bankrupt that all contracts would have been voided and these bonus payments would not have taken place?
  • aig bailout
    I'm with you Neal. It's none of the governments business what AIG is doing with the money! The government took it from us and gave it to them with little to no strings attached! The government is at fault in this mess. I'd love to see AIG's CFO come out and tell them that! Likewise, I do hope they are rewarding the folks that are earning the company money.
  • No, Neal I don't think you are out of your mind.
    I find it very strange that the president is whining about 160M in CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED BONUSES (to individual people) While TOTALLY IGNORING, the XXXB (yes with a B) pork barrel projects he signed his name to.

    Move along, nothing to see here...
    Ignore the man behind the curtain....

    What can I say, He is directing our focus toward HIS target, not the REAL target.
  • At least these bonus checks aren't called welfare...
    Neal,
    For someone who really is against redistribution of wealth, I'm surprised you like this bonus idea. So you're saying, we should let the 'best minds' at AIG, who ran the company into the ground, necessitating a massive taxpayer bail-out should receive merit awards for a job well done. Well, where I come from, getting paid to not do your job is called welfare. If you are contractually obligated to pay someone a bonus after the pitiful job they have done, then it isn't a BONUS, it is just another paycheck. Bonuses are paid to someone who exceeds expectations. We're only now learning, with these comanies that are 'too big to fail,' that when America's financial system are controlled by a handful of powerhouses, that no matter how bad their business model is, as long as those at the heads of those companies are making money, to hell with the rest of the country. With this newly learned knowledge, I suggest it would be wise to have AIG broken up into smaller companies, so that if a unit fails, then fine, the market has spoken. We own 80% of this fraudulent business now, we should be able to pull that off. As for not being able to legally get around the bonus issue, fine. Tell them to either forfeit the bonus, or their job. If they are passionate about what they do and want to make a difference for everyone, they'll stick around. If they leave, they were only there for the money (not the longevity of the company) and will probably be perfectly comfortable with an early retirement.
  • Government breaking contracts
    If Barney Frank et. al. can break "irresponsible" payments/contracts for TARP recipients like AIG -> What about General Motors ? How about breaking some of the UAW contracts that drive "irresponsible" wages and benefits ? Why won't the Dems stop that ??
  • Smokescreen
    Lot of attention being paid to 165 million (with an M) in legit compensation while 90+ billion (with a B) goes overseas or to Goldman Sachs. Interesting timing, no?
  • AIG Bonuses
    Neal, what do you expect? People are absolute idiots to start with, let alone when confronted with topics like economics, contract law, executive management, and so on. Let them wallow in their "American Idol"-induced stupor and save your breath. The twenty or so of us who understand your point will be busy moving our minds and money elsewhere.
  • contract law anyone?
    I find it scary that the most obvious fact about the bonuses is being totally ignored: bonuses were part of a contract.

    If we are going to say that bonuses are not to be paid, regardless of the contract, do we realize the impact on contract law?

    Contacts would no longer matter folks. That home you got your mortgage with, that says you will own it when your done paying the mortgage, done. Someone else can have your home. And you have no recourse.

    Think about it.

    Pay those bonuses as matter of upholding the principles of contract law or there will be long lasting consequences folks....
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