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Today's Nuze

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Nobody's listening.

HOW TO NOT MAKE MONEY

By
Neal Boortz
@ March 3, 2009 8:38 AM Permalink | Comments (82) | TrackBacks (0)

I've been telling you that Barack Obama's plans to tax the evil, filthy ugly rich is going to lead to an economic shutdown. At some point, the achievers are going to give up. They are going to get sick and tired of working hard to achieve and succeed and see their earned wealth be taken away by the point of a gun and given to someone to buy tire shine for the wheels on their house.

Right now, Obama's tax plan makes it pretty clear what is defined as "rich." An individual making $200,000 or a family making $250,000.

Even in the mainstream media, we are starting to hear about the achievers who are looking for ways to decrease their salaries in order to fall under Barack Obama's tax marks. What does this mean? People actually want to make less money, thanks to Barack Obama's tax plans. That means that they employ less people or see less clients. In other words, it leads to a less productive society. A society that is more dependent on the government. There is some point at which people will say "Look, I have enough. I'll continue to work hard, but not for reduced rewards. Time to cut back and take it easy while this country enjoys their new president."

Take a look at this article from ABC News: Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan. This is real, folks. This isn't me typing out a summary of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged." Read the article and tell me how Obama's tax plans are going to be a benefit to our society.

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What others are saying

  • marginal tax rates
    Well, a lot of people here have a lot of good ideas about marginal tax rates. I guess none of them ever got dividends. Not only does that $250,000th dollar push your rate up on what you work for, but your next dividend check rate went up 5% too. MY accountant advised me to take those 3rd and 4th quarter dividends into account when I decided when to take the rest of the year off... guess what... March 9th BABY! :) (Yes, I'm still getting dividends)

    THINK!
    its free
    By Vrooden @ 03/10/09 01:37:30 AMreport abuse
  • How Taxes work
    Neal, how do you not know how taxes work. Progressive tax systems only tax excess income at higher rates, i.e. only every dollar after 200k (in the case of the individual) would be taxed at the higher rate, and some portion would be taxed at the lowest rate and every one in between. no one ever takes home less if they make enough to push them past income bracket thresholds. How can someone so interested in taxes and the irs not know how they work?
    By thinking person @ 03/09/09 11:02:03 AMreport abuse
  • Negotiations
    In negotiation we learned how to structure deals that increased the pie instead of grabbing the biggest slice of a limited pie. Too bad the masses in the US don't understand that 20% of 250 is worth a lot more than 40% of 100. Ask the average Joe on the street which he'd want and he'll take 40% any day. It's not about your absolute amount, it's all about the relative "fairness".

    When I was a sales manager I tested our reps. Cap their commissions on sales, or let them earn a higher commission rate when their sales went over a certain target. Guess which months had higher revenues (and higher profits despite lower profit margins)? People will kick butt to get more of the action, but tell them "this is all you can get because more isn't fair" and it's amazing to see how close they get to the cut-off month after month after month.

    Too bad the masses just can't comprehend the difference between incentive and disincentive.
    By Anne @ 03/04/09 04:30:34 PMreport abuse
  • We're screwed anyways
    Don't worry about the tax rate. It won't matter for long. Anyone who watched the Glen Beck report on how much fresh off the press cash this administration is dumping into the economy no one will be able to afford necessities such as toilet paper. It will be cheaper to use the dollar bills. At least the dollar will always be good for something.
    By Ben Dover @ 03/04/09 07:42:45 AMreport abuse
  • dumb
    Wow, how do all you guys make so much money if you don't even understand how the us tax system works? Duh, you only pay more on the amount over 250k.
    By chie @ 03/04/09 07:30:21 AMreport abuse
  • The Men of the Minds
    Ahhh, I strongly urge everyone in this audience who has trashed Boortz over his ideals to read Atlas Shrugged. I am certain you won't, as it is over 10 pages and Lord knows most people haven't read a book in years. If it isn't on tv, then it must not be worth it, right?
    The Men (and women) of the Minds in this country are going to go on strike. The producers, visionaries and hard workers are going to stop the motor of the world, just as John Galt did.
    Mr Boortz- will you please be our John Galt? Begin the secret meetings with these men and women, take them all away where they are safe, this administration is going to destroy them.
    Thank you.....
    By Sarah @ 03/03/09 07:30:21 PMreport abuse
  • Copyleft
    Copyleft, just bag it and go home.

    1. Corporations shouldn't pay any taxes, because they'll just pass it on to consumers, and

    2. Rich people shouldn't have to pay taxes (remember Leona Helmsley?) because they're "achiever" who provide jobs for us common scum.

    No one on this site, nor boortz, supports either. Though, those of us with a business education and backgroud do know that corporations pass on increased taxes to the consumer in the form of a (wanna guess?) price increase.
    Also, no one has said the rich shouldn't pay any tax. We just don't believe in the redistribution of wealth in the form of more taxes on the "rich".
    Also - income is a very differnt thing than wealth. You could have $1billion in the bank, and only earn $16,500/yr working full time at Micky Ds. Very different tax rates, wouldn't you say?
    Copyleft, go home, you do not have the logical capacity to play with us.

    Sheesh.
    By MS @ 03/03/09 06:53:46 PMreport abuse
  • my family
    as for my home, we have calculated the minimum dollar amount required to run our home. We plan to work enough to meet that amount and earn no more. why bother?
    By jill @ 03/03/09 06:31:51 PMreport abuse
  • I'm back
    I'm concerned that a lot of you still seem to think that self-limiting your income will save you money. No, no, and no.
    I appreciate your spirit (and anger) and let me say that I'm on that self limiting bandwagon myself - but not to save money. I do it to yank some money right back out of Uncle BOBO's gaping mouth.
    In reality, any self limiting of your income is going to yield to you less money than even what the Supremest Emperor Ever will leave behind in the shredded remnants of your paycheck. Seriously, he'll take 39 (or is it 36 or 33) cents of every dollar you make over $250k - you'll still have the remainder of the kill. What we're all pissed off about is the methods and madness of this naive and dangerous socialist in general.
    I'm in this for the protest value - it's personal and spitefully rewarding and makes me feel better about this whole mess.
    Don't do this unless you really can afford to deprive yourself of a few extra dollars that come your way. And if you can, let's have some fun and throw the biggest Boston Tea Party ever.
    Imagine if several hundred thousand people took even a few hundred dollars each away from the Most Coolest Godlike President Ever - could add up to a noticeable number if there was some way we could quantify the fruits of our "labor".
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 05:51:29 PMreport abuse
  • Copyleft - Honest question for you
    Do you HONESTLY beleive that corportations do not pass taxes on to Consumers? YES OR NO

    If No, I strongly recomend that you go back to school and do some studing. Buisness do not pay taxes, they are a operational expense and is passed on to the consumer in the price of the good or service.

    Now if you can point me to some documentation that supports your standing that corporations do not pass taxes on to the consumer, I would love to read it!!!!!!
    By John @ 03/03/09 04:07:33 PMreport abuse
  • The point is not the Marginal tax rate
    AWK --- The point here is not that we have a Marginal tax rate and that it is only going up 2% on people making $250K.

    Why should one group of Americans be forced to pay more then everyone else? Why is it FAIR to say take more from the guy who went to school and worked hard to start his own buisness - Then it is for the guy who works at Walmart? I do not want to hear - that they can AFFORD IT.

    What makes it RIGHT or FAIR to take more from one? If we are trully want to become the USSA - Everyone needs to pay their FAIR SHARE!
    By John @ 03/03/09 04:00:53 PMreport abuse
  • Will last one here turn out the lights? Wire story that's a little sobering
    Let's make us a less competitive Obama!
    WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama's Treasury secretary says the administration will unveil a series of rules and measures in the coming months to limit the ability of international companies to avoid U.S. taxes.
    Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told the House Ways and Means Committee on Tuesday that Obama will propose legislation to limit U.S. companies' ability to shelter foreign earnings from taxation in the U.S. He also said the administration will try to limit wealthy Americans' ability to use tax havens to avoid taxation.

    He did not immediately provide details.
    By Michael @ 03/03/09 03:35:00 PMreport abuse
  • Not making Money
    Of course, the left will argue then that with some people doing less (like the attorney in the article), that creates opportunity for others to pick up the slack and clients. So, we have a society of marginally productive people. Now, what do people with too much time on their hands always do? get into trouble in some form or fashion--foolishness.
    By fhsIV @ 03/03/09 02:51:19 PMreport abuse
  • 250K
    The most obvious way to get under 250K is to cut back one or more of your money-making employees.
    By DOL @ 03/03/09 02:10:39 PMreport abuse
  • Time to go.
    $
    By Gold Leader @ 03/03/09 01:37:43 PMreport abuse
  • My Bad
    I reread the explanation of marginal rates. Obviously, this is not yet a problem for me. Still, I'd take the week off to avoid the $330.
    By Lee @ 03/03/09 01:29:14 PMreport abuse
  • Taxes
    Look folks we all know that sooner or later the direct from you paycheck tax increases will be creeping down to the middle class. We start with $250K and then begin to decrease this to the $200K, then the $150K, and then $100K....just like Ol' Joe Biden said during the campaign.
    By Jake @ 03/03/09 01:20:57 PMreport abuse
  • Marginal Tax Rates
    If I'm not mistaken, 28% of $249,999 = $69,999.72, and 33% of $250,000 = $82,500.00. $82,500.00 - $69,999.72 = 12,500.28. If those calculations are correct, that extra dollar of income just incurred $12,500.28 in taxes. I think I could afford to take a couple of extra weeks off to avoid earning that extra dollar and incurring another $12,500 in taxes.

    However, I fear that we will soon see that threshold come far lower. I've paid off my house, my cars, and my credit cards. I'm prepared to get a minimum-wage part-time job to get a W-2 and otherwise work under the table for cash. If that makes me a tax cheat, so be it.
    By Lee @ 03/03/09 01:19:05 PMreport abuse
  • Capital Gains tax increase
    One point in the article that confuses me: Obama expects to see an increase in taxes of $118 billion due to an increase in Capital Gains tax. The way the stock market it operating right now, I don't think anyone is seeing capital gains, but they are experiencing capital Losses. No matter how much Capital Gains tax is increased, the government won't see a dime if the market stays low and no one earns any money by selling stock. It's going to take a lot of time for stock prices to get back to what people paid for them, if ever. So how does the Obama administration come up with the $118 billion figure?
    By Jamie @ 03/03/09 01:14:33 PMreport abuse
  • This is funny stuff!
    "I chose wrong and I know it?" LOL! I've been pretty darn impressed with everything President Obama's done so far... ESPCIALLY with how it's ticked off the irrelevant loons on the far right. That's American ideals at work, and the sore losers just keep on whining. Great entertainment!

    I knew it wouldn't take long for the Unfair Tax cultists to speak up--this IS Boortz's site, after all, and he's been pushing that scam longer than most.

    If talk-radio listeners were capable of rational thought, they'd take a moment and listen to their own arguments, which have consisted of:

    1. Corporations shouldn't pay any taxes, because they'll just pass it on to consumers, and

    2. Rich people shouldn't have to pay taxes (remember Leona Helmsley?) because they're "achiever" who provide jobs for us common scum.

    Now, let's see... the poor CAN'T pay any taxes, because they don't have any money. So who does that leave?

    You're arguing yourselves into poverty, and you don't even see it! Oh, this is rich. The biggest accomplishment of the right-wing media machine has been convincing the working class to agitate in favor of the rich--and AGAINST their own interests!

    Nicely done, Mr. Boortz. Your millions are safe, as long as you have an army of duped listeners at your beck and call to defend them. Too bad the far right LOST the last few elections and are in danger of slipping out of power....
    By Copyleft @ 03/03/09 01:11:06 PMreport abuse
  • The economy
    The fact of the matter is that its the high income earners that drive this economy. They do the hiring. they're the ones who create the jobs. Not the Obama constituency - the people at the bottom 40% who don't pay any income taxes anyway. Everytime the man opens his mouth the Dow drops 200 points. I think the new is wearing off this guy faster than a fake Rolex.
    By John from Dallas @ 03/03/09 01:07:09 PMreport abuse
  • Bunker Dweller
    Right on, Sistah! Hubby and I are very self-reliant. In fact, in our small community, I'll be talking to a lot of business people including docs about creating our own economy. The "Gimme" class can go to aitch E double hockeysticks.
    By Goin' to the Gulch @ 03/03/09 12:40:21 PMreport abuse
  • SHRUGGING SAYS
    "It isn't fair for people who are both more talented AND willing to work harder to take all the work for themselves"........AND....."The next step is to outlaw second jobs. In an economy where not everyone can find even a first job, it is appalling that some might be selfish enough to take two!"

    YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT?

    Do you want some CHEESE with your WHINE?
    By JoeShmoe @ 03/03/09 12:38:38 PMreport abuse
  • Copyleft ...again
    Come Copyleft, read. The people in the article are not talking about cheating on their taxes (like your team loves to do). These folks are talking about reducing their net income (that means the total they make before tax deductions) so they fall under $250K. As the great Obama has said, if you earn under $250K, your taxes will not increase ONE DIME. So, these earners are not cheating the system, they are working with it.

    Sheesh - the copyleft's logic needs some work. and his/her reading comprehension.
    By MS @ 03/03/09 12:22:31 PMreport abuse
  • SHUT UP BRACK OBAMA!!!!
    Brack needs to listen to the experts when it comes to the economic heath of this country. I notice that everytime that Brack opens his chicken eater the dow takes a plunge.
    By Latisha @ 03/03/09 12:17:00 PMreport abuse
  • Marginal tax rates
    Yes AWK - I know exactly what marginal tax rates are. If I make $251,000, I pay $330 in income tax on that $1000 over the threshold. Maybe a lot people do not understand the stepped structure of the tax rates, but I think almost everyone posting here does know. I agree that a couple of people do not understand it from what I've read today
    For many of us we are talking about a form of protest here. It can add up to a substantial loss of tax dollars to Uncle if a whole lot of people deliberately "dumb down" their income by just a couple thousand dollars - call it a tea party of sorts.
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 12:15:16 PMreport abuse
  • Copy, thats funny
    You open your mouth and get your brains bet in (verbally). You choose wrong and you know it, yet you continue to push a bad point.


    It just keep getting funnier!
    By D.D. @ 03/03/09 12:14:55 PMreport abuse
  • 2% Illusion
    The Truth is mostly right on the WSJ article, but he left out the most important part, the Feds would have to conficate 100% of income of those making $75,000 & up. A far cry from only over 250K.

    As to Copy left & his cohorts, they need ot look at the 50's tax forms when they blather on about the 90% tax rates. That rate kicked in over 25K, and had a bounty of deductions that have been engineered out of the tax code by dunny's who wanted the "rich to pay their fare share" . The 90% rate was far from it.
    By Bob @ 03/03/09 12:10:17 PMreport abuse
  • back to damifino
    Well, OK. I agree with what you say as far as Uncle BoBo stepping in and taking, then giving, my money to charities of His choice (the private ones having been killed off long ago). He does it now and calls it various forms of "assistance" (food stamps, welfare, eventual tax cuts to non taxpayers - funny one that one). I suppose that can be expanded to levels beyond my comprehension.
    The failure of private charities would be tragic at best, not to mention catastrophic to advances being made in various fields of research.
    To clarify my earlier post, I would never abandon private charities as long as they exist, but would have to trim my donations quite a bit. Going from $11K to a couple hundred per annum is really "gone" for all intents and purposes, you know? Who knows, after reading what you had to say, I might bump that up a couple thou just to do what little I can to help keep them alive.
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 12:07:13 PMreport abuse
  • Where is the Island?
    Where is John Galt?
    By Atlas @ 03/03/09 12:06:05 PMreport abuse
  • Time for Atlas to take a knee.....
    Enough already! The stock market is in free-fall. Achievers are losing everything. Obama's well-intentioned plan IS failing. His next book: "How to Kill a Vibrant Economy in 100 Days".
    To me, everyday of record high doom and gloom is GOOD news. It is only a matter of short time before we reach critical mass demanding change.
    My only wish is that we speed-up the process. I want Atlas to take a knee, not shrug.
    For those who want a flat tax, it won't work. They'll still bracket it and the achievers will pay a disproportionate amount and achieve (hire)less to avoid it. The Fair Tax is the only real fair tax.
    CopyLeft and Hugo, your jokes (comments) are so transparent. People like ya'll are not real. Why would you live in America while utopias like Cuba are just off our shore? Tell Elian we said "Hello".
    By Patriot til' Death @ 03/03/09 12:02:25 PMreport abuse
  • Do y'all understand MARGINAL tax rates?
    You all need to understand the difference between tax rates and MARGINAL tax rates. The slightly higher tax rate of 36% (up from 33%) on incomes over $250,000 applies to only the money you earn *beyond* $250,000. You would pay 28% on the $249,999th dollar you earn, and 33% on the $250,001st dollar you earn. So, it makes absolutely no sense to say you are going to purposely reduce your income to stay under this threshhold. Judging from the context of many of these comments, I think some people mistakenly think that once you cross $250,000, you're paying the higher tax rate on all your earnings going back to the first dollar you earned that year (which, if true, would in fact cause you to try to stay below the threshhold).
    By AWK829 @ 03/03/09 11:49:45 AMreport abuse
  • Rich folks need to go on hiatus!!
    I find myself praying that all the high achievers will just go on strike for a year or so. Just close up shop, fire all of their employees and sit out this administration. So that when the money dries up, this nation can learn to APPRECIATE how much these "greedy bastards" actually do for America.

    I'm a resourceful country gal and I can live w/o money. I have plenty of guns,bullets, horses for transportation,and my family can grow and kill our own food. So no matter the outcome my family is much better equipped to weather a true economic meltdown than the pansie liberals.

    I say it's time for a new strategy..STARVE the parasites out so we can take our country back.
    By Bunker Dweller @ 03/03/09 11:47:53 AMreport abuse
  • ABC's survey
    Did you notice the survey that ABC attached? Talk about horrible answer choices.


    Is it fair for people to reduce high salaries to sidestep President Obama's tax proposal?

    Yes. I also would find ways to decrease my salary to avoid taxes.
    4,694
    Yes. Why should ordinary folks, even those making $250K, pay when big corporations get bailed out.1,828
    No. The rich have had too many tax breaks. They should be ashamed for finagling the system.464
    No. I have to pay high taxes and so should that high-income bracket. They can afford it.
    By josh @ 03/03/09 11:47:23 AMreport abuse
  • Dear Copyleft...
    It seems to me you're taking the Karl Marx playbook approach to economics. Take from those who provide the jobs and investment (i.e., the capitalists) and give to those who subsist on government handouts (i.e., socialist losers). From each according to his ability to each according to his need.

    Well it's my RIGHT to choose NOT to work and my wife and I decided that we've had ENOUGH of this (my wife just quit her job and I've scaled back my company's operations to 3 days per week). In your book, that makes us "Tax Cheats". Well, I suppose you'd prefer that we have gulags and forced labor. Apparently, I no longer have the right NOT to work. I suppose that's reserved for losers like you.

    FYI most tax cheats seem to have been nominated for Obama's cabinet--Geithner, Solis, Kirk, Killefer, Daschle, Richardson--this is a JOKE.

    So Copy, in closing, I'm just not going to work very hard until we get a new president and congress.

    Until then, keep spewing garbage and misinformation and keep trying to cover up for all the real tax cheats in the Obama administration.
    By $mooth Operator @ 03/03/09 11:40:41 AMreport abuse
  • hey shutting down.....
    Your not understanding one of the underlying purpose in the lefts attack on charitys and donations. If you stop your charitable donations then private charities will die off. Private charities always did a better job than gov. did but the main difference is private charities can turn down a request for help if they don't think the request is worthy or can attach strings, such as a change in morale behavior from the requestee. Also a charity can close down if the it does not have the publics approval or support it for some reason. A gov. entitlement program can never die no matter how badly abused, expensive, offensive or corrupt it becomes. Once in place the public has no input other than footing the bill. Gov. idiots and PAC groups will decide where your "charitable contributions" will be spent. Its just another shot for. gov. dependency.
    By damifino @ 03/03/09 11:40:11 AMreport abuse
  • Job Offer
    Well, Shrugging, if you have an Electrical Engineering degree I guess you could have my job one of these days.
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 11:37:57 AMreport abuse
  • 2% Illusion
    I forgot to add that since taxing the evil top 2% at a 100% rate wouldn't come close to cover the ridiculous spending, then one of two things will happen regarding Hussein Soetoro's promise of cutting the deficit:

    (1) Since squeezing every penny from the top 2% won't be enough, BOzo will have to redefine "rich". The $250K scale will move lower and lower until a garbage man is considered a Bill Gates. He will say, "Let me be clear...umumum..ah...I had no intention of raising taxes on people below $250K. However, these times are like no other, we are facing a crisis a catastrophe, etc.. we need to all sacrifice..."

    or

    (2) He is lying about cutting the deficit as he lies
    By The Truth @ 03/03/09 11:35:35 AMreport abuse
  • more shuttin down
    Wow - I'm posting like a madman today - nothing like hitting a nerve with a particular pet topic.

    Well said Jimmy D - I've said basically the same thing in previous posts - they'll get us eventually because all we have are these "feel good" tactics that the Elevated One will learn to circumvent - by lowering the thresholds as you accurately pointed out. We can only adjust our incomes so much before it becomes foolish and folly, and as it is now only works for those of us who are borderline $250-kers, either slightly above or below that line.

    It's going to take a lot more to save this country than a bunch of us posting and commiserating in these forums - just don't know what yet besides election time decisions.
    I personally am trying to do my little bit whenever practical, like voting for a Dem candidate for Senator in the last election who had lots of shining ideas, among which was support of at least a flat tax, if not the Fair Tax itself, but nonetheless some ambition to scrap the current system. But alas, our illustrious Lindsey Graham took home the ribbon. I was totally willing to give the Dem guy with good realistic (and better) ideas a break. What else can I do?

    P.S.(Mr. Graham gets a LOT of polite but critical emails from me).
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 11:35:11 AMreport abuse
  • The 2% Illusion
    For the Dummycrats out here who say that we need to tax the top 2%, you need to read an article from WSJ last week that explains how even if you taxed them at 100% (i.e. take every single penny they have), there still wouldn't be enough money to cover half of what this commie social worker has proposed.
    By The Truth @ 03/03/09 11:28:22 AMreport abuse
  • Copyleft - Liberal Mental Disease on Display
    (1) This crap-for-brains thinks that lowering your income is cheating! He equates that to the true tax cheats of Prez BOzo's cabinet!

    (2) Then, in case you didn't already realize how stupide this libtard is, he says that they need to close these loopholes!! So, if someone is making $500K, and decides that because of higher taxes he will take time off or take a low paying job, according to CopyLeft he is exploiting loopholes!!

    Question, you bedwetting ignoramus, what do you propose to do to that guy? Put a gun to his head and force him to go to work for a higher salary?

    Good God, man. Do you even read and think about what you write?
    By The Truth @ 03/03/09 11:25:39 AMreport abuse
  • I agree...`
    There were times when I worked at another job where after a certain amount of hours it just was not worth it after the taxes. I believe that people will definitely get more creative about what defines income and if they are near a threshold then make adjustments. Especially if you own your own company you can take other incentives besides straight income. You can not force anyone to line up to be robbed!
    By Steve @ 03/03/09 11:19:12 AMreport abuse
  • Rich choosing to make less
    Doctors may also choose to see fewer patients. (what will this do to access). I already advise prospective students to avoid a career in medicine. I wish I had the same advice as a youth. So much for a noble profession.

    Anesthesia Doc
    By Gasman @ 03/03/09 11:18:24 AMreport abuse
  • but don't you see, this makes things more fair
    I think everyone here is missing the point. It isn't fair for people who are both more talented AND willing to work harder to take all the work for themselves. I for one look forward to being able to pick up the work that these "high achievers" no longer want.

    The next step is to outlaw second jobs. In an economy where not everyone can find even a first job, it is appalling that some might be selfish enough to take two!
    By Shrugging @ 03/03/09 11:09:17 AMreport abuse
  • copyleft-close loopholes? hell scrap the code!
    Your suggestion for closing tax loopholes would be laughable if not so sadly impossible. The loopholes were put there by the same partys that are using them. Also the act of making less money so you can pay less taxes is not a loophole or a cheat. Its a sacrifice. You are still paying the same percentage of tax on your income as you always did but you are earning less. The cheaters are the idiots in congress who made the tax codes so complex no one can fully understand them so they can get away with robbing us blind. If your so upset with tax cheats and loopholes then you should be all behind Boortz's FAIR TAX proposal. It may not be perfect but whats out there now is such a charlie-foxtrot that no one can understand it. Even the IRS can't answer questions about it correctly on their own help-line. Wadda ya say copyleft, get off your self rightous liberal hi horse and push your fellow leftist to support a completely new and fair tax code that even a gov. schooled american can understand.
    By damifino @ 03/03/09 11:01:07 AMreport abuse
  • Spiraling Threshold
    I'm not so sure a lot of folks would reduce their income, but I've been wrong before. For the sake of making a point, let's say that there is a significant portion of the population that are near the $250K mark for married, $200K for single.. If a great many of these folks reduce incomes to get below the "rich" threshold, I think the government would figure out what’s happening. The government would have to “adjust,” i.e. create a new, yet lower "rich" threshold in order to collect more taxes. No matter what, these evildoers in the Obama administration are going to fiddle around with taxes and tax collecting scenarios ad infinitum in order to maximize the redistribution of wealth. It's kind of like playing a game, “government vs. taxpayers. The rules continually change to put the taxpayers in an unfavorable position while the government ALWAYS wins. In the end, the desire to get ahead and be successful will be thwarted, and this whole entity called the U.S. A. will go into a death spiral.
    By Jimmy D @ 03/03/09 10:50:31 AMreport abuse
  • Copyleft's "TAX CHEATS"
    Let me get this straight, The achievers are Cheating the system if they don't work themselves into an early grave.

    But Social-fascist Dhimicraps like Copyleft can Loot off the system all they want.

    I guess that's what passes for logic and intelligent thought in the Leftard world
    By AR @ 03/03/09 10:39:08 AMreport abuse
  • Atlases Shrugging
    Ayn Rand's whole point in Atlas Shrugged was that Socialism can only succeed if the Achievers in society sacrifice themselves to the collective.

    The achiever's and producers have to produce the wealth BEFORE the Socialists can seize it to buy the votes of the dumb masses.

    The achievers have to take action NOW before it's too late, before the Social-fascist Dhimicraps eviscerate the Constitution

    They can throw you in jail for not filing or paying your taxes, but (at least for now)they can't for Not Working and fueling the headlong rush into the brick wall of Socialism.

    Strike on Tax Day, April 15, 2009
    By Tl @ 03/03/09 10:32:22 AMreport abuse
  • Robin's Wealth Envy
    Huh???
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 10:27:57 AMreport abuse
  • I achieve - why punish me?
    I am retired military and I served for 23 years. I receive a dismal retirement check for the sub-standard military housing my family endured and the sacrifices I made for my country. I have gone back to war as a contractor doing the same job that I did before I retired and I receive great pay and much better benefits. My wife has a job where she makes 60K a year. Total income for us will be well over $250K again this year.

    I allowed myself to be bent over for 23 years but I will not tolerate it anymore. I am consulting my tax lawyer to see when I need to quit work this year to avoid being "rich".
    By Tony @ 03/03/09 10:24:32 AMreport abuse
  • no you wait a minute, Copy
    Tax cheat because I LIMIT my income???
    WTF!?
    Plus, that's even less money to me than what the Supreme Socialist Czar of the USSA would leave me with, but man does it make me feel better about having to live under this FUBAR administration's ideas. (Oh, and smack my mouth, but yes - I really can do without it - it's called HAVING NO DEBT!)
    How about giving to charities, Copy, is that tax cheating too? You know I deduct every penny of it off my gross income - for now anyway. The one thing I like about the Holiest of Holy Emperor's idea of eventually stripping this deduction is how he is going to alienate the HELL out of all the noble charities in this country (maybe in the world), because they will suffer when this happens (not me) and they will finally recognize the enemy of this nation. It'll be a start to getting this realization out to the rest of the Glorious Kingdom's subjects. I do not hand out a $25 annual treat bag to these organizations - last year it was $11,500 and the year before was about $9000. It's gone, buddy, all of it, when His Highness moves on this latest stroke of economic genius.

    Now maybe I'm wrong, but a Tax Cheat avoids paying taxes on earned income - like so many of the Imperial Socialist's appointees have turned out to be, hmmm?

    Good Lord man!
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 10:18:51 AMreport abuse
  • yeah, what a great thing (NOT)
    My husband and I are both in our mid- to late-20s and could very easliy fall in this pay bracket in our lifetimes. But the thought of paying out $72,000/yr for a $200,000 income is absolutely ridiculous. I guess that means we will only ever strive for $249,999 combined income and not a penny more. Yeah, that's the American dream and what a Master's degree (or more) should force us to max out on...Thanks Barry!
    By Colleen @ 03/03/09 10:08:53 AMreport abuse
  • Hyperbole
    Look, I oppose the tax hikes, but can we get some perspective here? Allowing the Bush tax hikes to expire will return us to those awful tax levels of the 90's. Even if Obama is serious above reducing deductions and stuff (yeah, Barack, wait until the non-profits hear about that), the tax environment will still be far better than it was at any time between about 1930 and 1980.

    Right now the government is taking 16% of our GDP in taxes and spending 23%. That's not sustainable. Obama's tax hikes will raise taxes to 19% of our GDP. That's close to the historical average over the last 50 years, although more heavily "progressive" than before.

    But I'm sorry. You were freaking out and screaming "socalism!" Don't mind me. Let's not focus the ridiculously optimistic assumptions in Obama's budget or the complete lack of spending restraint. Let's just shout socialism until the Democrats have 4/5 majorities in both houses.
    By MikeS @ 03/03/09 10:05:58 AMreport abuse
  • not sure this is new...
    CPA's stay in business finding ways for people to avoid paying taxes. Nothing new except the number.
    By Todd @ 03/03/09 10:04:45 AMreport abuse
  • Who is John Gault?
    I never imagined that Obama would be this radical. I didn't vote for this Obamanation but now that we're here, I don't know what I will do. My little business is seriously threatened by this evil man and his cronies' policies- do I just go out of business? What will happen to my employees? Time to go to the Gulch. I can't do this on my own- and there is less and less incentive for the crazy hours, the endless worries that comes with the responsibility of running a business. Is time to fight or time to fly?
    By Elise @ 03/03/09 09:58:35 AMreport abuse
  • Check the Poll
    Overwhelmingly people are voting Yes in that idiotic poll. ABC has to be scratching their heads wondering why so many people are getting the "wrong" answer.
    By Marc @ 03/03/09 09:56:27 AMreport abuse
  • Hugo's Ghost - Why should only the achievers pay?
    Hugo's Ghost, you are right about one thing. NO ONE WANTS TO PAY, That means the LOWER INCOMES, the Middle class and the upper. But Why should only the upper pay for everything? Why not the lower and the middle? The last time I looked they lived in the GREATEST Country too. So why should they reap the benifets and give NOTHING.

    What we need is a flatrate tax. For sake of discussions we will say 10%. If you make less then $15K you pay nothing, Everyone else will pay 10% of the money they make. You make 20K, you pay $2,000. You make 60K you pay $6,000 dollars. If you make 100K you pay $10,000. You make 250K, you pay $25,000. This would be FAIR, EVERYONE would be paying exactly the same percentage but the people who work harder WOULD pay more.

    I have read several of your other post and this is more then likely above your understanding. I expect you to reply like my 8 year old would.
    By John @ 03/03/09 09:40:57 AMreport abuse
  • ha ha ha
    Hugo....

    Sadly, the way it seems to be that no one wants to pay for you to sit at home collecting a gubbament check.

    You eventually will have to get off your lazy a$$ and be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

    It's about personal responsibility. You on the other hand think more of entitilement in which case there is only one thing i feel you are entitled to, a proper burial.

    Hugo's excrement, is this the greatest country in the world because of government of because of the people who made it great? I already know your answer but still wanted to put it out there.

    I was born in a communist country and know what freedom is, sadly, you like many others have no clue to what you are contributing to.
    By Big G @ 03/03/09 09:37:42 AMreport abuse
  • yes, it's true
    This is exactly what my wife and I did last year to reduce our combined income to avoid bumping ourselves into the next tax bracket. She's fairly successful with a national corporation and it helped that I was fed up with being a high school teacher. That was an easy job to leave in order to keep us from being penalized for her promotion last year. Now I'm self-employed doing consulting work to keep myself busy at a lower income.

    Why does our government insist on punishing good behavior and rewarding the bad? Oh, that's right. We're "fortunate" and they're just having "bad luck." If you ask me, playing by the rules only to have your achievements diverted to irresponsible people is the REAL bad luck.
    By crix @ 03/03/09 09:35:18 AMreport abuse
  • Wait a minute..
    Now you're running articles about how the wealthy are looking into ways to avoid paying taxes... and you're okay with it?

    I thought "TAX CHEATS" were a problem! What happened?

    More seriously; of course people will take every available option to pay as little taxes as they can get away with. The priority needs to be Closing the Loopholes so that the tax structure is applied fairly. This story doesn't tell us that the new tax plan is bad--it tells us that there are still loopholes for the privileged that need to be closed.
    By Copyleft @ 03/03/09 09:33:24 AMreport abuse
  • A peek into the abyss
    With the Dow below 7,000, even someone as stupid as Obama has got to be feeling a little tingle (trickle?) down the side of his leg. Oh well, even if Obama can't understand the reaction to his fiscal policies, there are a lot of smart young people fooled into voting for him who are beginning to see the light. My grand daughter, who is a sophomore in college, tells me that she and some of her friends won't be voting for Obama again in 4 years. The abyss has scared some sense into them.
    By Carlos @ 03/03/09 09:32:43 AMreport abuse
  • Wealth Envy
    The more money one makes the greater the wealth envy experienced. Neal thinks only the poor have wealth envy since he doesn't acknowledge that those with money have it too. The concept of 'enough' is lost on the wealthy. It is about ego and self importance. If one thinks they are so important due to the amount of money and stuff they can generate compared to the next American, well, chances are no one will convince them otherwise. We are all equal, regardless of money, as citizens.
    By Robin @ 03/03/09 09:32:31 AMreport abuse
  • the slacker
    Again, no surprises here. What else would you expect from a glorified social worker like Obama? He couldn't possibly understand how much time and effort is involved with creating a business and making it successful. Once you've done it, if you were a socialist before you won't ever go back to that sort of idiocy ever again.
    By stepcousin @ 03/03/09 09:25:51 AMreport abuse
  • Hugo's ghost study your American History
    Hugo's ghost: you need to study your American History. I suggest that you read the "Politically Incorrect Guide to American History", and you will find that the US was founded on individual liberty, low taxation, and low government regulation. Even the founding fathers said that we must be vigilant against tyranny. However, if other country's governments are less intrusive and less taxing, then what is the advantage or privilige to live in the US anymore?
    By John Galt @ 03/03/09 09:25:13 AMreport abuse
  • The poll in the article
    The most interesting thing is that poll within the article. It let's you vote on the behavior of those doing this - are they good, bad, etc. That will be really interesting, of course all the non-achievers are just looking at porn anyways.

    The thing is though, and I fully support people reducing the work they do, I could then see liberals presenting something like the following...
    "Well, the demand for legal services isn't being met by the current supply of lawyers, so I guess we need to grow our government state law schools. And that means we need more of your money. And while we are at it, if we are increasing enrollment, I think we should give all spots we add to under represented groups." So the social engineering continues. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario from where I'm sitting.

    Email your Congressmen (state and national),

    Iowa City, IA
    By Libertarian @ 03/03/09 09:23:44 AMreport abuse
  • whine whine sweet Hugo
    So you are familiar with the word "privilege". That's good, because one of my pet peeves is that a lot of people do not seem to know that word when discussing "their Rights!" But I digress.

    You're mostly correct in your statement with the exception of the first two words. Scratch "Nobody wants" and fill in with "a s**tload of people do not want" - and you've got a valid statement.

    For God's sake, that's what we're talking about here - the poor huddled chip munchin baby makin rim rentin lottery ticket buyin couch ridden masses looking to me for some milk money for their spawn.
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 09:22:59 AMreport abuse
  • Bottom line
    The have nots will soon feel the effect of the have's pulling out of the economy. I submit the Clinton tax plan of 1993 as evidence of that.
    That's the bottom line.
    By Mark @ 03/03/09 09:21:22 AMreport abuse
  • For once I'm first in line
    Sidestepping taxes is exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm 43 and I've been working and paying taxes since I was 13 (after school job and I paid taxes through my dad's SSN until I was 16). I've never been a top earner but I have seen just over 100k in some years. I owned my own business in Atlanta until moving to Savannah.
    Not anymore. Last September I decided to head back to school to weather out this storm. I make just enough (under $1900 for a family of 3) to stay on food stamps and we make up the difference with savings. I hope that things look better in 4 years when I'm out of school.
    Why am I doing this? This country has been asking me for the last many years to not act like an achiever. You are getting what you asked for. I'm not making enough anymore to add to the tax roles.
    My achievement is showing up in the straight A's that I have right now not in my ability to make enough money to send "my fair share" off to the government. You use more government services than I do yet I'm supposed to pay more in taxes than you? My answer is No.
    You asked for it baby, you've got it.
    I hope that many others join me. We can stop this experiment in anti-achievement, anti-capitalism very quickly just by giving today's voters what they want.
    By JC in Savannah @ 03/03/09 09:18:40 AMreport abuse
  • already protecting my income and assets
    When Obama was elected, my wife and I knew that we had to really move in the process to protect ourselves, assets and income. It is amazing that it only took 52 years from the publishing of Atlas Shrugged for it to become reality.
    By John Galt @ 03/03/09 09:18:04 AMreport abuse
  • the survey to vote
    Hey, notice that within the article you can vote on whether or not the people reducing their income are good,bad, etc. That will be the most telling thing of the whole article. Of course the non workers are just looking at porn anyways.

    On a different note, I think this is exactly what liberals want. That way they can make arguments like "We need bigger state law schools because the demand for lawyers exceeds the supply" and then they can put in some of their pet projects related to affirmative action. "Well, if we have to increase the demand, let's make sure it is only to the 'under represented' class." And the social engineering continues....
    By HFL @ 03/03/09 09:16:33 AMreport abuse
  • How not to make money
    During the Carter years my plumbing sub-contractor would close his doors right around July 1st, lay off his men work on his hobbies. He said it would be a "Cold Day In Hell" that he would work 12 months to make the same income he could make in 6 just to keep someone else working just to pay additionanl taxes. Add to that the usual small business issues the headaches were not worth the time. His 2nd comment on that was if I want an hourly rate after taxes thats the same as McDonalads, I'll work at f#$$%%%% McDonalds!
    By Bob @ 03/03/09 09:13:58 AMreport abuse
  • Effect of even higher taxes
    If the taxes increases get pushed far enough down the income ladder, and are big enough, then there is some point at which people will say 'I have no choice but to work harder just to survive.'
    By Glenmore @ 03/03/09 09:13:31 AMreport abuse
  • True Achiever?
    How about you, Hugo? Take up some slack for us!
    By That Woman in Kansas @ 03/03/09 09:13:09 AMreport abuse
  • Funny
    Guess PrezBo didn't think through this too well. It's always a bit harder to increase your income than it is to reduce your current one. Americans are a smart group...we will find a way to sidestep the new tax hikes and PrezBo will be stuck wondering what happened,
    By Chris @ 03/03/09 09:12:19 AMreport abuse
  • My own hobby business
    I have a mostly idle business, a hobby really. I am happy for it to continue to break even... in fact I make sure it does. I don't want the taxes, forms and grief that goes with making the extra money.

    Given the FairTax bill, I would rent more space, hire employees and take on that business I currently either turn down or simply don't pursue. And that's with the current tax basis.

    More regulation and I will do less too.
    By Humbug @ 03/03/09 09:10:13 AMreport abuse
  • well, yeah
    that's the problem with all non-flat-tax systems.

    a stray thought has entered my head at this point: FairTax might be a "Flat Tax" of sorts, but... of course, with FairTax, do you really think it wouldn't turn into a non-flat-tax overnight, with some products being taxed at different rates than other products? Here in the U.K., there's a certain popular cookie (which is completely worth immigrating for) worked hard to be classified as "cake", since cake is taxed differently from cookies.
    By someguy @ 03/03/09 09:08:14 AMreport abuse
  • Atlas shrugging
    It looks like people are finally going to do what is necessary to get the feds attention. Earn less so they seize less.
    By P B @ 03/03/09 09:08:03 AMreport abuse
  • Excuse me, butt ...
    I do not work for you. I do not work for the greater glory of the United States of America. I work for me. If I am not allowed to enjoy the fruits of my labor, I don't labor. That's how it is. Hugo may be different, but I know he hasn't given me any of his money.
    By Jubilation T Cornpone @ 03/03/09 09:04:46 AMreport abuse
  • Cutting Salary to Avoid Taxes
    Exactly. I can still remember as far back as my college days in Atlanta when I worked for AT&T Longlines. There was a manager I knew at the time that actually turned down a promotion because the increase in salary took her across into a higher tax bracket. She complained that she would actually take home LESS after the promotion than before.

    This is exactly what an indexed tax system is all about; punish achievement and transfer wealth from the producer to the non-producer.

    I make about $90K right now myself. Enough to live comfortably but not so high that it generates any attention ... my taxes don't usually hit too hard compared to someone closer to that limit ($200K). Unfortunate - we'll never see productivity rise as long as the tax system punishes achievment.
    By Max Peck @ 03/03/09 09:04:27 AMreport abuse
  • income adjustment
    So, I check out the article, and right there on the first page is a link to cast your vote on "Is it fair to reduce high salaries to sidestep ..."

    What the hell? Ok, now I'm convinced I really do not know the meaning of "fair".

    Do they mean is it fair to me?

    Or do they mean is it fair to the "unfortunate" who are depending on me for their survival?

    I don't know about "fair", but I'll take the hit on vindictive for sure.
    By shuttin down @ 03/03/09 09:02:17 AMreport abuse
  • Reducing income
    Last year my wife (who is self-employed) and I together made $330,000. With Obama's plan looming, she has semi-retired and will accept only an amount of work that keeps us under $250k. We're tired of being the goat.
    By Pete @ 03/03/09 08:59:55 AMreport abuse
  • Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine
    Nobody wants to pay for the privilege of living in the greatest country in the world. I'm sure a true achiever will take up the slack in their businesses.
    By Hugo's ghost @ 03/03/09 08:57:48 AMreport abuse
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